Moon Clip Holder: North Mountain vs. Speed-e

[dagz]

Somehow my choices were narrowed down to these two. I hope to hear your comments soon.

Thanks to all.

Dagz

[AzShooter]

I have the North Mountain and love it. All ammo is close together and my hand always goes to the same place for reloads. It's helped me become faster on multiple reloads. I always wanted something like this. Glade someone finally invented it for me.

It holds eight 8-round moons. If you need more that that why not just get two?

[UW Mitch]

Have you checked out the latest Frontsight and seen James Austin's "Moonclip Server"? He and a couple of his beta testers have been using it for the past few months at the local matches. Basically it's like loading the moonclips into a "magazine" so each time to take one out, a new one is pushed to the opening. You have to see it in the picture in Frontsight. It's really sweet!

~Mitch

[Vericio_Brazil]

I have the North Mountain and love it. All ammo is close together and my hand always goes to the same place for reloads.

+1

I totally agree.

[cas]

I shot one or two matches with a long row of "Shoot a moon" clips, but I found I was wasting too much time searching for the ammo, especially when I grabbed them out of order.

I switched to the post style like the North Mountain and like it much better. The ammo is always in the same spot, and my "dunlap disease" doesn't get in the way of me grabbing (or even seeing) the clips.

Edit to update:

FWIW, I don't use the North Mountain though (4 together). I use the set's of two, made by Jim Pixley. http://www.webspawner.com/users/dude47jp/f...oonclipbel.html

I'm very happy with them. Thinking about getting a single post a getting rid of my last two "Shoot a moon"s.

Edited July 3, 2008 by cas

[Revopop]

I just started shooting a revolver this year, and after Carmoney loaned me Sam's North Mountain I knew I had to have one. It flat out works, and it coudln't be simpler. The Moonclip Magazine in Front Sight looks pretty cool, but I'll wait until it's good and proven before I get one. Looks to be a bit more complicated than the North Mountain.

As to the generic NM holder that CAS uses, it looks to be a direct copy so I'm sure it probably works great. For only $20 more, I'd get the real one from Bob Perdue. He's a very active poster on this forum and an active revolver shooter, so if I ever have a problem I know where to find him.

[underlug]

I shot one or two matches with a long row of "Shoot a moon" clips, but I found I was wasting too much time searching for the ammo, especially when I grabbed them out of order.

I switched to the post style like the North Mountain and like it much better. The ammo is always in the same spot, and my "dunlap disease" doesn't get in the way of me grabbing (or even seeing) the clips.

FWIW, I don't use the North Mountain though (4 together). I use the set's of two, made by... uh.. the man who's name now alludes me. http://www.webspawner.com/users/dude47jp/f...oonclipbel.html

I'm very happy with them. Thinking about getting a single post a getting rid of my last two "Shoot a moon"s.

The beauty of Austin's design is that you pull from the exact same spot every time.

I own his and the North Mountain. I won a Speed-e-rack at the IRC. I will own them all when the Speed-e-rack is delivered. I just saw John Bagakis' at Area one this weekend and he has modified his into something way cool.

I prefer Austin's because you are never searching for a moon clip. If this happens to you a lot, go his way. His needs no modifications. I really liked the North Mountain, too. Both people who produce these products are truly excellent people.

I assume my opinion after I try the Speed-e-rack will be that you can't lose with any of them.

It's a great time to be a revolver shooter

Edited July 3, 2008 by underlug

[cas]

I went with the one's I did because they were sets of 2 instead of 4, it wasn't a cost issue. I figured it would give me more flexibility as far as placement goes, should I need it.

While I mention flexibility... how ridged is the North Mountain? The wide four across design in part scared me a way, thinking it would feel too big/stiff on my belt, especially depending where I wore it.

Edited July 3, 2008 by cas

[Revopop]

The NM actually conforms to your belt. I've never had an issue with the stiffness, and I wear it slightly off to the side of my buckle as I don't have inner/outer belts. It does not interfere with my spare tire.

I'm pretty sure Bob will make them in any configuration you like, I know Carmoney uses a single post 'round back for his LAMR/suicide moonclip.

[Carmoney]

FWIW, I don't use the North Mountain though (4 together). I use the set's of two, made by Jim Pixley.

Not to sound harsh, but I don't particularly appreciate people blatantly stealing Bob's design for commercial purposes. This is at least the second guy I've seen making and selling North Mountain knock-offs.

I guess imitation is the highest form of compliment.

The original North Mountain holder is my choice hands down.

[AzShooter]

It may seem ridged but It feels comfortable the entire day. No movement at all, it really stays where you place it.

Some guys I know still have 10 of the old single moon holders wrapped around them. Hopefully they will never switch and keep their reloads the way they are instead of a simple fix for improvement. Every milisecond counts.

[itchy]

I have both the speed-e-rack and the north mountain. I prefer the north mountain because you can use any moonclip. With the speed-e-rack, you have to use the hearthco clips. (at least for 38 special). I use hearthco clips for icore, but use tk custom for steel, so I don't need to change belts. I also have a 6 and 7 shot 686, so I can use the north mountain for those clips also.

Both are great products and work well. I just wanted one system that I could use for multiple guns. Now if only I could remember which holster to bring...

Seiichi

[dagz]

Thanks for all the replies.

I understand the NM has a 4-post design which is the original. I know recently that it also has a single-post design.

This is not to split hairs but I just want to know your consensus.

[AzShooter]

Just buy a Speed Sec holster and then any of your Smiths will fit in it. I love mine because barrel length doesn't matter. I use it for my 4 inch Model 10, my 627, 625 and even my 617. Get it from Shooter's connection for just over $100 and you can't go wrong.

[cliffwalsh]

Not to sound harsh, but I don't particularly appreciate people blatantly stealing Bob's design for commercial purposes. This is at least the second guy I've seen making and selling North Mountain knock-offs.

I guess imitation is the highest form of compliment.

The original North Mountain holder is my choice hands down.

+ 1

It is one thing to make one for your own use. It is quite another to steal someone's idea and then sell them for profit. In my book, that makes you a thief.

I hope I sound harsh.

[TxD]

Not to sound harsh, but I don't particularly appreciate people blatantly stealing Bob's design for commercial purposes. This is at least the second guy I've seen making and selling North Mountain knock-offs.

I guess imitation is the highest form of compliment.

The original North Mountain holder is my choice hands down.

+ 1

It is one thing to make one for your own use. It is quite another to steal someone's idea and then sell them for profit. In my book, that makes you a thief.

I hope I sound harsh.

I agree.

Just look at all the 1911 beavertail grip safety knockoffs out there.

And how about those moon clip knockoffs:

Edited July 3, 2008 by TxD

[jhgtyre]

I have also seen a variety of posts that hold moon clips for many years before NM or any one else started making the multiple post rigs. There isn't much that is new under the sun.

-ld

[whizz]

This might belong in a whole new thread but in that case I ask some moderator to move it.

Cliff and Carmoney, in my opinion, you are entitled to be as harsh as you wish towards me or anybody else that bothers you. But before you call another man a thief you better be sure you are on the right track with your allegations.

I am not sure if I am considered one of the presumed thieves. Anyway I feel I have to speak up on this matter as I have made moonclip holders that are similar in design to the one from NM. I have already told mr Carmoney that this is not a business for me. Merely a part of my shooting hobby. I have made a few holders and recieved money in return, of course. In the same way as I have made holsters, mag holders, bobbed hammers and other shooting related things for friends and fellow handgunners and also recieved money in return for my work. Any problems with that?

Below you can see a several years old "moonclipholder" based on a idea I got from a fellow wheelgunner who by words described a holder he had seen used. The one he described was made from steel and wood. I made mine from leather and steel. They are pretty heavy as you can understand.

From this design my present holders evolved and are today made from plastics only. Of course I can be accused of stealing the idea to use kydex instead of leather but that would be like bashing one maufacturer of cases because he too is using brass just like his competitors. There is a totally different thing if someone have a patent on a product. Then you would have to make sure not to infringe. If a patent exists there are still no problems making improvements with different solutions based on the same concept.

As I have told mr Carmoney before: "I do not think I or anyone else would find it profitable to hand make clip holders on a when-I-feel-like-it basis." That is how they are made by me. I have also made the statement that I will never sell any holders to anyone in the US and you may believe whatever you like but I do keep my word.

I have never seen or held a NM-holder and can not swear I have not made any solution which would be the same. But I am pretty confident my solutions to the challenges of making a smooth, light and reliable holder differ pretty much from the solutions of the NM, which I of course recommend before anything else.

I am of the belief that competition is good during a match as well during business. Business competition leads to evolution of products and usually ends up as beneficial for the consumer. In the best of worlds both qualitywise and pricewise. If someone prefers a product wich is equal to another but the first has a more attractive price, the second producer have to lower his profit or cut his cost to stay in business, that's how it works. Thought that was what capitalism was all about...

If you did and still like to call me a thief, actually I could not care less.

Conny Forsberg

[jhgtyre]

The tone of this thread needs to come down several notches or the lock will be in place and whatever little comments get made will be removed.

-ld

[hopalong]

I don't know about all the "copy" stuff, but I'll toss in some INFORMATION between North Mountain and California Comp moonclip holders.

I have been using Cali Comp since I started shooting revo in 2003/4/.

Bob handed me a North Mountain 4 post at Area 8 and said he wanted me to use it. I told him I'd give it a "test" and depending on my analysis I'd buy one/it from him if I liked it. He said "OK".

I have been toying around with it since and shot Indiana Section with it so I have a few observations.

1. First 3 reloads are the same for NM vs. Cali Comp. (on the average) So no advantage gained or lost to either.

2. On stages that require more than 3 reloads is where the NM comes to shine. the time to reload vs. Cali comp starts to show. I no longer have to reach around my midsection to get moons since the NM has moons still in the same place you have been getting them from. (+1 NM)

3. The room on your belt is freed up by the NM vs. the Cali Comp. (+1 NM)

4. The weight of the NM is not as much as 8 Cali Comps (or it seems that way). (+1NM)

5. I CAN use different calibers with my Cali Comps (45, 40) when the posts on the NM are too large for me to get my 646 moons on. (+1 CC)

6. The cost of the NM 4 post is $110, and If my memory serves me right the Cali Comps run around 20 bucks each plus shipping so no biggie either way.

7. I know BOB PERDUE, and he's a good straight up guy. I only know Cali Comp as a "shooting supplier" (+1 NM)

8. Talking about the Speedy Rack. I also know Elliot, and He TOO is a straight up GUY. (+1 SR) ,but it is designed around the Hearthco moonclip (the BEST out there) but I know many wheel gunners who are NOT going to buy Hearthco Moonclips but will buy Wilson stamped out ones instead (which likely will work with the speedy rack if modified to go around the O-ring without catching too much). the Speedy rack does require you to reach around your midsection to get to the farther moons, but they are tilted to allow ease of retrieve. (+1 S R)

So here is the results:

North Mountian: +4

California Comp: +1

Speedy Rack: +2

Now take that with a grain of salt, but those are my observations.

I do know this:

I am sending BOB some $$$$ for the 4 post holder he told me to try.

AND

I will send him some Hearthco Moonclips for my 646 and have him make me one for it too !!!!!

For What It's Worth !!!!

Hopalong

[Carmoney]

Business competition leads to evolution of products and usually ends up as beneficial for the consumer. In the best of worlds both qualitywise and pricewise. If someone prefers a product wich is equal to another but the first has a more attractive price, the second producer have to lower his profit or cut his cost to stay in business, that's how it works. Thought that was what capitalism was all about...

Why would anybody bother to invent anything new if he knew the design could be immediately stolen and his price instantly undercut by someone who has made no investment into research and development?

Conny, I take no issue with your original holder made of leather and old bolts. It's no different than various homemade moonclips holders that have been made by shooters for many years. But you posted photos of your current version on this forum several months ago, and--let's be honest--it is very clearly patterned after the North Mountain design and incorporates the key functional design feature which Bob Perdue invented. Your holders "evolved" after you saw a photo of the North Mountain product. I do appreciate and commend your commitment not to compete with North Mountain in the U.S.--thank you for keeping your word on that.

The knock-off holders referenced by cas above are obvious copies of Bob's design in virtually every respect, and they are being sold in the U.S. That just doesn't seem very fair to me. So I would urge forum participants to purchase the original North Mountain product, or go with a completely different design concept altogether, rather than undercut Bob Perdue's ingenuity and effort.

[jhgtyre]

I just don't see anything good coming out of this thread at this point. Closed.

-Larry Drake

The Moderating Team