Custom 2011 slide lightening techniques...

[Xfactor]

I've been thinking about a commissioning a new custom 2011 build, and I've been wondering about the different techniques out there used to lighten the slides. I like the look of the Brazos-style holes in the sides of the slide, but do they significantly weaken the slide? For the sake of longevity, is it better to go with flutes that don't cut all the way through?

Thanks,

Edited April 4, 2008 by Xfactor

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: The slide cuts that can be done are endless. The holes work well since they make it lighter and also add cooling vents. Slots will work. Dimples etc. Find a look you like and run with it. I wish I could figure out how to post a pic of my 6" slide that will be my next Limited pistol. Thanks, Eric

[Matt Cheely]

You have little to worry about with weakening the slide too much. They can take a lot of material removal if you do it right.

[Larry White]

It just needs to be done by an experiened gunsmith that know where, or more imporant where not to cut.----------Larry

[cking]

IMHO, I like brazos, style holes, I don't like holes that are visible from top of slide. I also think holes in side and top will cause mirage from heat coming off.

There are lots of threads, Benny mention 12oz maybe 11oz for 40cal slide. The gallery has tons of ideas, my 5inch is there.

I drilled two holes in rear of my slide fore and aft of extractor nub.

My next project is a 6in bushing slide, will have 5 brazos holes, recoil spring plug cut, scallop reliefs, two holes in rear.

But if that does get it down to 12oz I bought a long mill, to reach down through the recoil plug area, cut some off the sides there, and then all way up to top off the slide and take more off there but don't pierce the top of slide.

Have them flatop the slide also.

[HSMITH]

You want round or radius cuts, square edges make stress risers and crack slides. Use the right tools, cut it in appropriate places and you will have no problems. Use the wrong tools and/or cut the wrong place and it will crack sooner or later.

Forget cutting to a certain weight, cut for sight track. Make the sight track well and weight of the slide is irrelevant. Overall weight and balance of the pistol IS worthwhile, but shooting for a certain weight in the slide without considering the gun as a system is not the way to go about it. If the sight doesn't lift and return correctly the gun will suck no matter how cool it looks.

[Chris Keen]

IMHO, I like brazos, style holes, I don't like holes that are visible from top of slide. I also think holes in side and top will cause mirage from heat coming off.

Most stages we shoot are about 30 seconds or less. I doubt the heat buildup would occur fast enough to be a problem. If it did, then it would be a problem even with a stock slide.

Go with what you think looks good, because in the end it is really just about how much metal / weight to remove. The decision on where & how only affects the visual outcome. After doing a large cut on the top of a slide, I now realize why all the top name smiths make their cuts in the side ... because the cuts show up better in pictures when they are visable from the side.

[Flexmoney]

Just reading that mirage thing got me wondering. Then I remembered...I've shot tens and tens of thousands of rounds throught a Glock 35 and never had a mirage issue.

[SV_shooter]

Just reading that mirage thing got me wondering. Then I remembered...I've shot tens and tens of thousands of rounds throught a Glock 35 and never had a mirage issue.

mine either! could it be that there is no bbl. porting kyle?

I own both a glock and a brazos. I personally really like the slot cut out the top of the 35, and $hit yes I love the slide profile cuts of the brazos. you can order a slide from 1911store.com (brazos retail/parts shop) that has the brazos ovular lightening holes, and he'll fit the slide to the frame for ya if you buy em as a set. now that I think about it, my sight tracker has a huge slot up top of its 5 sided slide...DUH! and I like it a lot too. Never seen a mirage off a handgun; even in 110+ degree weather here in LV or AZ and CA. except off an AR with a few hundred rds fired without a break. it got too hot to handle and it was smokin! find a smith you trust whos work you admire and let him do his thing. If you don't like what he proposes for lightening cuts, tell him and get what you want. I prefer function over fashion, but hey! its your gun, not the smiths and it aint mine. get what you want, but listen to your smith too, and allow him a little creative freedom to display his artistic or professional asthetics that make a gun like a brazos a brazos, or a bedell a beddell, or a Venry(radical precision) HSMITH, Benny Hill, the list goes on and on. next... prepare to wait! a long long time to see your gun.

[splashdown]

+1 to what Howard said. My first thought was that I would avoid square corners. That's where stresses get concentrated. Nice round holes like the Brazos style allows the stresses to "flow" smoothly around the holes. My new 6" has Brazos style holes, a slot on top with rounded ends (Note: no mirage), and the spring plug tunnel is cut out with rounded corners. I made sure my gunsmith (JPL) wasn't going to make any square corners in any of the holes.

One note, Brazos style holes do nothing for gripping the slide if you like to rack from up front.

[Flexmoney]

Just reading that mirage thing got me wondering. Then I remembered...I've shot tens and tens of thousands of rounds throught a Glock 35 and never had a mirage issue.

mine either! could it be that there is no bbl. porting kyle?

I don't get the reference to barrel porting, nor the little face?

[Xfactor]

Thanks for all the responses, guys - I appreciate the advice.

[SV_shooter]

I don't get the reference to barrel porting, nor the little face?

I was just in agreement w you. the face was kinda meant to be suspect of disbelief towards the post in question about the whole mirage thing. no biggie. barrel porting would obviously direct hot gasses upwards hence seeing a possible "mirage". kinda like a bbq's heatwaves.

[Got Boost?]

I thought I would get this gun lightened and I also thought Brazos Customs would be a wise choice…boy was I wrong!!!

I call them and asked about getting the work done and was basically told to get lost. They also told me that any good gunsmith would not do the job, because they make to much money on complete builds to waste their time on the small stuff. Unfortunately for them, I have been considering purchasing two new guns one open and one limited. I thought this small job would be a good starting point in choosing the right gunsmith to build for me…guess who just got scratched off my list?

Edited April 22, 2008 by Got Boost?

[Chris Keen]

My guess is they told you to find a local smith because they are already swamped with new builds, and probably wouldnt be able to get it done for many months. I dont know what their current lead time is, but it is usually high. Doesnt mean they dont want your business. Just looking out for you. Im sure they would love to talk about a new build.

Not sure how your front cocking serrations would look with Brazos style cuts. They might clash or overlap. Look into a couple of other forum members such as Matt Cheely, HSmith, Chuck Bradley, or Gans Guns for slide cutting work.

Edited April 22, 2008 by CHRIS KEEN

[CDRODA396]

Gary at Gans does excellent work and has a pretty good gallery of some options to get you thinking at...

http://www.gansguns.com/

He has some phenomenal turn around times, I sent my gun in to have the slide lightened and trigger components installed/tuned, mailed on Mon, received by Gary on Tue, pics emailed to me of the cuts on Wed, gun shipped back the following Mon.

[benny hill]

The small stuff I take in pays the rent.

[Chris Keen]

Sorry Benny ..... I would have mentioned you but I thought you were as backed up as the rest of the upper tier smiths.

[Fireant]

The small stuff I take in pays the rent.

You see now that's the kind of answer I like to hear. That's why when I get my box of parts put together I'm calling Benny

[Paul Burtchell]

The small stuff I take in pays the rent.

You see now that's the kind of answer I like to hear. That's why when I get my box of parts put together I'm calling Benny

You will not be disappointed. One of my guns is with Benny now getting a bull barrel fitted and some minor tweaking. He has done several "small jobs" for me. Always in a timely fashion. Edited April 22, 2008 by baerburtchell

[Brazos SC Shooter]

I thought I would get this gun lightened and I also thought Brazos Customs would be a wise choice…boy was I wrong!!!

I call them and asked about getting the work done and was basically told to get lost. They also told me that any good gunsmith would not do the job, because they make to much money on complete builds to waste their time on the small stuff. Unfortunately for them, I have been considering purchasing two new guns one open and one limited. I thought this small job would be a good starting point in choosing the right gunsmith to build for me…guess who just got scratched off my list?

I think it is foolish to disregard someone because they wouldn't do what you wanted.

Rant On

Did you ever stop and think that maybe his business model doesn't include working on guns that don't come out of his shop. If you had your heart set on a hand built Shelby Cobra built by Mr. Shelby himself, but before you bought one you wanted him to perform a tune up on your Honda and he refused, would you scratch him of your list as well.

Bob is an amazing gunsmith, as are many others. Mine has run like a scalded dog with no problems for a year. I had to wait 4 months for it and it was worth every single day. If you want to shoot the best there are some sacrafices that must be made. Time, money and patience. Also, you do business on their terms. I commend Bob for staying true and focused on his guns. It ensures that the customers who are ording his guns get them timely.

Rant off

[XRe]

My guess is they told you to find a local smith because they are already swamped with new builds, and probably wouldnt be able to get it done for many months. I dont know what their current lead time is, but it is usually high. Doesnt mean they dont want your business. Just looking out for you. Im sure they would love to talk about a new build.

Speaking from what I know about Brazos' business, that's definitely part of it. As it is, Bob has a long lead time on his own custom builds. Lightening the slide on an existing gun either means delaying custom gun builds to handle it, or charging you an exhorbitant amount in order to justify fitting it into the workflow ahead of folks who have already committed to a full custom gun.

In addition, though, think about this - in taking that job, Bob also "inherits" any potential existing problems with your gun. If the gun gets back to you and hiccups, who are you going to call to fix it?? (Because, of course, it runs 100% before the slide was lightened, right?) That means he also has to delay custom builds to trouble shoot any problems you have once he's done the work (including magazine and ammo issues). Also, he'd be working on parts that are not of his selection, which means the tolerances in the parts aren't accounted for in his workflow, and may or may not be able to be adapted properly to it - all of that takes a lot of extra time (and, potentially, your money) to check dimensions, insure the cuts all work and will look right (ie, everything is square, lined up in the jigs correctly, etc), and all that. Finally, you end up with a gun that has his signature lightening cuts, but isn't his gun, and in fact looks (relatively) like crap because he just cut those holes through the cocking serrations and Caspian logo on your slide - and you, of course, are going to tell folks that Brazos did the work.... but it won't look like the quality of work that Bob turns out on a regular basis.

There's a lot of reasons why a gunsmith might not want to do the work you want done (and Bob may have more than I mentioned above - I don't speak for him, obviously ). There are plenty of smiths who will take on that sort of custom work, as has been pointed out. Hopefully you can find one who can create the look you want in a way that looks good to you on your existing gun.

I hope that at least sheds a little light on the situation, though...

Dave

[Got Boost?]

Actually, I am currently shooting an open major 9 built by Benny and I love it! I also have an open gun built by Matt Mclearn, the gun I want lightened is a Gun Doc built gun; so I guess the theory about me being impatient doesn't fly! I just thought I would like to try something new; unfortunately or fortunately you decide, you can disregard someone because they won’t do what you want. If you went to Wendy's and got a bowl of finger chilly would you return?

Edited April 25, 2008 by Got Boost?

[Brazos Custom]

They also told me that any good gunsmith would not do the job, because they make to much money on complete builds to waste their time on the small stuff.

Actually what you were told was that we are too busy building guns to do that type of work (which is the case). I have this conversation several times a week: "I have this gun and want you to cut holes in it". I would hope that no one that knows what they are doing would "cut holes in your slide" just to make a quick buck. If they duplicated our style of cuts they would look like crap on that gun and the holes would create nice little stress risers at each junction with your front cocking serrations. I won't take on jobs where the final product reflects poorly on my work whether the customer wants it or not.

[cking]

Brazo wants to sell you a new gun or a slide with holes in it. That's OK, but you can find other people to do what you want. I sent my slide to JPL for the brazo style hole cut.