ranger Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 I am shooting a G20 with a KKM 40S&W conversion barrel. I am experiencing failures to extract randomly during strings of fire. The fired case is half way out of the chamber and the slide is attempting to feed a fresh round out of the mag. The fired case is no longer held by the extractor. Troubleshooting Notes: This is happening with multiple factory Glock G20 magazines plus happens when mag is full or partially full. I tried multiple spring weights - factory, Wollf 12 lb, Wollf 14 lb, and Wollf 15 lb. I tried several different reloads with different bullet profiles (all the reloads run 100% in my P16). Any suggestions accepted. Abandoning the G20 to the safe and shooting the P16 again is an option but not the preferred solution. Have there been issues with large frame Glock extractors or extractor springs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odie Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 If it were me, I'd change the extractor. If that didn't do it I'd change the spring on the extractor rod (whatever it's called) and that little plastic "bearing" in the end of it. As a last resort, I'd change the rod itself. But that's just me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jman Posted December 28, 2007 Share Posted December 28, 2007 My first guess is a possible chipped extractor. Look it over real close. Pop the 10mm barrel back in and test fire it with factory ammo. Jim M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshidaex Posted December 29, 2007 Share Posted December 29, 2007 i'm not 100% familiar with all the glock models but is the ejector for the 10mm and 40S&W units the same? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vluc Posted December 29, 2007 Share Posted December 29, 2007 (edited) From Gun Zone .40 S&W - G22, G23, G24, G24p, G27 For all .40 pistols, use trigger housing with ejector part #SP 01896 and ejector part #SP 01882 (new style). 90° Breech Face - Extractor #SP 06908 - 90°/Parallel Hook 15° Breech Face - Extractor #SP 06740 - 15°/Parallel Hook 10 mm Auto - G20 For all 10 mm Auto pistols, use trigger housing with ejector part #SP04431 and ejector part #SP 04340. 90° Breech Face - Extractor #SP 05509 - 90°/5° 15° Breech Face - Extractor #SP 06061 - 15°/5° 9x19mm and 10mm Glock pistols have a parallel hook. All .40 caliber and .45 caliber Glock pistols have a 5° hook. All.40 caliber pistols should have the new style 14.7mm ejectors, part # SP 01882. Edited December 29, 2007 by vluc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yoshidaex Posted December 29, 2007 Share Posted December 29, 2007 i'm thinking ejector issue at this point if the 10mm and 40S&W due to different ejector dimensions. thanks for the info vluc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty whiteboy Posted December 29, 2007 Share Posted December 29, 2007 I tried multiple spring weights - factory, Wollf 12 lb, Wollf 14 lb, and Wollf 15 lb. I tried several different reloads with different bullet profiles (all the reloads run 100% in my P16). Did you try the G-20 factory recoil spring? Mine seems to run better with 40 load and factory recoil. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryucasta Posted December 29, 2007 Share Posted December 29, 2007 (edited) Just curious what COAL are you using? I'm using a G20 configured with a 40-10mm KKM barrel with 40 S&W Long Loaded (+1.190 OAL) cartridges and I have yet to experience any failures. Edited December 29, 2007 by ryucasta Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted December 29, 2007 Share Posted December 29, 2007 Just curious what COAL are you using? I'm using a G20 configured with a 40-10mm KKM barrel with 40 S&W Long Loaded (+1.190 OAL) cartridges and I have yet to experience any failures. Same setup with my gf's gun. We run it with an ISMI captured rod and 13# recoil spring. It eats my standard reloads (Zero 180jhp) at 1.135, and it's usual diet of WWB 165's and WWB 180's. Completely reliable. So is a similar setup from another local shooter and glock guru (dwt). Our's runs at minor power factor, even. Since you are new at this setup, I'd guess some kind of opperator error. - Thumb dragging on the slide. - Slide stop/release not properly installed. (locking block pin installed in the wrong order) - Extractor spring assembly improperly installed - No joy on the ejector - Ammo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ranger Posted December 30, 2007 Author Share Posted December 30, 2007 "Slide stop/release not properly installed. (locking block pin installed in the wrong order)" Flex - can you elaborate on this - maybe I did something wrong here. I'll also check the extractor spring assembly. ryucasta - my COAL is 1.130 OAL. I am using 175 LSWC - if I load longer I am having feeding problems with the SWC. vluc - lots of good data on your post - I got to think about those. I appreciate all the input. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 "Slide stop/release not properly installed. (locking block pin installed in the wrong order)"Flex - can you elaborate on this - Sure, take it out and start from scratch. Install the extra locking block pin first, then install the slide stop/release with the trigger pin. Make sure you keep those thumbs off the slide. Don't use the extended version of the slide stop/release either (easy to hit during recoil...and you'll never know it). Which ejector do you have? I'll also check the extractor spring assembly That gets put together wrong too. Even your safety plunger could be catching things up...if the spring was sprung on assembly and is binding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glk21C Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 the only time I ever had problems like this were when my recoil spring started to wear out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 Sounds like it's extracting just fine, it's the ejection that seems to be the problem. How does the ejector look? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trader Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 (edited) I shot IDPA a few years back using my GL20 with a Jarvis .40 barrel. I changed to a .40 ejector when doing so. The .40 ejector is longer than the 10mm ejector and will solve ejection problems. Edited December 30, 2007 by Trader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Sinko Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 The extraction problems can be tough. My 21 suddenly consistently failed to extract the second from last round in every one of the dozen magazines I have. I noticed this when shooting .45 ACP Minor and the characteristics where exactly what is described - the case being pulled halfway out the chamber, extractor slips off and then the gun gets tied up. Oddly enough this happened only with the second from last round. I could never figure this out. In my case it may have something to do with the weight of the gun as it was getting lighter due to less rounds in the gun and the way I was holding it. My 35 is completely reliable and the only two stoppages I experienced were due to an awkward grip when shooting around a barricade. Again, it was the way I gripped the gun. I believe most of my Glock stoppages can be attributed to how I hold the gun with the weight of the gun and how it is sprung being contributing factors. Let other people shoot your gun and see if the same thing happens. Dave Sinko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coltgov Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 my COAL is 1.130 OAL. I am using 175 LSWC - if I load longer I am having feeding problems with the SWC. There is your problem. You use lead SWC! It cuts nice holes but is a problem with the large frame Glocks. There is a step on the bullet, and when the empty case comes out, it catches on SWC round in the magazine slipping the case out of the extractor before it has a chance to eject. Change to round nose lead like Precisions will solve your problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ranger Posted December 30, 2007 Author Share Posted December 30, 2007 my COAL is 1.130 OAL. I am using 175 LSWC - if I load longer I am having feeding problems with the SWC. There is your problem. You use lead SWC! It cuts nice holes but is a problem with the large frame Glocks. There is a step on the bullet, and when the empty case comes out, it catches on SWC round in the magazine slipping the case out of the extractor before it has a chance to eject. Change to round nose lead like Precisions will solve your problem. Hmmmm................I have some other bullets - 155 RN, 200TC, and 220TC. I'll try these and report back. Great suggestion. I loaded the 175 LSWC to "standard" 40 length - I wonder if I can load the 200TC or 220TC to the a longer OAL with the KKM 40 conversion barrel? Will the small frame 40S&W Glocks (G22, G24, and G35) have same issues with the 175 LSWC? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryucasta Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 Flex, The issue that I have run into with the G20 and Double Stack 1911's (Para P16, SV and STI) that are using SAAMI SPEC 40 S&W cartridges has been with the magazines. The cartridges tend to mess up within the magazine. Have you not experienced that problem? It has been my experience that when I use 40 S&W long loaded cartridges the aforementioned problem does not manifest itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwt Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 As Mr Coltgov says ,SWC is a problem in the large frame Glocks .I have used 2-G-20's in Limited and Open for the last 2/3 yrs and have had no problems with the Limited gun,2yrs two malfunctions an upside down primer and a high primer [ my fault ] I shoot 4 to 5 matchs a month ,8 months a yr. I load most all ammo that I shoot to 1.135/1.145 no problems !! I have shot all loaded lengths you can think of in,10mm custom and factory bbls,40 conversion bbl and 40's in factory 10mm bbls not many problems of any kind . The Glock-20 is a highly underated choice !!!! Dale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 Flex,The issue that I have run into with the G20 and Double Stack 1911's (Para P16, SV and STI) that are using SAAMI SPEC 40 S&W cartridges has been with the magazines. The cartridges tend to mess up within the magazine. Have you not experienced that problem? ... No, not once. Not in the G20-40 (most certainly in the P16 ;( ) We run the Gramm's base pad and mag spring. I suspect other springs. dwt might have some insight on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coltgov Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 Flex,The issue that I have run into with the G20 and Double Stack 1911's (Para P16, SV and STI) that are using SAAMI SPEC 40 S&W cartridges has been with the magazines. The cartridges tend to mess up within the magazine. Have you not experienced that problem? ... No, not once. Not in the G20-40 (most certainly in the P16 ;( ) We run the Gramm's base pad and mag spring. I suspect other springs. dwt might have some insight on that. If your round is long enough to stay in the magazine feed lips as the bullet goes into the chamber then feeding should not be a problem. You don't want a round so short as the bullet starts to jump up into the extractor, the nose of the bullet has yet to enter the chamber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 I thought this was a failure of the fired case to clear the breech... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dwt Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 I run Arrendondo pads and Gramm's springs ,Bevins springs are the largest that will fit in a 17/22 size mag,which is alittle larger than anybody else's .The main problem is that most springs on the market are made to fit all Glock mags and as everyone knows the 20 & 21 mags are larger It would be nice to have a spring made to fit the inter-dimension of a G-20 mag .I ran into the spring mess when My son-in-law welded two mags together,[yes it can be done and works flawless] for a 170 big stick ,had problems with 13 coil springs and modified followers, nose dives with some bullet nose shapes,loading longer in this setup works better .I ended up with a 24+1 , Sweet !! Dale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty whiteboy Posted December 31, 2007 Share Posted December 31, 2007 It would be nice to have a spring made to fit the inter-dimension of a G-20 mag .!! Try ISMI spring for the Para 45 (140mm) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ranger Posted January 6, 2008 Author Share Posted January 6, 2008 UPDATE: I took the G20 apart but saw no issues. I reloaded some 40S&W lead 200 grain TC with 4.4 VV320 loaded to 1.185 OAL. The G20 shot with no incidents using this lead TC reload - issue appears to be solved with the switch away from LSWC. Once I shot up all the 200 TC ammo, I loaded another mag with the 175 LSWC load and it choked immediately. So, G20s with KKM 40 conversion barrels and LSWC do not work. However, I took my G21 and it shot with no issues with some classic 45 ACP 200 grain SWCs - go figure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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