.40 Caliber Hand Grenade

[ErikW]

I was ROing a new shooter today... this guy had a Limited S_I of some sort, all the right gear (except the 170mm mag he used!), I figured he was new to us, maybe from out of town. He was moving nice and safely through the "hallway" of the second stage, when all of sudden, BOOM! It was like somebody fired an artillery piece between the plywood barricades.

He threw his gun upon the explosion. (It landed 6-8 feet away, pointing right at me and some of my squad behind me. ) I checked him out, he was OK, hand hurting. He said he got a face full of gas, he thought his thumb was blown off, and his palm felt like somebody stabbed a knife through it.

I picked up his gun and spent a minute clearing it. Case head finally came out, most of the case was still in the chamber. The gun actually hand- cycled, though it felt like something was broken. (May have been all the dirt in it.) Magazine tube was in the gun. Grams basepad was thoroughly exploded and expelled with the spring. Ammo was on the ground. One round had its bullet pushed way back into the case and a mark on the nose of the bullet. (We tested the crimp on the others; they were OK. This one probably had the bullet blown back by the gas or something.)

He said he used Titegroup. I've never had a case separation, but I've seen one. I don't think this was a simple separation; I think this was a double charge.

It scared the bejeezus out of me and the shooter was positively wigged out. Thankfully, he had full-wrap shooting glasses.

Use good reloading practices! You won't be the only victim of your mistakes.

Wear real eye protection, not fashion sunglasses!

[Jeeper]

That is why I finally broke down and bought a powder check sytem for my 650. I had loaded for about 7 years without one but since I started shooting 40 more I figured I needed one. Glad to hear no one was hurt.

(PS I wont make a comment about your double post there MR Moderator )

[Flexmoney]

Any word on which press he was using?

Which brass? How old it was?

[ErikW]

He said it was brand new Starline. Didn't get the details on the press or his reloading experience.

Sorry about the double post; there will be more of them as I use dial-up exclusively now.

[EricW]

Hence the reason that my next press will be a 650 or a 1050. I'm a double paranoid reloader and it happened to me. I want the charge-checker and I'm going to happily pay for it. All you have to do is *not* blow up one gun and the system's paid for itself.

[Ironman]

Thanks for the post Erik, I’m with Eric as soon as I can afford it I will retire the 550 for 45 ACP only and reload 40 through a new 1050 in a effort to protect my family, my friends, my guns and last but not least myself.

Jim

[tightloop]

You guys shouldn't condemn the 550 'cause you got distracted and double dipped one. It is the indian, not the arrow. Pay attention to what you are doing and don't try for speed loading records and you should be fine.

[Loves2Shoot]

Any excuse to get a 1050 is a good excuse in my book

[lynn jones]

i had one of those a couple of years ago. the gun functioned fine for a couple of more rounds. the barrel must of had some stress cracks, blew the barrel up! i got lucky, i only had to replace the barrel. still an expensive mistake.

i hope that guy gets his barrel checked out.

lynn

[EricW]

You guys shouldn't condemn the 550 'cause you got distracted and double dipped one.  It is the indian, not the arrow.  Pay attention to what you are doing and don't try for speed loading records and you should be fine.

TL,

I'm the most paranoid person I know, and *I* did it. People make mistakes.

10 years of experience in manufacturing has also told me that automated assembly and inspection devices are universally more reliable than their human counterparts over the long haul. The technology is worth the cost. I'm worth it. And so is not blowing up a $2-3K gun. Anybody in the market for a new press to shoot competition should just automatically go for the 650, even if they never attach the casefeeder.

[Jon Merricks]

Powder Checker is the way to go. I still watch the powder checker to make sure it hits the grove everytime.

[TDean]

A while back, I KB'd a gun with TiteGroup, I'm pretty sure it was a double charge.

I was loading at the last minute before a match and my mother called. So there I am on the phone while reloading. I remember having a primer not seat, so I probably cranked on the handle again.

Couple lessons in there.

I recently taped an inspection mirror at an angle to see inside the case before I put a bullet on it.

I mostly did this to prevent a no-charged case from getting in my gun. I pull the trigger too daamb quick to react to a squib....I think (never had one).

He threw the gun? WTF!!

[John Heiter]

In the interests of not throwing a double charge, I made a small modification to my 550B. I drilled a small hole through the top of the press (not the tool head) to accomodate the fiber from a Mini Mag fiber bore light.

Bore Light

The light is positioned so that it shines into the cases just before the bullet goes on but it does not interfere with the working of the press. The 20" fiber is long enough that I was able to mount the flashlight down low and route the fiber down the back of the press so it's not in the way either. The little bit of extra light just makes it a little more obvious when you have too much powder in a case.

John

[Hardball1911]

Just before I took my hiatus two years ago, I had been reloading .45 for about four years. Usually, I would buy new brass every fourth or so outing, so I was starting on some "new" brass. I put the quotes around new, because what I paid for was new brass. What I got was range brass. I bought it from a well respected company and truely feel that they made an error, as they replaced it at no cost to me, but let me keep the "range brass".

Not wanting to waste the brass, I decided I would save the new stuff for a later date. What I got was soon to become detrimental to a brand new singlestack, and my son's and my hands. My son, at 12 years old at the time, was on the range practicing with two of my friends and me. He loaded, made ready and began our "stage" that we were practicing that day and was doing well until about his fifth shot. BANG! Magazine goes to the ground, son standing in total shock and terror, handling the .45 with extreme caution and freaking out all at once. I stopped him, took the gun from him and checked him well for any injury. Thanks to the grace of God alone he was fine. His hands stung badly, but he was fine.

Now, before any of you ask why I let a 12 year old shoot a .45, and if I had double charged it, I did not. Powder check worked, and I was loading down so much you could actually track each projectile while it flew to the target at about 500 fps. I had to even change the recoil spring in that singlestack to about an 8 pound spring for it to run. Jamomatic that it was, he enjoyed shooting it. Until that day.

Having thought that we had experienced the one in a million weak case malfunction, I decided to "shoot out the ammo". Having cleaned the gun, made sure it still worked and nothing was amiss, I discarded the ammo that was currently in the magazines and loaded fresh out of "his" ammo. My very first round fired ruptured and stung me. We were done for the day and every round loaded into that brass was then discarded.

To make this long story shorter, bear in mind what we play with. We play with firearms that produce much pressure. Brass that has been reloaded repeatedly can become more dangerous than anything else. Should you get brass that is not as it was described, do not feel bad about sending it right back to where it came from. His malfunction could have been a double charge, but should you see the shooter again, mention that new brass is better than multiple use brass, and even then it isn't always as advertised. Much QC goes into my reloads after that day...

[bigsaxdog]

i've read(never seen it) that loading down too much causes some kinda secondary combustion and freaky pressures.........

[EricW]

i've read(never seen it) that loading down too much causes some kinda secondary combustion and freaky pressures.........

Urban legend. Totally unreproducable "phenomenon."

[Religious Shooter]

It's a possibility...

http://www.reloadammo.com/liteload.htm

What was the recipe for the .45 loadings that caused the KB's?

[ErikW]

Not even in big volume cases with very slow powders? (e.g., .44 Rem Mag with W296 or H110?)

[EricW]

I believe that Duane Thomas has stated previously that Hodgdon, or some other manufacturer, has not been able to reproduce the phenomenon. Personally, think the "phenomenon" is that ultra-light loads allow one to double charge a case then seat a bullet on top.

[Duane Thomas]

Speer, actually. Though I think every ammo company and ballistician out there has probably tried to replicate the "light load/fast powder/detonation" phenomenon under controlled conditions. Thus far - and we're talking over decades here - they've all failed, and thus any credentialled ballistician will tell you the phenomenon doesn't exist and is instead an excuse for a double charge.

[dajarrel]

Diligence is your friend when reloading. I have started using Titegroup and am amazed at how small a volume of powder comprises a charge. I was used to V340 that would fill a case if double charged. When I started the Titegroup, I discovered that I could put a quadruple charge in a case. (I was experimenting) A double charge could easily be overlooked.

On the other hand, don't become a slave to safety devices. One of my shooting compadres blew up a beautiful Brazo custom job leaving the barrel hood embedded in the shooters arm that stood to his right. He said, " It couldn't be a double charge, I've got a powder check system on my 650" It's never been explained but that "powder checked" round blew up.

The best powder checker is the one run by the grey material between your ears. I have been dumb enough to have loaded 3 squib rounds and fortunate enought not to have double charged any.

just $.02 worth from one who wishes to hold, hear and see his grandchildren someday.

dj

[Hardball1911]

Zero 230 gr. rn fmj

win 231 at 4.7 gr.

large pistol primers

Starline "range brass"

Trust me, I am entirely, and was entirely too careful about the reloading process. At least I was after I saw a friend take out his drywall above his reloader when his primers all detonated at once. THAT is a freaky thing to see.

[Religious Shooter]

Do you remember what primers you used?

That load is .2 grains shy of the starting point for 231 with 230 grain FMJ.

I figure it's either the gun, the brass or the recipe that caused the KB's.

Maybe the ballisticians can give this recipe a try? And tell 'em to do that powder against the bullet thing (by pointing the gun down to put the powder against the bullet and then slowly raising to fire).

[BDH]

In the interests of not throwing a double charge, I made a small modification to my 550B. I drilled a small hole through the top of the press (not the tool head) to accomodate the fiber from a Mini Mag fiber bore light.

Interesting solution. I mounted something called a LittLite on my bench, so I could throw a little more light down into the case before putting a bullet on top (this is in addition to using the Dillon powder check). The Littlite is mounted on a flexible shaft so that you can move it around, and also allows you go move it out of the way when necessary.

[Nolan]

Several months back in "SHOOT" magazine they ran an article about how they blew up 3 .45 long colt handguns with 'lite' loads. Yup, after they blew up the first gun they kept shooting the same batch of ammo and blew up a second single action handgun. As if that weren't enough they continued on and destroyed a third.

The cause was seating 2 bullets into one case! They were using wax lubed cast lead bullets and no brains! The wax built up in the seating die to the point that the freshly seated bullet would be pulled back out of the case. Then they would set a bullet on the next case and seat both the new bullet and the stuck bullet. When they were finished loading they noticed they had 5-6 cases with no bullets..."hmmm musta forgot to seat a bullet in them"

I doubt that's the cause of the .45 ACP or .40 S&W Kabooms because the case is too short, but I suspect that may have been the cause some of the old PPC Kabooms in 38 Specials using beeswax lubed wadcutter bullets. You probably could get 3 bullets into on case if you really tried.

Some other causes for Kabooms besides the ammo, over ramped barrels, and badly tuned trigger/disconnectors that will fire out of battery.