Jim Norman Posted December 29, 2007 Share Posted December 29, 2007 I sort of like the idea of announcing that the match you are shooting IS an USPSA match and not jsut a match. Perhaps, just maybe, I'll get a placard or banner and put it up on match day. Certainly I can put up something at the sign in trailer. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omnia1911 Posted December 29, 2007 Share Posted December 29, 2007 Why not take the "no activity fees" one step farther and say "no club match fee" either?Gary Is that a proposal you support? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omnia1911 Posted December 29, 2007 Share Posted December 29, 2007 I sort of like the idea of announcing that the match you are shooting IS an USPSA match and not jsut a match. Perhaps, just maybe, I'll get a placard or banner and put it up on match day. Certainly I can put up something at the sign in trailer. Jim The banner isn't so much for those already with USPSA, but for potential shooters that may come to the range on match day. They could possibly be shooters with USPSA if you lead them to the match, the stat shack with information officer/guide, and the membership sign up sheets. It is like any other business process. Have eyes and ears available for them too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warpspeed Posted December 29, 2007 Share Posted December 29, 2007 Why not take the "no activity fees" one step farther and say "no club match fee" either?Gary Is that a proposal you support? I believe what Gary is saying is this is a 2 way street. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgkeller Posted December 29, 2007 Share Posted December 29, 2007 Money flows from Sedro Wooley to the clubs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joseywales Posted December 29, 2007 Share Posted December 29, 2007 The banner isn't so much for those already with USPSA, but for potential shooters that may come to the range on match day. They could possibly be shooters with USPSA if you lead them to the match, the stat shack with information officer/guide, and the membership sign up sheets. It is like any other business process. Have eyes and ears available for them too. Just wondering... How this is working at the local matches that you are running and/or attending? How much has the club growth rate increased as a result of the efforts described above? How did you grow your group of regular setup help to the point that you can assign a person to be the club liaison for membership/recruiting duty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted December 29, 2007 Share Posted December 29, 2007 Yes money does flow from USPSA to the clubs in the form of services, management, and product. It just seems logical to me that if the organization could do without activity fee's then the clubs could do without match fee's. Of course when it came time for the club to replace targets, pasters, props, steel, etc. there might be a problem. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omnia1911 Posted December 29, 2007 Share Posted December 29, 2007 Yes money does flow from USPSA to the clubs in the form of services, management, and product.It just seems logical to me that if the organization could do without activity fee's then the clubs could do without match fee's. Of course when it came time for the club to replace targets, pasters, props, steel, etc. there might be a problem. Gary Maybe you can point out a post from me, or anyone else, suggesting that USPSA should not receive any activity fees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted December 29, 2007 Share Posted December 29, 2007 How about the last sentence of number 48? Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omnia1911 Posted December 29, 2007 Share Posted December 29, 2007 The banner isn't so much for those already with USPSA, but for potential shooters that may come to the range on match day. They could possibly be shooters with USPSA if you lead them to the match, the stat shack with information officer/guide, and the membership sign up sheets. It is like any other business process. Have eyes and ears available for them too. Just wondering... How this is working at the local matches that you are running and/or attending? How much has the club growth rate increased as a result of the efforts described above? How did you grow your group of regular setup help to the point that you can assign a person to be the club liaison for membership/recruiting duty? My earlier post was clear that I haven't seen anyone doing this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omnia1911 Posted December 29, 2007 Share Posted December 29, 2007 How about the last sentence of number 48?Gary That was in reference to a continuing string of posts where I stated Level I matches shouldn't pay acivity fees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgkeller Posted December 29, 2007 Share Posted December 29, 2007 Yes money does flow from USPSA to the clubs in the form of services, management, and product.It just seems logical to me that if the organization could do without activity fee's then the clubs could do without match fee's. Of course when it came time for the club to replace targets, pasters, props, steel, etc. there might be a problem. Gary Money is money. And services are services. Product is product. And "management" is in the eye of the beholder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted December 30, 2007 Share Posted December 30, 2007 Our procedure. First, we have one main match each month and two formally informal "Practice matches" Second, we, in fact our entire section has a join USPSA at a match and Shoot for free policy. Rare match without at least one joiner. We "mentor" our new shooters, informal, but new shooters are not "left alone" This method is apparently growing our club as many join plus it seems to be growing USPSA. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shoot Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 There is no need for a classification system. With all do respect I disagree and think in order for SC to grow or survive it needs a classification system. I think we need a poll. People need goals. Classifications are necessary to measure improvement and no matter what a particular club wants to do with prizes etc it doesn't matter. Everyone being Unclassified does not make sense . Classification system creates reachable goals. It is why people work hard and keep competing. I've wanted to raise this subject up because so many people in our club only shoot steel. Competing with masters and grand masters must be tempered with a reality that there is a measurable goal with achievement. Not just a satisfaction of achieving a slightly improving percentage towards their seemingly unreachable speed. In any division the health of SC will depend not on a few grand masters but on the masses of hard working D B,C and A shooters seeking improvement. It's just darn fun to raise your game. Without a classification system SC will fail to reach it's potential. Definition of fail is a bunch of old timers and lot's of new faces because nobody stays and works hard to work up the ladder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbbean Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 There is no need for a classification system. With all do respect I disagree and think in order for SC to grow or survive it needs a classification system. I think we need a poll. People need goals. Classifications are necessary to measure improvement and no matter what a particular club wants to do with prizes etc it doesn't matter. Everyone being Unclassified does not make sense . Classification system creates reachable goals. It is why people work hard and keep competing. I've wanted to raise this subject up because so many people in our club only shoot steel. Competing with masters and grand masters must be tempered with a reality that there is a measurable goal with achievement. Not just a satisfaction of achieving a slightly improving percentage towards their seemingly unreachable speed. In any division the health of SC will depend not on a few grand masters but on the masses of hard working D B,C and A shooters seeking improvement. It's just darn fun to raise your game. Without a classification system SC will fail to reach it's potential. Definition of fail is a bunch of old timers and lot's of new faces because nobody stays and works hard to work up the ladder. I agree. I'm slow enough that I'll never be a contender at the Steel Challenge. But it'd be nice to work through a couple of classifications. Being the fastest of the slow shooters sure beats just being 40th in a field of 50. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 There is no need for a classification system. With all do respect I disagree and think in order for SC to grow or survive it needs a classification system. I think we need a poll. People need goals. Classifications are necessary to measure improvement and no matter what a particular club wants to do with prizes etc it doesn't matter. Everyone being Unclassified does not make sense . Classification system creates reachable goals. It is why people work hard and keep competing. I've wanted to raise this subject up because so many people in our club only shoot steel. Competing with masters and grand masters must be tempered with a reality that there is a measurable goal with achievement. Not just a satisfaction of achieving a slightly improving percentage towards their seemingly unreachable speed. In any division the health of SC will depend not on a few grand masters but on the masses of hard working D B,C and A shooters seeking improvement. It's just darn fun to raise your game. Without a classification system SC will fail to reach it's potential. Definition of fail is a bunch of old timers and lot's of new faces because nobody stays and works hard to work up the ladder. I beg to differ...if everyone shot heads up without classification, there would be no one whining about their trip or placement to the prize table... So head down, and work on your game till you see your name at the top of the page... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 There is no need for a classification system. With all do respect I disagree and think in order for SC to grow or survive it needs a classification system. I think we need a poll. People need goals. Classifications are necessary to measure improvement and no matter what a particular club wants to do with prizes etc it doesn't matter. Everyone being Unclassified does not make sense . Classification system creates reachable goals. It is why people work hard and keep competing. I've wanted to raise this subject up because so many people in our club only shoot steel. Competing with masters and grand masters must be tempered with a reality that there is a measurable goal with achievement. Not just a satisfaction of achieving a slightly improving percentage towards their seemingly unreachable speed. In any division the health of SC will depend not on a few grand masters but on the masses of hard working D B,C and A shooters seeking improvement. It's just darn fun to raise your game. Without a classification system SC will fail to reach it's potential. Definition of fail is a bunch of old timers and lot's of new faces because nobody stays and works hard to work up the ladder. I agree. I'm slow enough that I'll never be a contender at the Steel Challenge. But it'd be nice to work through a couple of classifications. Being the fastest of the slow shooters sure beats just being 40th in a field of 50. It is the same thing, you just phrased it differently... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 The banner isn't so much for those already with USPSA, but for potential shooters that may come to the range on match day. They could possibly be shooters with USPSA if you lead them to the match, the stat shack with information officer/guide, and the membership sign up sheets. It is like any other business process. Have eyes and ears available for them too. Just wondering... How this is working at the local matches that you are running and/or attending? How much has the club growth rate increased as a result of the efforts described above? How did you grow your group of regular setup help to the point that you can assign a person to be the club liaison for membership/recruiting duty? Are you a member of the club? Are you a member of USPSA? Yes? OK, you are hereby recruited. No special person need be the liaison. All of us are the perfect recruiters for USPSA and our clubs. If some of you think you might not be, then you need to ask yourself why not? If you have members you'd like to keep under wraps, well then you know who they are and can generally steer new shooters, other than the ones they bring in, away fro them. We have sign up sheets for the club and the USPSA at our sign up table. When a new shooter shows up at one of our matches we usually know that we don't know him and can direct him to all the proper places. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bbbean Posted February 23, 2009 Share Posted February 23, 2009 Being the fastest of the slow shooters sure beats just being 40th in a field of 50. It is the same thing, you just phrased it differently... You might think so, but I felt a lot better winning D class this past year than I would have if I was simply 3/4 of the way down from the top. This year, I'm hoping to win C class in at least one major match. That will sure seem like a bigger accomplishment than moving from the 40th percentile to the 60th percentile. There's a lot to be said for the satisfaction of a job well done, but there's nothing wrong with the occasional recognition along the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxshooter Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Tell me how someone like me can practice to make the top of the list. I had a 20+ year career as a professional athlete, now 58 years old with two bad knees one bad shoulder and typical reflexes and eye sight for someone my age. If I practice from sun up to sun down I will never reach the same level as somebody 25. If there is no classification system then people like me are not going to donate to the top shooters with no chance in hell of winning anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itchy Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 I feel that Steel Challenge is fine the way it is. Heads up, fastest to least fastest, no matter what gun or category you are shooting. I only shoot iron sight rimfire and IDPA SSP, but can keep up with some of the sponsored shooters. I realize that if all the professionals decided to shoot iron sight rimfire instead of open, that I'd get smoked. Or if Dave Sevigny decided to shoot SSP, I'd be 20 seconds behind him. I would rather shoot against the best people heads up than get beat by someone who was sandbagging. I've run into this situation at the state IDPA level and the last ICORE IRC that I shot. A "C" class shooter beat all the "B" class entries and actually finished 5th overall. I understand that there are arguments both ways, but look at Steel Challenge like golf. You are always trying to beat your own personal best score. The stages are always consistent, so you can measure your own improvement. Seiichi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 Having a classification system does not preclude shooting heads up. In USPSA we have GM-D as well s U. When we publish the scores, we publish the Divisions in order of finish and then you notice where the top A, B, C & D shooters are. Often surprising, as they top C might be well ahead of the middle B and often the top B. That is one reason that you can only be classed one class lower than your highest rating. This system allows you to see easily how you rank against the best of the best on any given day and also against the others in your 'classification level'. Nothing wrong with this. It allows those that are only interested in seeing where they area against number one to do so, but it also gives the people that haven't a snowball's chance of being number one to track their performance against shooters of a general same level. I for one don't see a downside to this. So a couple of prizes go to people that are not in the top 16 or whatever level, If all the people below the top 20% stop showing up there won't be any prizes, this isn't the NFL or MLB, it is a gun sport, we don't get the multi-million dollar deals, we don't get network TV on Sunday and people don't have tailgate parties and take a week off from work to travel to a match to be a spectator. Jim Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DougCarden Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 I just deleted a long diatribe that no one would have been happy reading...... If people want to know where they would sit with others of the same USPSA classification, we need to develop software or figure out how to put their Classification with their names so people can see where others finished in the end results. This would let people have bragging rights or just let them know how they did against other shooters of same ability that they dont know. That might be worth a try before we go starting up a classification system and having to deal with adminstrating it..... Just a thought, DougC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atbarr Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 I just deleted a long diatribe that no one would have been happy reading...... If people want to know where they would sit with others of the same USPSA classification, we need to develop software or figure out how to put their Classification with their names so people can see where others finished in the end results. This would let people have bragging rights or just let them know how they did against other shooters of same ability that they dont know. That might be worth a try before we go starting up a classification system and having to deal with adminstrating it..... Just a thought, DougC Yes! A.T. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricBudd Posted February 24, 2009 Share Posted February 24, 2009 I think a classification system is the way to go and I don't see why it would be hard to implement. There are already set stages and we know the times of the best shooters in the world. From there, how hard is it to calculate a percentage and assign a class to shooters? The big benefit of a classification system is that it would provide a tangible benefit for clubs to affiliate and hold Steel Challenge matches instead of local steel matches. (I also think USPSA members should be Steel Challenge members and an affiliated club should be an affiliated club. Of course, I'm only a member - what do I know.) Regards, Eric Budd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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