When to change guns?

[John Tuley]

A few people now have mentioned getting the USP worked on, and a few more have mentioned reloading. I'd like to address both of those, and some others.

Bruce Gray's outfit will do a competition or carry trigger job on a USP for $300+. Hell, that's almost the price of a new gun! Other than that, finding a 'smith who lists HKs as something they'll work on is hard. If anyone knows any, let me know, 'cause I'm looking!

Reloading is high on my list of shooting priorities (which come somewhere under "eating" and "staying out of debt"). I haven't quite made up my mind as to whether a reloading setup or an AR-15 should be the top of the list (I know, I know ... another thread drift I don't want to start). I think the political wind is a-changin' and I don't want to hit another AWB without a rifle. OK, that aside: I really really really want a press. As in, I am willing to forgo that "eating" thing for a month to get one -- but my wife's not. Yes, I need it to afford to keep shooting. Yes, I need it to have game-power loads. Hopefully (fingers crossed!) this summer will be profitable enough for me to land one. (Gotta find a job, first.) But yes, I am trying to save up for one. I planned to wait until I could afford "the one press I'll ever need," rather than buying one thing now and upgrading later. Looks like that might not happen.

Looks like another good piece of advice is beg, borrow or steal to try out other people's gear. I know lots of guys who have three or four competition guns that they never shoot. Maybe, as has been suggested, a couple extra boxes of bullets, some time pumping the handle on their press, or a six-pack might entice someone to loan me some kit for a match or two so I can decide what division and what platform fit best.

As far as dryfire ... man, I just need to have some more self-discipline. I guess I should stop perusing the forums and get back behind the trigger! I had a bunch of mini-IPSC's set up in my office to give a 12-yard apparent distance, and was practicing a few times a week for a while. Then I had to do campus visits, and the landlord showed the apartment ... I thought it would be bad form to leave those little guys propped up around the house whilst strangers tramped through. Now that school's over (well, in two days anyhow) it's time to get back onto a daily practice regimen.

[Joe4d]

You dont need a super delux progressive press many thousand and thousands of good ammo rounds have been loaded on a Lee single stage press which you can have everything needed for one caliber for about $100.

[racerba]

What I'm looking for (and some people have provided) is advice on how to know when to make that step.

You know when to make the next step is when you consistently perform at a certain level without improvement (or harder to improve) .

[XRe]

So, here's the thing... I agree with Howard, in that if the equipment doesn't fit (for whatever reason), you're going to progress much more slowly, and I don't think there's really any reason to beat yourself up with something that doesn't fit well or run right for you... In Production, about the only way to fix the fit is to change the gun - don't be afraid to take that step. The gun is just a tool For L-10, you can do some types of things, depending on how the fit is wrong. Yes, at high skill levels, you can manage sub-optimal gear and shoot it well - but the less user-friendly the platform is, the more skill it requires to shoot well (even shoot slowly well), and that just leads to frustration and lack of progress if you don't already possess the skills...

Personally, the USPs fit my hands horribly - the controls feel like they're in weird spots, and I find I can't get a high enough grip to allow good control of recoil (the barrel sits higher than a Sig, for me!). It wouldn't be my choice - but that doesn't mean that it can't work for you. If you're going to stick with that platform - you're just married to the HK for one reason or another - trigger job is a must. That will improve the shoot-ability of the gun to no small degree, I'm sure (never handled an HK w/ a trigger job, so I can't say firsthand).

I completely agree regarding reloading for .45 - the factory ammo is damn hot (and damn expensive). In the end, you won't save money on ammo - you'll just be shooting more rounds Nothing wrong with that, though, is there?

Realize this - its very hard to immediately just "know" when the platform is holding you back. The easiest way to tell is to pick up a different platform and shoot it. If you immediately perform the same or better with an alien (to you) platform, chances are that platform suits you better. But there are some generalities that can be drawn based on experience - that's why you see the "HK bashing" you describe here. The collective wisdom is that is not a gun that's well suited to our sport - ie, capable of being driven accurately at high speed by the average Joe.

Stick will Dillon The SDB and the 550 are fine presses, and will load you lots of nice ammo....

Re: reloader or rifle.... I know how you feel, man

[boo radley]

You dont need a super delux progressive press many thousand and thousands of good ammo rounds have been loaded on a Lee single stage press which you can have everything needed for one caliber for about $100.

<shudder> Plus there's all the other crap to buy -- tumbler, calipers, scale, setting up a bench, etc. , etc. The upfront price of a Square Deal quickly vanishes.

I just don't see how this is working with factory .45acp ammo, if money is as tight as you say.

Winchester White box at WalMart is running, what -- $19.95 for 50, give or take? So a club-level USPSA match will cost $60 in ammo, alone (round count of 150). If you're shooting one match a month, and just *1* decent live-fire practice session a month, you're still close to $200 in ammo alone.

It seems you either have to figure out a way to reload .45acp, which may or may not be possible given the constraints of apartment living, or else sell the H&K and buy something like a used Glock 17 or XD, and a case of 9mm; both are used by competitors at the highest levels.

[John Tuley]

Factory ammo is only still working because I stocked up in December, when Blazer Brass was only $14/50. I've been rationing myself and living off that thousand rounds (or so) until now.

The collective wisdom is that is not a gun that's well suited to our sport - ie, capable of being driven accurately at high speed by the average Joe.

I know! People have been telling me this for months. My only response is that I bought my USP as a combat (self-defense, I'm not LE) handgun, and later a friend got me to go to a USPSA match. It's most definitely not suited for the game -- 12 round mags aren't enough to shoot in Limited, but the Tactical isn't legal for Production (and of course .45 isn't suited for production unless you are handloading, etc.). So I'm stuck in L10, and competing against people who are "forcing themselves to learn to reload," as one shooter put it. I don't have a magwell, I don't have a trigger job (yet), and it does sit a little high, yeah. I'm still at the "shoot what you brung" level as far as equipment goes, except that I've been doing that for a year.

One of the things that does worry me is having to unlearn techniques from the HK. For example, I've found that if I prep the trigger, my shots tend to go wild (and after reading the HKPRO forums, this doesn't seem to be an uncommon problem). But if I make a single smooth pull from zero pressure to break, my accuracy goes up. Obviously, this is not a problem on lots of other guns; otherwise, prepping the trigger wouldn't be a standard technique.

OK, so here's another pointed question to help fuel the debate:

Of the two, which should be my first purchase: "game" gun (9mm, most likely bone stock, XD/M&P/CZ/Glock/whatever fits right) and keep running factory ammo, or a reloader so that I can keep shooting the .45 until I'm more consistent? As far as I can tell, the total startup cost (gun+mags+holster+cleaning gear vs press+scales+calipers+tumbler+...) will be about equal, even with (or maybe only with) a cheaper press than this forum's favorite.

[Joe4d]

There is no other "crap" to buy. You dont need a tumbler (wipe off your brass clean it in the kitchen sink dry it on a towel) The Lee kit comes with a scale or you can use the scoops. You dont need calipers (use a factory round and eyeballs to set the OAL and your pistol barrel as a check guage. You also dont need a bench. I had my Lee press and powder measure mounted on a 2 foot long 2X6. that and two quick clamps to clamp it to a table or desk and I was ready.

[Joe4d]

An interesting thought, Why do you consider a weapon that sucks for shooting holes in cardboard quickly and acurately and you cant aford to practice with suitable for self defense ? The only way I would would be if I was trading size, weight , and concealability for speed, capacity and acuracy. Something you definetly arnt doing with a USP.

[XRe]

The collective wisdom is that is not a gun that's well suited to our sport - ie, capable of being driven accurately at high speed by the average Joe.

I know! People have been telling me this for months.

My point is that I don't think you're seeing what you referred to as "H&K hate"...

My only response is that I bought my USP as a combat (self-defense, I'm not LE) handgun, and later a friend got me to go to a USPSA match.

You're not the first person to tell me that they bought a USP45 as a "combat" gun... then for various reasons, they never shoot it, or they can never master shooting it well. If you're planning on being in combat, buy that rifle Otherwise, Joe makes a solid point regarding choices made for a carry/duty/"combat" gun - I'm not piling on here, but its something to consider seriously.

I'm still at the "shoot what you brung" level as far as equipment goes, except that I've been doing that for a year.

There's nothing inherently wrong with that Do it for as long as you want/need to...

One of the things that does worry me is having to unlearn techniques from the HK. For example, I've found that if I prep the trigger, my shots tend to go wild (and after reading the HKPRO forums, this doesn't seem to be an uncommon problem). But if I make a single smooth pull from zero pressure to break, my accuracy goes up. Obviously, this is not a problem on lots of other guns; otherwise, prepping the trigger wouldn't be a standard technique.

I don't think that's a problem with the platform. That sounds more like a lot of folks (you included) have a flinch or otherwise deficient trigger control That's a common phenomenon - almost certainly, you're tending to whack the snot out of the trigger after prepping it, whereas you're tending to be a bit smoother as you pull through the takeup...

Of the two, which should be my first purchase: "game" gun ... or a reloader

I can't tell you how to answer that. Are you wanting to stay w/ the HK, or are you looking for enough reason to justify going to something else? What do you want to do? What's your goal in this? Knowing that goes a long way towards determining the right choice

I can tell you, based on my experience, if I were making the choice for me, I'd get a different gun (remember above, the USP doesn't work in my paws very well, but in addition, if the platform isn't working for me, I'd rather change that and get a higher quality of effort out of me and my platform short term, than have copious amounts of ammo for something that doesn't fit me well and makes it hard to perform). I would recommend staying away from the XD platform. Look at the M&P and the Glock as the primary stops for something that's conceptually similar to the USP - the CZ is another fine choice. In addition, if you go about it in the right fashion, you may decide that your "game gun" serves you better than the USP45 as a "combat" gun (realize that the primary role of a "combat" gun for most civilians is as a paper weight on the hip - and if you need to employ it, you want the thing you can shoot the best at your side - hitting the target accurately under duress is what makes the difference, not .45 vs. 9mm....).

You can buy 9mm for around half-ish the price of factory .45, so you should be able to double your ammo budget (Atlanta Arms reloads are around $10/50 delivered, right now - that's as a worst case relative to other ammo sources...).

Solely my opinion, of course, and offered based on what you've presented in this thread. If you can offer some feedback on your goals in your shooting, and in this thread, maybe I can help some more... ???

Dave

[John Tuley]

Well, this thread has asked more questions than it has answered. I'm not complaining: you guys have gotten me to think about some things that I just wasn't facing before. As such, my original goal for this thread is pretty much moot for now; there are too many things I don't know about myself and my motivations to decide what to do.

Thanks, Joe4d for the ideas on low-cost reloading setups. Thanks, XRe for asking pointed and tough questions. I'm going to have to think about some of this stuff before I have good answers.

The only thing I can really define for sure is my goal as a shooter. At a high level, I want to learn everything I can about pistolcraft, as well as rifles and shotguns eventually. I want to start doing some bullseye in addition to the practical sports, maybe try IDPA, everything. I'd be intrigued to someday try cowboy action. I'd like to do 3-gun, benchrest, clays ... anyway, I'd like to try everything at least once. Someday.

In the scope of USPSA, my immediate goal is to settle myself down to the point where my stages are more consistent. Having one classifier come in around 25% and another at 50% on the same day just doesn't seem like a good place to be. I'd also like to get out of D class, but mostly because I hate being on the bottom of the pile. Gotta start somewhere, but you don't hafta stay there. Long-term, I'd like to keep improving. I don't really care if I ever make a certain ranking, as long as my scores keep improving. (Of course, eventually you run out of room to improve in a given class ...)

In order to become more consistent, what I need most is practice. What I'm unsure on is how to get the best practice. I'm working Steve Anderson's drills. I'm reading the forums, particularly the training sections. I'm trying hard to evaluate my weaknesses and improve them. Unfortunately, I'm not very good at all of that. Of course a new gun won't fix the situation; the main problem is me.

Am I hanging onto my USP for the wrong reasons? Could be. I think maybe I was overlooking some of the problems I have with the gun, or assuming that they're just there because I haven't turned down the suck yet. I may have spent too much time reading the wrong websites when choosing the pistol (yes, it is a mall ninja favorite). OK ... these are things I wasn't considering before. Perhaps the best thing is to go and do a better job figuring out where I am and where I want to go, rather than asking a bunch of people how to get there -- without even telling them where that is.

Thanks again,

-- John.

[EricW]

If you're gonna a be a 45 guy, you need a Square Deal from Brian. Otherwise, you need to switch to 9. Either way, the payback period is very short. You'll cut your ammo costs in half or more immediately. That's easily $100 to 200 / mo if you're shooting a bit.

If money's really tight, why not pal up with the local IPSC shooter and see if they'll let you borrow/rent their loader? A six-pack of something good usually works wonders.

[ChrisStock]

If you're gonna a be a 45 guy, you need a Square Deal from Brian. Otherwise, you need to switch to 9. Either way, the payback period is very short. You'll cut your ammo costs in half or more immediately. That's easily $100 to 200 / mo if you're shooting a bit.

That was my reasoning as well. I borrowed $1100 out of my 401k ayear ago to get everything I needed and I don't regret it. {Iknow I know...stay the *&^% out of that thing!} The repayment terms were childishly simple, and now all of the money is back where it belongs and I can shoot as much as I need or want to reload.

Lot's of good steering ideas and questions in this thread, though. You might get as lucky as I did when I came here, as forum member L9X25, a local shooter, semi adopted me for all of my questions here. he has been a regular well spring of advice over the last year, even when I dipped a leaky bucket of a question into the well, I got all I could drink.

Best of luck!

[Dustdevil21]

John,

As I have read through this, my question is "Are you having fun shooting the matches with the equipment you are using, and are you learning anything?" I have asked hypothetical questions as to which equipment should I use to the board and I have always come back with it is myself that has to make the decision.

I came into this game with a Glock 22 I bought from a friend that needed money. I polished up the trigger, put some new sights on it, and bought some extra magazines. I actually shot my first two classifiers in the "B" Class range. But I was hooked and wanted something better so I bought a Glock 24, the mags with more capacity, and a race style holster, my scores came down because I was trying to keep up with the better shooters on my squads. With the G22 I shot the production class forcing myself to make the mag changes, and think my stages through a little better. Plus being a new shooter to the sport, I didn't want to be the shooter everyone got nervous about when they get to the line because of the way they handle themselves.

My problem, I don't have the time and sometimes the energy to get out there and practice like I should to advance myself up the ladder. But oh how I would like to be up in the "A" or "B" Classes. But the only practice I seem to get is the actual matches I shoot and then because of my schedule in the summer, I usually miss all of the summer ones. Yes this sport is expensive, and can take a lot of time and energy especially if you have the desire to be a "B" Class shooter or above. But for the recreational shooters, I think the whole thing wraps up to having fun and learning. If we aren't having fun, then we don't need to be out there.

So I guess in all of this babble, and as you have noted, you have to make the decisoin on what you want out of this sport. If you like shooting the HK, then by all means shoot it and learn to shoot it well, especially if you are using it as a defense gun. But if you can part yourself from it, then get something that you can shoot in multiple divsion (Production, Limited, Limited 10) and in a caliber you feel comfortable in using as a defensive weapon. You can spend thousands of dollars in new equipment and reloading gear (as I have found out also) but without the dedicated practice you won't make it to the next levels.

Sorry for the rambling!

[Taildraggerdave]

Should I keep shooting my stock, not-right-for-USPSA gun for now, and just keep focusing on fundamentals, or switch to (for instance) a tricked-out XD9 with ~2lb, next-to-no-travel trigger? Will that still help my shooting with the HK, which is my primary defensive weapon? (Of course, I will continue to practice it with at the range, no matter what.)

Thanks,

-- John.

Well....

That's sort of what I did. I've been into IDPA for almost a year and USPSA for 3 months now. I originally bought a 1911 Kimber and ran that in CDP class at Marksman level. Already had the Dillon 550B and can reload to power factor, etc. Things were going along ok with 4 matches per month and some dryfire being my only practice. Would typically finish mid class with the 45. Similarly, could also do pretty well shooting steel challenge with a 22.

I bought an XD9 Tactical at the end of December and purchased all of my trigger parts in early January. Obviously the 9mm in minor power factor is much easier to handle than the 45 in major power factor but almost overnight, I began to win my new (ESP) class at the local matches. Just got bumped up to Sharpshooter in ESP last month.

My XD is just as you say, 2# trigger, fiber optic front sight, etc. It just seems to fit my hand better, returns to point of aim better, etc. I will typically still run the 45 for one of the matches during each month and I don't do very well with it. Run the remaining matches with the XD and things go much better. Just bought a 625 REVOLVER so that is going to change things up even more. But, even with the limited after-match practice on the 625, I seem to run that better than the 1911.... can't overlook individual ergonomics. What works for me may not work for you, etc.

Someone mentioned earlier about trying as many firearms as you can prior to making your decision. That is really good advice. That and shoot as much as you can.

Take care,

Dave

[G-ManBart]

Having doubt about your equipment is a bad thing. You want to KNOW that you're not being held back by anything so that all you have to do is work on fixing your weaknesses and improving your strengths.

It's not that your HK is a "bad" gun, it's just not exactly what will work best for many people. If it was, there'd be a lot more people using them. I'd find a Glock or M&P (whichever fits your hand better) in 9mm and shoot it as much as possible, which will be a lot more than you'll be able to do with a .45 if the budget is tight. That's assuming you'll shoot Production. If you really want to shoot L-10, either of those two guns in .40 would be better. The ammo will cost more, but you can still shoot major and not give up lots of points. You'll get better faster in direct proportion to how much you shoot....dry fire can do a lot, but it can't do it all.

I think a lot of people have missed something here. Even if a GM could shoot GM scores with the HK, would they be as high as they would with their preferred gun? I doubt that very seriously. It's almost a sure bet that even with practice, they'd have slightly lower scores....or they'd be switching guns pretty quickly. R,

[h2osport]

The first gun I purchased specificaly for ISPC was a used Glock 17 with one 17 round mag for $300. Blade tech doh holster for $69 and uncle mikes mag carriers for ?$ and 1.5" belt for $10. That was a great rig to compete in production and learn fundamentals. If you look around at used Glocks you can probably find a used G17 in 9mm or a G22 in 40s&w for around $300. With the G22 you could shoot production, limited 10 or limited. Save all of your brass to reload in the future. The more IPSC you shoot, the more IPSC you want to shoot, and it will be nice to have some brass to reload when you get a press.

I tried to set up my HK usp 40 to shoot in IPSc. In order to use the factory jet funnel/magwell, you have to buy mags at $68 each. I will stick with my 17 round glock mags for $14 each.

Just my $.02

[kevinj308]

My .02, get a gun that's competitive. If you're not you won't have as much fun and you won't shoot as much. No sense bringing an truck to a car race, it just isn't built for it.

[steveknapp]

Random thoughts:

- What are you in this for? Fun? To see yourself improve? Both seem possible with your current setup, if you let it. If you're not sure, and the gun you've got you believe will hold you back, then it will.

- Do what you want within your budget, not someone else's. There is a lot of cool stuff to be had to make life better. For me at least, how much I "need" can be tied to how much I can spend.

- I'd sit down and do some math on the cost of ammo and the cost of guns. Make a budget for how much you can and will shoot. Figure ~$500 for a new M&P9mm with four mags, add $100 for holsters and mag pouches. Now if you're spending $200 a week on 45ACP, and you can get 9mm for half that (which is about right near me). Then in 6 weeks, you'll have paid for the M&P just in factory ammo savings alone, sooner if you sell your existing gun. Think about it, decide what you want to do, but make smart choices about the recurring costs.

- Reloading gear? Does spending more time reloading beat not shooting? The Lee press seems to get the job done for many. Will you futz with it more and get frustrated with it more? Maybe, but a Pro1000 or Loadmaster can be had for way less than the Dillon stuff. It may be a throw away press, but will it get the job done for the next few years? Even a single stage might do the trick if you've got the time. Do the math ( http://10xshooters.com/calculators/Handgun..._Calculator.htm ) and decide for yourself.

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: If you think it is holding you back then it is. Your mindset will do alot for your shooting. Saying that I would switch to a Glock 34 and shoot alot of 9mm. Next I would start reloading so start saving brass now. The Glock will rethink your shooting and will actually help with your other pistol. Sounds strange but it worked for me. I shoot a Glock and 1911/2011 pistols and shooting one helps with the other. It makes me think about the grip angle and trigger control for each pistol. It may not make you the best shooter out there by shooting different pistols but it sure is fun ;-) Thanks, Eric

[GIO]

New gear may or may not make you a better shooter. I'm sure any of the pro's could make most gear sing. Some of the fun of our sport/hobby is in the gear alone so if you can afford it, get what you want and give it a go. Most of us have tried, sold, re-bought a good deal of equipment and are still tinkering. Have fun with it and understand you may never find the "perfect set-up"

my .02

[vluc]

I started production with a SIG 226 9mm. Shot it for a year or so, and while it was an incredibly accurate pistol at the indoor range, the grip size and other issues (trigger pull, DA first shot) made it impractical for me after a certain point. I was having fun, but not doing well otherwise, and made the decision - rightly or wrongly - that I needed something else for me to advance.

I switched to a Glock, it fit my hand better, functioned better for me, and that was enough.

Now all these years later, knowing what I have learned, I think I could go back to the SIG and be successful with it. But at that time, I made a choice for what I thought was good for me, not what anyone else thought. I got much the same of what you have gotten - shoot what you have, practice enough with it and you will be fine, etc.

I thought my equipment was holding me back, and in a sense it was, as it was not helping me get the enjoyment that I was wanting to get or achieve what I wanted to achieve. For me that was enough.

[SA Friday]

I thought my equipment was holding me back, and in a sense it was, as it was not helping me get the enjoyment that I was wanting to get or achieve what I wanted to achieve. For me that was enough.

That pretty much sums it up right there IMO.

[racine]

Amazing the great responses you've received here to help you. So "...I knew there would be a lot of HK hate here..." did not make sense to me. If your from the HK forum, you might be projecting. You should consider the format you've chosen to use your USP tact in. It is not a trigger that cannot be mastered but as you see here, it is just not ideal or competitive for this use. It can be overcome to some extent but you will still be limited in competition with other fellas using glass triggers. I used the USP in lim. class briefly even finding high caps to hold 16 +1 of 45 but the trigger is long, reset is long, overtravel bad, sights mediocre, recoil somewhat unpredictable, thumb safety not that ergonomic, magzines prone to cracking and aftermarket stuff nil. That being said your only recourse is practicing on the range with appropriate power factor and cheaper ammo and learning the tacts peculiarities. I personally love the gun but I too realized it's limitations and found Bruce Gray. I would highly recommend his improvements for your pistol realizing that gunsmithing is a costly venture, relatively speaking of course(even for glocks-see Vanek triggers). At $300 his modifications are practically magical and a bargain. I too think you should consider getting a progressive press if you plan on moving forward in this hobby or you'll spend an enormous amount of time shopping for ammo at cheap prices when you need it the most. The most fun in using a USP is having a match/B.Gray trigger, good FO sights, jet funnel, large capacity, fast holster and coming out on top in your class. If, and I say if, you want to keep your USP, go see Bruce. Everyone I've sent to him is just amazed. If not then lose that sissy tactical black brick and get yourself a glock

[John Tuley]

This thread has indeed been great; I've gotten some replies that helped directly address my original question and some more that made me rethink my assumptions and ask myself new questions.

I've stumbled on Bruce's site and fully intend to have my pistol worked over, when I've got $300 to spare. I do have a fiber front that was custom-made by a local smith out of a Dawson blank to match the factory height of the USP-T's post. I enjoy shooting the USP, because it's I enjoy shooting and it's what I have to shoot. I tried an XD a couple times, and I've tried an M&P for one match . . . I didn't really enjoy them any more than the USP, but I never got to know them, either.

What I think I'm going to do for now is shoot a Beretta 92FS that my dad offered to loan me for a while ... the stock trigger is worse than my USP's, but at least it only eats 9mm instead of .45. I may eventually get it worked on (I'm thinking of saving up and sending to David Olhasso for the full package) but it's my dad's pistol and whatever I do to it is essentially a gift to him. Which would be nice to be able to do, but money is tight right now, so I'm just happy to not have to buy .45 so often! The only big downside of the 92FS is that the front sight is part of the slide (it's interchangeable on some of the Elites/etc. but not the basic FS) so putting fiber on would require machining the slide, and I have no idea how expensive that would be but I'm assuming it's a little out of my range for the moment.

Longer-term, I'm considering buying my own Production gun sometime in the next few years, if I can get the bucks in the bank. Just from Internet research, I want to try out an Angus-customized CZ . . . cheaper than a tricked out XD but I've read as many good things about both platforms so it seems like it might be worth a try. (I've shot a couple Glocks, without much luck . . . the grip doesn't feel natural in my hands.) Someday, I'd like to get back into Limited properly, and eventually 3-gun as well. For now though, I think I'll stick with "what I've got," especially now that I have a 9mm to play with, since even looking at guns on the 'net makes my wallet whimper with fear!

To all who've posted in this thread, I'd like to say thank you for your input and your help in getting me to think about the problem in more than one direction. That's what I love about this place---ask a (seemingly simple and direct) question, get thwacked upside the head with a clue stick. I'm not sore, I needed it . . . and I just hope I've learned my lesson(s).

-- John.

[lugnut]

I didn't read all the posts but here is my advice:

You change when you lose confidence in the gun.

This can happen for multiple reasons:

-Failures in practices/matches

-Realize that it doesn't fit

-Realize that the ergonomics just don't work for you anymore (trigger, controls, etc)

-When you realize you shoot another gun better

Sometimes change for the sake of change is healthy IMO. Sometimes it's just the right thing to do. My history:

Started with Sigs- reliable, accurate but felt too chunky after a while. DA/SA and long reset got to me.

Moved to M&P- felt good, shot ok- but felt like I wasn't accurate with it.

Moved to S&W 1911- loved the gun, accurate as I could want. Had some reliablility issues that festered for too long.

Current- G34- realiable as hell, accurate and fun to shoot. I little like a brick to hold but I'm happy for now and I shoot it the best of any gun I've used.

Edited July 11, 2008 by lugnut