Lee Factory crimp problems

[jostein jensen]

I just set up my RL550B for .38 supercomp with Dillon dies in the first two stations, a Redding comp seater and a factory crimp.

All was well until I came to set up station 4. How the flying €%#£ does this die work???

I screwed it down until it was a hair away from touching the shellplate, and screwed the inner piece all the way out. And I mean see through all the way.

Pulled the handle and looked at the case.

It looks like the belling was removed, but is this all I need to do?

I tried to screw the inner piece back in, a quarter turn, pull handle, new quarter and so on until it reached the case rim. The tiny tiny tiny appearance of a gap between bullet and case seemed to get smaller and gone with a tiny more adjutment, but on the upstroke the press jams. Its a metallic clunc when I move the handle a bit and start the downwards motion of the shellplate.

I belive this is the inner piece being very very tight around the case, and it appears to do this until I screwed the inner piece far enough out to not touch the case at all.

Isn't the inner piece the actual crimping part of the die?

I tried to insert a already sized round into the inner piece by hand, but it seems to be to tight to enter, but I have not measured it yet.

Do I need that piece at all, or will the sizing part of the FCD do the job? I can't try one of the rounds made in the barrel yet, because the gun arrives on my door sometime next week.

Thanks for any and all advice!

Jostein.

Edited to add, if I give the handle a nudge, it completes the upstroke.

Edited May 9, 2008 by jostein jensen

[HSMITH]

Ditch it and use a normal crimp die.

Crimp right at the case mouth should be 2x case wall thickness + one bullet diameter. Something around .378".

[jostein jensen]

so a normal Dillon crimp does a better job?

Will an EGW U die size all the way down? The Dillon dies I had for 9mm and .40 both left 2-3mm's at the bottom of the cases unsized.

[Jaxshooter]

I use Lee Factory Crimp dies on all my Dillon loaders along with Redding Micrometer Seating dies and EGW U sizing dies. I set up the Lee FC die according to the instructions they provide and have never had a problem.

[HSMITH]

JJ, my opinion is that the FCD is a solution to a non problem, and I WANT my ammo to fail in the case gauge so I KNOW when I have a problem instead of smashing the problems into compliance.

The U-die does go all the way down, and I use them in ALL of my 9mm, Super and 40 toolheads.

[larry cazes]

Full length resizing a fully loaded round, like the FCD does, is not a good solution to poor initial resizing at station one on the 550. It may in fact cause accuracy problems or worse bullet setback and high pressures. For 38super I have never needed the EGW U die and I just use the dillon crimp to remove the belling done by the powder funnel. If you find that the dillon die is not resizing sufficiently, fix with the EGW in station one.

Edited May 10, 2008 by larry cazes

[wide45]

The Factory crimp die should not be needed for jacketed bullets. If you have good brass, and bullets, and your other dies are doing their jobs, it won't do anything, but put a normal crimp on the rounds.

The U die is the way to go for sizing brass all the way, the Factory Crimp die can't do it as nice.

[DougCarden]

I concur with Wide45......You should not NEED the FCD for jacketed bullets, but I find that it is a necessity for lead bullets. In my testing with jacketed and lead bullets I have seen NO degradation in accuracy at 50yds with either crimp die. I do like the fact with my lead practice bullets I dont have to chamber check all of them with the FCD. I also think that using the body of the fcd as a BODY die for loaded rounds is a tragedy waiting to happen. When some gunk gets under the ram and hits the primer and sets off the round...look out...

If jacketed rounds dont gauge, then I would look at your sizing die, or the bullets were seated crooked due to going to fast or not enough bell to the case.

I like to think of the U die as a prep die for progressives....if you have a batch of glocked brass, run them all through the press at one time, just sizing only. Then set up the press and load your ammo. It makes your life much simpler and allows you to smoothly load good quality ammo instead of slopping out powder and having to help feed the case into the sizing die and damaging expensive brass when you forget to pay attention..... Been there done that.....

Good luck learning!

DougC

[G-ManBart]

The Factory crimp die should not be needed for jacketed bullets. If you have good brass, and bullets, and your other dies are doing their jobs, it won't do anything, but put a normal crimp on the rounds.

The U die is the way to go for sizing brass all the way, the Factory Crimp die can't do it as nice.

+1

The Lee FCD can actually cause problems. If the case was resized properly, when the FCD squeezes it, it can actually reduce the neck tension, which is bad. R,

[alellis]

I only use the FCD on rounds that have failed to gauge.

I save them up then put them through the fcd, fire once more and ditch them.

al

[jostein jensen]

Dillon crimp and EGW U will be called in to replace the LFC and Dillon size/decap.

Thanks for advice!

[LoSTViKiNG]

Dillon crimp and EGW U will be called in to replace the LFC and Dillon size/decap.

Thanks for advice!

I just ordered an EGW Undersize Reloading Die, too.

Long story short:

Loading ARES bullets (http://www.wieder-lader.de - search for item# 10120, 9mm, 147 grain) with 3,3 grain of N320 in DAG brass, OAL 28.7mm (~1.13 inch).

As the finished rounds were sort of bulged (middle part, where the bullet is seated) and thus caused problems with the case gauge a colleague recommended the Lee FCD.

Today I noticed that using the LEE FCD causes a very loose bullet in the case: Normally I have to make ~10 firm blasts with the pullet puller to separate the bullet, the rounds processed with the Lee FCD required only one or two strokes. This is not ok, is it?

I have now ordered the EGW U die, too hoping to find a combination of dies (Dillon, Lee, EGW) that will produce reliable ammo.

Thanks for your comments!

[pjb45]

I get a lot of once fired LEO brass. I use both a EGW in the second station and the LFCD in the last on my 1050. It is pretty rare that I have ammo problems in a very tight chambered Nowlin barrel.

That said, I follow directions and I have a reloading guru that I can ask for help.

Prior to buying my 1050:

I had a commercial reloader load my ammo for me for a number of years. My gun is set up for long .40S&W. It turns into a puck a holic if it shoots factory ammo. He gave me a lot of grief about the FCD. He cited article after article about how an improper crimp will ruin the accuracy of the round. This guy loaded everything. Well I turned him into a believer with the FCD.

Edited July 13, 2009 by pjb45

[MemphisMechanic]

I used to use an EGW U-die.

I now use the stock Dillons everywhere except for the seat (Redding comp) and crimp (Lee FCD). I honestly can't recall the last time one of my 9mm rounds has failed due to sizing issues. I find maybe 2-5 rounds out of 1,000 that stick a hair in the Dillon case guage when checking for a big match, mark it, and relegate it to practice ammo. It always feeds in practice.

The EGW did not show me the same results. I'd find brass that had bulged as the bullet was pressed into it, and would hang up badly in the gun. I had set 15-30 of these aside to pull the bullets... But when I bought the FCD, I ran them through it. All but 1 or 2 then passed a gauge and fired 100%.

I'll stick with the FCD. Theortically, the U-die is a better choice. But the FCD shows better actual results for me, and is much easier on the arm.

The U-die resizes further down than the Dillon size-die, but it does not go all the way down. The shellplate will always prevent that.

Set up the FCD just like the instructions say. Run the body down until it kisses the shellplate, and lock it down. Now run a case all the way up into the die. Screw the inner part in until you feel it hit the case mouth. Now crank it in until you get the crimp you're looking for.

Edited July 13, 2009 by MemphisMechanic

[LoSTViKiNG]

Thank you for your comments!

Using the LFC die leads to a (as I learned here in the forum) very low neck tension which gives the bullet a poor seating in the case. As I said, I can pull a bullet with one or two modest strokes of the hammer. This is not a normal (desirable) condition, is it?

Edited July 13, 2009 by LoSTViKiNG

[DougCarden]

Lost, if that is happening, you are using the TAPER crimp as a ROLL crimp, which it is not designed to do. Dont worry, I did it too until I got it figured out.....

Screw the body all the way down or pretty close to shell plate. Now turn the knob out or up so you are not imparting any crimp at all. Pull shellplate down on uncrimped round and hold it there. Now turn knob down until you know you are at the round. Now, From there, lightly adjust the knob until you get your desired crimp. *JUST* take the bell of the case off so it is smooth feeding into the chamber. That is really all you need.

The LFCD is awesome, but there is a learning curve......

Good luck,

DougC

[MoNsTeR]

Just follow the included setup directions.

IMHO the FCD is great and I would never load without one. The U-die I do not like, the opening is not tapered and it slows my production rate on a 550B by about 50% and puts my fingers at risk.

[bkeeler]

I use the EGW die and a FCD never had a problem.(in 40 and 45)

BK

[LoSTViKiNG]

Lost, if that is happening, you are using the TAPER crimp as a ROLL crimp, which it is not designed to do. Dont worry, I did it too until I got it figured out.....

Screw the body all the way down or pretty close to shell plate. Now turn the knob out or up so you are not imparting any crimp at all. Pull shellplate down on uncrimped round and hold it there. Now turn knob down until you know you are at the round. Now, From there, lightly adjust the knob until you get your desired crimp. *JUST* take the bell of the case off so it is smooth feeding into the chamber. That is really all you need.

The LFCD is awesome, but there is a learning curve......

Good luck,

DougC

Dear Doug,

thanks for your comment!

I am aware of how to set the LFC. I don't think that I'm overcrimping.

I tried the following today: Loading one round: resize - swage - prime - powder - powdercheck - seat (no crimping, no LFC, etc.). Then I did one the same way, including the Lee crimping die (but only resizing, no actual crimping). Finally one round all the way, incl. full crimp with the LFC.

Then I pulled all bullets, trying to make consistent strokes of at about the same force.

The best grip within the case had the first round (~ 6 to 7 "normal" strokes). The other ones came out after only one _normal_ stroke.

I then tried a round I loaded earlier with all Dillon dies (no Lee FCD): I performed the LFC on this round, and it was as well pulled very (too!) easily, after only one stroke. Another of these "conventionally" loaded rounds (with all Dillon dies and with no LFC) which I pulled for reference required 10 to 15 strokes.

Therefore I conclude: The resizing, which the Lee FCD performs leads to a looser bullet within the case, at least in my specific set up. (Don't forget the sort of "special" bullets, which are plastic coated lead bullets with a relatively large cannelure which presumably reduces the friction between the case and the bullet.)

I would have sticked to all Dillon dies which produced superb ammo with "traditional" bullets. The new bullets (the ARES) however lead to oversized ammo that got stuck in the case gauge or within the barrel which made me look for a cure.

A bit at a loss here :-(

Edited July 13, 2009 by LoSTViKiNG

[DougCarden]

You may have a bad die. If you havent, I would call Lee and try to send it back for replacement. It shouldnt be doing that. It is specifically designed for lead bullets to make sure they chamber in autos.......

Good luck,

DougC

[mda]

It looks like the belling was removed, but is this all I need to do?

No. the crimp die is also sizing the reloaded round ( bottom insert).

The tiny tiny tiny appearance of a gap between bullet and case seemed to get smaller and gone with a tiny more adjutment, but on the upstroke the press jams. Its a metallic clunc when I move the handle a bit and start the downwards motion of the shellplate.

I have only had this happen when I load New brass.

Isn't the inner piece the actual crimping part of the die?

Yes.

Do I need that piece at all, or will the sizing part of the FCD do the job?

Yes, if you want a taper crimp.

MDA

[benos]

All this talk about "crimping" compelled me to quote:

Crimp right at the case mouth should be 2x case wall thickness + one bullet diameter. Something around .378".

There should not be any "crimping" going on. It should be a called "case straightening die," or flare or "bell-removing die." Or even something cool like "The Straight'ner."

be

[larry cazes]

Therefore I conclude: The resizing, which the Lee FCD performs leads to a looser bullet within the case, at least in my specific set up. (Don't forget the sort of "special" bullets, which are plastic coated lead bullets with a relatively large cannelure which presumably reduces the friction between the case and the bullet.)

I would have sticked to all Dillon dies which produced superb ammo with "traditional" bullets. The new bullets (the ARES) however lead to oversized ammo that got stuck in the case gauge or within the barrel which made me look for a cure.

A bit at a loss here :-(

No Loss. You have just confirmed what some of us have been saying all along. The FCD can reduce neck tension which can lead to bullet setback in the case.

[SA Friday]

The Factory crimp die should not be needed for jacketed bullets. If you have good brass, and bullets, and your other dies are doing their jobs, it won't do anything, but put a normal crimp on the rounds.

The U die is the way to go for sizing brass all the way, the Factory Crimp die can't do it as nice.

+1

The Lee FCD can actually cause problems. If the case was resized properly, when the FCD squeezes it, it can actually reduce the neck tension, which is bad. R,

+2

I have found all of the above to be very true, and this caused me issues with 40 cal rounds, so I ditched the LFCD and just use the EGW U dies now.

[LoSTViKiNG]

Today I have received my EGW U-die.

The die acutally scrapes off some brass, leaving a small burr at the lower part of the case. Is this a normal condition? (See picture, sorry for the bad quality, cell phone cam isn't the best choice for close ups...)

I am using Dynamit Nobel (DAG) brass which obviously has a smaller-than-standard priming hole, as I always have to work off some of the decapping pin to make it fit the hole. I use my power drill and a file. This procedure worked well with the Dillon decapping pins, and it does NOT with the EGW (i.e. Lee) decapping pins. No chance to get any material off the pin...

So, my solution for both was to use the original Dillon resize/decap die in station 2 and the EGW U-die in station 3, replacing the case mouth expander. This minimizes the burr and I can still use my specially prepared (to fit my brass) decapping pins in station 2.

Is this set up reasonable?

I left the swaging rod in station 3 in place, is this ok or does it need the case expander die to function properly? What's that good for anyway? Is this a mandatory operation? (The 650 doesn't have this station at all.)

Thanks for your help!

Edited July 22, 2009 by LoSTViKiNG