Steve Anderson Posted April 30, 2003 Author Share Posted April 30, 2003 Rhino, You could start with 5 minutes to get into the habit. 5 min. of draws means you can confrim a sight picture instead of looking for a sight picture and will cut half to a third of second from your draw. That confidence pays off quick. My warm up par time is .9 to a sight picture and I work down to .7, .6 as they get easy. I don't do .9 draws at every stage, but I RARELY flub a draw. (once this season on my third re-shoot of a 5 stage match) The other benefit of this (that's HUGE) is you won't get any more buzzer fear. I used to freak when I heard the buzzer at the match. Now it's the most comforting sound on the range. SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDH Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 SA, You are 100% correct in that there are probably very few people that can not commit 15 minutes a day to practice, and you are 100% correct that 15 mins (or 15 more if they are already practicing), will bring them improvement. No disagreement here. Okay, all that said, there are only 24 hours in a day no matter how you slice it. So for someone to find that 15 mins, they probably have to give up something else in that time slot. At that point it all comes down to priorities, goals, and peoples motivations. Those that aren't practicing (or are not practicing enough), are simply making a decision that something else is more important to them at that point. In the case of the guy with the baby, I think he is just saying that it's more important right now for him to spend his 15 mins with the baby, as opposed to practice. In my case, I could list several 'excuses' that are eating my 15 mins/day, but again, they are just different choices. One thing I will say however, is that this is an excellant thread because it has forced me to really think about 'just exactly what have I been doing that is that much more important than practicing?' GREAT THREAD. Thanks for starting it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted April 30, 2003 Author Share Posted April 30, 2003 BDH, That's kinda the crux of it. I'm confused by some shooters who WILL: Buy $3000 pistols and mags for $60-100 EACH Pay 15-20 to shoot a local match Drive 90 minutes to shoot that match Buy the press, the components, and load the rounds Complain about not progressing, or being stuck in ____ class And WON'T: Dry fire 15 minutes a day. Before I started a serious dry fire program I just did not believe it would make a difference. I was wrong. Again, If the guy with the baby just wants to hang and TRULY has no desire to improve, then he has no need for any practice, as his non-goal of not improving is self-fulfilling. That's how I feel about 3-gun right now...I got the ar, and put the 10 tube on my 870, but I'm not practicing with either because I don't really care how I do In the 3-gun match locally. I do that just for fun to do something different. When (if) i decide I want to excel in 3 gun you bet yer sweet patootie I'll be loading 223 and drilling with both guns. The shooters I mean are the ones WANT to improve ,are feeling stuck in a rut, and WON'T make ANY time for ANY dry fire, let alone live fire. BTW, my original challenge was going to be to forum regulars to spend as much time dry firing as they do on the forums for one month, and see if they go up a class. I bet that would steam some beans.... Anybody up for that one? SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeeper Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 BTW, my original challenge was going to be to forum regulars to spend as much time dry firing as they do on the forums for one month, and see if they go up a class. I bet that would steam some beans.... Anybody up for that one? SA That is a tall order. I am willing to try it starting in 2 weeks for the rest of the summer. I am going to keep track of all shooting times for drills. How about a starting a thread for this challenge for compairison at the beginning and end of the month. This way we can post results and improvement numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 Steve: Spend as much time practicing as browsing? What have you been smoking? I think we all know that improvement is just a matter of comitting resources. Those resources include financial resources and time resources. Of all the resources, dry fire is the only one that doesn't cost a person one red cent. We all know that dry fire is an essential component of any training program, but many shooters have different goals and priorities than getting better. Anyone who claims they want to improve, but won't embark on a training program, really doesn't have the desire to prepare to win. What they have is the desire to win, but they won't pay their dues. It really is that simple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 I find my shooting progress doesn't improve linearly. Sometimes I can practice all week long and see improvement and sometimes I can sit on the forums all week and still see improvement. Sometimes I don't improve much at all, no matter what I do. In the long run my progress is in a forward direction, but I bet a closeup chart would show a ton of peaks and valleys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted April 30, 2003 Author Share Posted April 30, 2003 Ron, At the moment, a Fuente Curlyhead... I knew that challenge would be ill-received by most.... Shred, For me it's about turning weaknesses into non-issues. I don't always see an immediate improvement, but I don't get nervous before weak hand or strong hand stages anymore... SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davecutts Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 I can find most people 15 minutes and still be way on the conservative end. Take your TV. and put it outside, and let someone else waste his or her life watching other people live theirs. I know some will object, as they never watch TV, but most American males watch 34 + hours of TV a week, and females come in a close second just under thirty, but I don’t remember that number because it doesn’t pertain to me. Since I moved six weeks ago we haven't brought the TV. in from the garage (man I love being able to say that after living in apartments for the last ten years, and it's mine), or plugged it in for that matter. I'll keep it in case I want to watch my Burner videos again, but for now I happy it's gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 Dry firing at the TV is a great way to practice acquiring movers quickly. Rock videos provide lots of rapidly changing targets. PBS is good for slowfire drills. Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted April 30, 2003 Share Posted April 30, 2003 And of course, it's still true that knowing what to do and doing it are two distinct things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j1b Posted May 4, 2003 Share Posted May 4, 2003 This is a cool little topic. Just to read it exposes all the components of Human nature that exist in life, much less shooting. If I may add my $.02 - The components of getting better at shooting are well documented. Steve - you teed it up. Dry fire. I can not tell you how many times I've read in some document about TGO that he has a gun in his hand nearly all the time when he is at his house. He may not always suit up - but he is always handling the gun. This is suplimented by live fire practice which really only re-enforces what you've been doing at home. Its really as simple as that. We all know it. I find it ironic that we all know that you have to practice the stuff we suck at to get better, not the things we are good at. But it almost always happens - let's set up a drill I can really smoke today. I guess its human nature, which is fine. I think some people want to improve and some people choose to improve. I can't think of a match I entered that I didn't want to win. I can think of only a few that I chose to win. I didn't win all of the ones that I chose to win, but I almost always was competitive. I never won a match that I didn't decide to choose to succeed in prior to pulling the trigger. Its a simple thought process. Everyone would like to do well. But some hope they will do well while others work to insure they perform. For me, I can live with the way things are today. Truly at a match the people who will challenge you the most are the people as dedicated as you. And they will always be the ones that will take you to the next level as you strive to get better. As for the people who complain about no time to practice, no time to get better etc. etc. - I think we're joshing ourselves to say that a little dry firing would fix the problems. Yes . . . they would improve but their mind set does not lend itself to getting where they would like to see themselves. If they dry fire all month, then next month it'll be something else screwing up their game. In reality, we will know that it is in fact themselves that are holding them back. I can say this - and not be a hypocrit - because I am one of the ones who "claims" to have no time to shoot. Its BS - I have not made time to shoot. JB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davecutts Posted May 4, 2003 Share Posted May 4, 2003 This is a cool little topic. Just to read it exposes all the components of Human nature that exist in life, much less shooting.JB He's back, and as usual he's given us a few little snippets of wisdom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davecutts Posted May 4, 2003 Share Posted May 4, 2003 sorry ... stupid computer... or opperator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SiG Lady Posted May 4, 2003 Share Posted May 4, 2003 shred-- I leave the range some days feeling like I invented "peaks 'n valleys." But perhaps not after all. Like the stock market, over the past many decades, it's had ups and downs, but generally keeps going up (at least on a long-term chart). An imperfect analogy, perhaps, but the visual strongly came to mind. The better we become (as a result of practice), the greater the stress to 1.) stay that way, and 2.) get better still. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted May 4, 2003 Share Posted May 4, 2003 I know one thing for sure, I only get as good as I work at it. I love the comment about TGO keeping a gun in his hand most of the time at home. The gun must be an extension of oneself if one wishes to stop thinking about it, and just use it. An old motorcycle racing saying goes: "if you have to think about it, you are already IN the haybales". I try to spend a lot of time gun handling, and dry firing at home (long guns too!). I may not be a real blazer, but my gun handling is impeccable, and I don't have to think about what I am doing with the equipment when it comes to match time (or heaven forbid, Malfunction Time!). I love dry fire practice. It only needs to be validated at the range, you do not need to beat it to death at the range. I believe that working against a par time at home is the best way to work on fundamentals (for me anyway). I test it with live fire, but I don't live fire the fundamentals into the ground. Things that I believe live ammo deserves to be spent on are; offhand rifle at distance, 25yd draws on a 6" plate, offhand slug shooting at 40-50 plus yards, etc.. Do the hard things in practice for sure. They can only be perfected by checking the holes, or hearing the dings. The simple things can be honed succesfully at home, such as; reloads, draws with sight picture, target transitions, getting into kneeling/prone positions efficiently, and so on. Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted May 4, 2003 Share Posted May 4, 2003 Steve, If we took you up on your challenge (to spend as much time dry-firing as we do surfing the forums) we wouldn't be forum regulars anymore. Seriously, your challenge (to dryfire 15 minutes a day) comes at an interesting time for me. Last Sunday at a match, the classifier was timed fire with a string of freestyle, a string of strong hand and a string of weak hand for a total of ninety points. My personal best on that classifier was 32 points. I hadn't spent any time in the last few months shooting weakhand or strong hand ---- so I wandered off to the safety table and spent five minutes working on strong hand and weak hand draws. My gun jammed on the strong hand string ---- I only got the first round off. I'm confident without the jam I would have gotten off three rounds. I scored 30 points for seven rounds fired ---- 6 As and a miss into the hardcover on the right target on the freestyle pass ---- I took my time for the first three As and then overshot the A-zone as I rushed to get the fourth round off. There's no question in my mind that those five minutes of dryfire practice made a huge difference in my ability to hit As instead of hitting brown. I'm gonna dryfire for fifteen minutes a day Monday-Saturday. (and Sunday if I can find that much time at the safe table) We'll see what happens! Great thread! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moneypenny Posted May 4, 2003 Share Posted May 4, 2003 Steve, i'm totally with you on this. my favorite quite is "i wish i could shoot like you,/todd jarrett/ other hero et al. " I say. fine you can be as good, or better, just go home and dry fire..... never hear another word from them most shooters need to go rub a lamp. because thats the only way they will improve, they don't have the caricter fortitude to improve... if yoru there to have fun, don't say you want to be good. say.. dude i'm having a blast! those of you who know me, ask me how i'm doing at a match.. usually you never hear "great" ... you get.. ok... staying above water.... digging a deep hole..... now ask me how i am after the match.... you get great, i don't feel good unless i shoot good.. not WIN. shoot good for me.. now when i shoot good and win.. i feel awesoem :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 Had another thought this past week that starts out only peripherally-related. Locally there's a guy that's a pretty good shooter, but he used to keep on with the smack-talking. As in wandering back and forth between squads at matches for the next round of "I'm going to beat you, kick your a$$" talk. Finally a few weeks ago he realized (after we'd tried to tell him many times) that if he didn't do that, he shot better. He was coming to matches with an "I'm trying to beat him and him.." attitude. Now he's shutting up and shooting better than ever. So what does this have to do with practice? If you're motivated to beat somebody, it's great motivation to get off the couch and practice, but it's lousy motivation for match day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 Most people don't want to accept this, but the God's honest truth is that who's going to win the match has been decided before the first shot is ever fired. And generally it's going to be the shooter who's the best practiced. This does not necessarily mean the shooter who practiced the MOST - though it may - but the one who practiced the BEST. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zorba Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 I live in an area where we are only allowed to shoot on wednesdays and saturdays, this is because of the anti people who complained about the noise, allot of us cant shoot during the week due to work. Because of this i started dry firing before i even shot a live round, i do believe that the dry firing is what has prepared me for live fire practice, its made a big diference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBF Posted May 5, 2003 Share Posted May 5, 2003 ALLRIGHT...I'm taking the challenge, I've been slacking lately. Thanks all. Travis F. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted May 5, 2003 Author Share Posted May 5, 2003 Let us know what it does for you. Congrats on taking the steps to improve. SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDH Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 SA, Okay, ya got me! Why? First, because I have definately been a lazy ass, and second, because not only did I completely suck at Circleville Saturday, but probably sucked as bad or worse at Oxford on Sunday. The bottom line is that I've watched my percentage go down for a couple of years, and am sick and tired of it. Even if I can't cure this damn flinch, I should be able to improve some of the other areas. The bottom line is that if I continue down my current road, USPSA will soon have to create a new class........ 'S' for 'shooters that suck' ...... and I want to try to avoid becoming the poster child....... ps. dry-fired 30 mins tonight..... it actually felt 'good'..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Anderson Posted May 6, 2003 Author Share Posted May 6, 2003 A week turns into a routine and you reverse your downward slide. Keep it up! SA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Merricks Posted May 6, 2003 Share Posted May 6, 2003 Damn why did I have to read this. Time to get off my butt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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