USPSA MULTIGUN Shotgun capacity rule?

[gl]

It the competitor limited in the capacity that the shotgun will hold or just the number of shells the competitor can start with in the shotgun in each division?

Thanks!

Guy Hawkins

Edited April 26, 2008 by gl

[Doug H.]

It the competitor limited in the capacity that the shotgun will hold or just the number of shells the competitor can start with in the shotgun in each division?

Thanks!

Guy Hawkins

According to the 2008 Shotgun Rules App. D2 there is no limit on magazine length, just the number of rounds loaded.

Doug

[gl]

It the competitor limited in the capacity that the shotgun will hold or just the number of shells the competitor can start with in the shotgun in each division?

Thanks!

Guy Hawkins

According to the 2008 Shotgun Rules App. D2 there is no limit on magazine length, just the number of rounds loaded.

Doug

I thought so, thank you Doug for confirming that!!

[Brian Payne]

But then comes the problem of who is going to keep count of the rounds. Some matches say a max. of 9 rounds in the gun - ever (for tactical). If your tube allows 9 in the tube and you lose count, you could be bumped to open for having more than 9 in the gun.

Seems it would be much easier on eveyone to just say "9 rounds at the start - after the beep load as many as you want". All the RO would have to do is have the squad pre-load the mag tube with 8 rds. prior to the start of the COF. At the "load and make ready", each shooter just load one in the chamber. Faster, easier, and no one needs to keep count of any rounds during the COF. The '07 RM3G is a perfect example.

Edited April 26, 2008 by Brian Payne

[Religious Shooter]

Or you can have a tube that only holds 8.

As far as I am concerned there isn't an advantage in being able to reload more than 8. It is SHOOTING more than 9 without doing a reload... that is the advantage.

If you suspect the competitor fired more than nine rounds without dropping to do a reload... use the timer to see if he/she did so. It's abundantly obvious if a shooter does a reload or not.

[D.Hayden]

I don't think the timer is allowed to be used like that...

Or has the rule changed?

[j2fast]

As far as round counting goes it would be no different than what the RO's have to do in Production for handgun matches (10 in mag, 11 in gun to start). I would venture to guess that most of the folks where its legal are shooting with mags that hold more than 10 so there's always a chance that someone may have more than 10 in a mag after the start.

[mlmiller1]

I would think it would be lots harder to keep track of reloads in the shotgun because you can load 1 or more each time you load, you don't have to load 9 each time. The production, lim/10 is easy to count because the mags hold 10 & you either put in 10 or you don't. If you shoot a few rounds, reload a few rounds, shoot a couple, load 3, shoot 4, load 2, how can the ro keep track of how many shots fired much less how many rounds were in the gun? Of course there are situations where you could tell but not in a moving/loading/moving/loading etc. stage.

MLM

[Religious Shooter]

If you shoot a few rounds, reload a few rounds, shoot a couple, load 3, shoot 4, load 2, how can the ro keep track of how many shots fired much less how many rounds were in the gun?

As long as the guy doesn't shoot a continuous 10 rounds without doing a reload I wouldn't worry about it.

[Religious Shooter]

I don't think the timer is allowed to be used like that...

Or has the rule changed?

During Standard stages with fixed time and for other stages with fixed # of rounds it's been common practice from my experience to use the timer as reference if needed.

[Neil Smith]

IPSC shogun matches have used this rule in the standard divisions for about 3 years now without any problems, simply load 9 at the start then after the start load as many as you like, dont forget the clock is running.

We have not seen standard guns at matches that hold any more than 10 or 11, 9 being the most common to keep the guns short & fast handling, its easy for the RO's & has made hardly any difference to the original intension of the standard divisions.

N

[StealthyBlagga]

...As far as I am concerned there isn't an advantage in being able to reload more than 8. It is SHOOTING more than 9 without doing a reload... that is the advantage.

I shoot exclusively under IMGA rules. My Tactical shotgun has a 10+1 tube on it. I start stages with only 9 loaded, of course, but often (in maybe 40% of stages) I find it to be an advantage to stuff in extra rounds and be able to fire more than 9 from one position. Sometimes it allows me to shoot a stage in a different and more efficient way, other times it just gives me that extra shot to make up a miss without having to do a standing reload. Sure, the gun is a little longer, but I don't feel its that big of a disadvantage. Mag capacity greater than 8 +1 is a significant advantage IMHO.

[Neil Smith]

...As far as I am concerned there isn't an advantage in being able to reload more than 8. It is SHOOTING more than 9 without doing a reload... that is the advantage.

I shoot exclusively under IMGA rules. My Tactical shotgun has a 10+1 tube on it. I start stages with only 9 loaded, of course, but often (in maybe 40% of stages) I find it to be an advantage to stuff in extra rounds and be able to fire more than 9 from one position. Sometimes it allows me to shoot a stage in a different and more efficient way, other times it just gives me that extra shot to make up a miss without having to do a standing reload. Sure, the gun is a little longer, but I don't feel its that big of a disadvantage. Mag capacity greater than 8 +1 is a significant advantage IMHO.

It can be an advantage to fit one or two extra shells after the start signal when there is movement required before the first shooting position is reached, but this is only a small advantage & on a very limited number of stages in any single match, IPSC rules do not allow more than 8 targets to be available from one position so this limits the effect of longer tubes.

N

[bigbrowndog]

Mr, Smith its quite obvious you have no idea what you are talking about, us colonials KNOW how to game stages and if it was an advantage to have more bullets in our guns then we would......................Oh,!!!!! wait I do.

Don't let out ALL the secrets,...................... between you and Mikey we only have a few left.

See you real soon buddy, don't bugger up that nova too bad till i get there.

Trapr

[StealthyBlagga]

It can be an advantage to fit one or two extra shells after the start signal when there is movement required before the first shooting position is reached, but this is only a small advantage & on a very limited number of stages in any single match, IPSC rules do not allow more than 8 targets to be available from one position so this limits the effect of longer tubes.

N

I agree. Under IMGA rules, one often encounters target arrays greater than 8 shots... if it is an advantage to shoot 11 targets from one position, then an 11-shot gun saves me a standing reload. When you have this capability, its amazine how often you find an opportunity to utilize it.

[bigbrowndog]

RS, I do believe that using the timer for something other than keeping time is NOT allowed under the rules,IE: reviewing stuff.

however that being said it doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Someone familiar with the rules, could protest and it would be a viable protest.

the reason for it, I figure is that there is not way of knowing if the timer picked up something other than the actual round going off. which is also why I cringe every time I see RO's wait to look at targets or other things before recording the official time.

Trapr

Edited April 28, 2008 by bigbrowndog

[gl]

'which is also why I cringe every time I see RO's wait to look at targets or other things before recording the official time.'

Trapr

No kidding!! I was at a match where I saw and RO click the timer belt friction loop (the thingy that holds it to your belt) after the shooter stopped and make the guy have way more time than what he ran, I thought there was going to be a fist fight. It was kinda like a 'you ain't winning unless your cheating' thing. I always try to show the shooter, right after they stop, the time (unless they are doing something unsafe or something more important which needs my attention).

Guy Hawkins

[bgary]

It can be an advantage to fit one or two extra shells after the start signal when there is movement required before the first shooting position is reached

Just to clarify - the USPSA rules say "maximum of 9 rounds loaded" (11 rounds for Open division). That means at any time during the course of fire, not just at the start signal.

So, if one were to start with 9 in the gun, and stuff a couple more in before the first shooting position, that would result in more than 9 rounds loaded, and is not legal in USPSA multigun.

It doesn't matter how long the tube is... just don't have more than 9 in the gun at any time.

$.02

Bruce

PS - there's no rule that I'm aware of that says an RO can't use the timer to keep track of shots. It actually happens all the time in Production, Revolver and Single-Stack.

[Neil Smith]

Mr, Smith

Don't let out ALL the secrets,...................... between you and Mikey we only have a few left.

See you real soon buddy, don't bugger up that nova too bad till i get there.

Trapr

Hi Mate

I hear ya

The Nova is going real well & will be nicely "run in" by the time you get over here !

N

It doesn't matter how long the tube is... just don't have more than 9 in the gun at any time.

$.02

Bruce

I know USPSA has its own seperate rules from IPSC shotgun rules but this one must be difficult to police for the RO's in fact I would think its almost impossible, a determined individual could certainly "game" this rule on a long fast moving stage while the RO was trying to keep up & they would never know.

N

[outerlimits]

yep-hate it...limited 10 shotgun in open