Lee carbide factory crimp die

[Bob McGee]

With the cost of bullets going way up, I decided to give lead a try after many years of shooting only plated. I have tried several brands of 180 t0 200 gr. bullets all measuring .452" and keep getting about 5-8% that will not drop into a case gage. The problem being a slight bulge in the loaded case caused by the bullet. I have heard that this could be cured by using a Lee carbide factory crimp die. Has any one tried one of these dies, and can they be used in a Dillon 650 press in place of the Dillon crimp die, or must they be used as a separate operation after the round has been completed in the Dillon.

[n2ipsc]

With the cost of bullets going way up, I decided to give lead a try after many years of shooting only plated. I have tried several brands of 180 t0 200 gr. bullets all measuring .452" and keep getting about 5-8% that will not drop into a case gage. The problem being a slight bulge in the loaded case caused by the bullet. I have heard that this could be cured by using a Lee carbide factory crimp die. Has any one tried one of these dies, and can they be used in a Dillon 650 press in place of the Dillon crimp die, or must they be used as a separate operation after the round has been completed in the Dillon.

Every one of my 650 toolheads has a Lee FCD in the last/crimping station and they work great...

[G-ManBart]

With the cost of bullets going way up, I decided to give lead a try after many years of shooting only plated. I have tried several brands of 180 t0 200 gr. bullets all measuring .452" and keep getting about 5-8% that will not drop into a case gage. The problem being a slight bulge in the loaded case caused by the bullet. I have heard that this could be cured by using a Lee carbide factory crimp die. Has any one tried one of these dies, and can they be used in a Dillon 650 press in place of the Dillon crimp die, or must they be used as a separate operation after the round has been completed in the Dillon.

The Lee FCD might make the ammo work in the gun, but it's really just hiding another problem.

Switching to lead bullets that are .001 larger than jacketed bullets shouldn't cause your ammo to suddenly stop dropping in the case gauge unless they were already on the large side. If you're that close to start with, the slightest bit of fouling in the chamber will cause you major problems.

What kind of dies are you using in the press now? Is this your own brass that you're picking up after shooting it, and if so, what kind of gun, or are you sourcing the brass from somewhere else? Have you tried loading a few of these bullets in a brand new case to see if they'd fit the gauge?

Edited December 10, 2007 by G-ManBart

[wide45]

With cast lead, just run the FCD at your last station. You will be a happy camper.

Jacketed should not need the FCD, but it should not hurt. If it does anything a regular crimp die does not do, you should find out why.

FCD can cause problems with plated. Plated are often improperly sized, and are usually too soft to stand being resized, and maintain case neck tension.

[revchuck]

Bob - I run a Lee FCD in my Dillons as well, BUT...

Just because the ammo doesn't go into the case gauge doesn't mean it won't chamber reliably in your gun. Pull the barrel and chamber check your ammo. Odds are that it'll work fine. The .45 ACP lead bullet ammo I have works fine in the tight chamber of the Bar-Sto barrel in my Commander, but won't drop into a case gauge - or the chambers of my S&W M22-4, which is why I use the FCD.

[TLD]

I use the FCD only because I have too. My Kimber 1911 is susceptible to the bulge from the bullet not going in straight. Even though it might chamber, when the bullet makes the turn into the chamber from the feed ramp, it can slow the slide down enough so that it won't go into battery. The Winchester white box bullets are notorious for this (at least the ones I've bought.)

The FCD takes this bulge out. I don't get the bulge when I load flat based bullets, especially those with a sharp base. Beveled base or rounded like the Ranier Ballistics don't go in straight for me. A friend gave me 50 Zero bullets which are less round and go in much straighter.

Right now I am using 230g round nose, a Redding T7 and RCBS and/or lyman expander dies. I wish I didn't have to use the FCD because it would save me one operation, but until I use up my Ranier bullets, I'm stuck.

Any ideas to make the bullet go in more straight? I've tried all levels of belling, and got the Lyman die that gives more of a step instead of a flare thinking it would allow the bullet to start more straight. That doesn't work as advertised with my setup.

Edited December 10, 2007 by TLD

[Jaxshooter]

A Redding Micrometer Seating Die will start the bullet straight into the case.

[Harmon]

the lee FCD will fix any that are not straight in the case.

Harmon

[Bob McGee]

I want to thank everyone for helping with this problem, I just ordered a Lee factory crimp die from midway. I will post the results in a week or two.

[Flexmoney]

As mentioned, you may not be getting your bullets seated in the case straight and true.

While the FCD will help fix the bad ones...what it is doing is ironing down the bullet/brass. That is not ideal. I'd take measures to ensure I was getting them seated straight and true to start with.

I do use and love the FCD.

In the 650...seating die in station 4 (don't crimp here...back off any crimping functions), FDC in station 5 (seated to "kiss" the shell plate, and then adjusted to give proper crimp)

[KeithB]

The Dillon crimp die doesn't factory crimp like the Lee FCD? i have both

[kevin c]

No, it doesn't and yes, it does.

Both will remove the flare in the case mouth, but my understanding is that the FCD die was made specifically to increase bullet pull by extra crimping/sizing down the loaded case. The extra sizing from their die, which has less of a flare at the base compared to the Dillon dies, also helps to eliminate bulges low down on the case where the flared Dillon dies don't reach. Most action pistoleros use the FCD dies mainly for this second effect. EGW has a similar die which is purpose built for removing expansion near the case head, with even less flare than the FCD.

Here's Lee's own description/explanation:

http://leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/browse...dies-crimp.html

Edited December 20, 2007 by kevin c

[Tokarev]

No, it doesn't and yes, it does.

Both will remove the flare in the case mouth, but my understanding is that the FCD die was made specifically to increase bullet pull by extra crimping/sizing down the loaded case. The extra sizing from their die, which has less of a flare at the base compared to the Dillon dies, also helps to eliminate bulges low down on the case where the flared Dillon dies don't reach. Most action pistoleros use the FCD dies mainly for this second effect. EGW has a similar die which is purpose built for removing expansion near the case head, with even less flare than the FCD.

Here's Lee's own description/explanation:

http://leeprecision.com/cgi/catalog/browse...dies-crimp.html

Depending on who you talk to, the EGW sizing die is nothing more than a repackaged Lee carbide die.

I run a Lee sizing die in stage one of my Hornady and it will resize Glock and HK brass without problems.

[kevin c]

Depending on who you talk to, the EGW sizing die is nothing more than a repackaged Lee carbide die.

Heard that too. Heard also that, whether it's originally a Lee or not, the base of the die is ground down or the die was bored so that there is less flare than on the FCD. Less flare makes for more resizing down low, at the cost of lost tolerance in feeding the case into the die.

Doesn't matter - both reportedly do better than the Dillons for removing base bulge. I have a 9mm FCD in a single stage set up next to my SDB, and can attest to that.

Here's to better chambering ammo

kc

[Bronson7]

A Redding Micrometer Seating Die will start the bullet straight into the case.

Or a Hornady New Dimension Seating Die.

Bronson7

[Rico567]

I agree with "n2ipsc" and like views. I don't really care whether or not the die is "masking another problem" or not. When I started using the FCD, all finished rounds started dropping into the gauge perfectly, all the time...as opposed to 4 or 5 per M not making it. At that rate, I can't believe there's another problem "being masked." They're just random inconsistencies between bullet and case dimensions...and the FCD takes it out, and now I no longer worry about gauging rounds. At about $12 for the FCD, that's a no-brainer.

[Johann the Horrible]

Had endless problems until I got the FCD since then not a single problem in either 9mm or .45. Wish I paid $12 for it in South Africa though.

[KeithB]

i have a Lee FCD in another press, on the occasional cartridge that won't drop in the gauge i run it through the FCD, all fixed

[yoshidaex]

i have a Lee FCD in another press, on the occasional cartridge that won't drop in the gauge i run it through the FCD, all fixed

same here. i have it setup in my xl650 on station 5. No real need to case gauge practice rounds. Match ammo will go thru standard QC checks.

[degenerate023]

i cant believe that Lee makes a Superior product to Dillon....i also have the bulge problem when loading 200gr SWC on my 550....the odd thing is that i dont get that problem when loading 230gr RN with these i get 100% chamber check....well i have a FCD in my drawer that i havent tried yet...guess it cant hurt if so many shooters recommend it

[Johann the Horrible]

Believe me you will not be sorry, it is one of those things that every re-loader should use. I`m so blase about the whole thing that I do not even check my match any more. My carry ammo(Federals, Spears and Corbons) all go through the FCD before they go into the mag.

[bigsaxdog]

i had one, yeah it works. it works by squeezzing(speled wrong, looks cool!) the bullet/neck back to @.470. it also deforms the bullet pretty good by doing this. trashed my accuracy, and lemme tell ya', i can do that just fine all by myself, thank you! flare your cases more, and the bullets will seat better/straighter. lee stuff is junk, the only good thing i've seen is the decapper die. never did the redding seating die for pistol, though i know alot of open guys do. the rifle one is the shizzit....

[DougCarden]

Dave, I hate to have to disagree with you........ But when I was ransom resting ammo for 50 yds I found that there was no "difference" between using the Dillon crimp die and the LFCD.......The groups were the same, no matter if I used jacketed or Lead bullets ( same loads, just different crimps).

Now when I am loading match ammo with jacketed bullets I use Redding dies and again I dont have to case gauge them either, but I do.....If it is lead it gets loaded with a LFCD and then I dont have to check it if I dont have time.

FWIW.......See ya,

DougC

[sig2009]

I had a similar problem with Kead lead bullets. It seems that the diameter of .452 in .45 ACP is a little too wide for the LFCD and in that last crimp station I thought I was going to break the handle on the Dillon pulling down to crimp the bullet. I spoke with George and he suggested I not use the LFCD. I only ordered a sample pack of 100 to try out but my next order I will have him size them to .451 so I can full lenght size them without fear of damaging the press.

[bigsaxdog]

i might be talkin' about the wrong die too....is this the one where the crimp function is a sliding sleeve that's stopped by the screw top gizmo? i think mine had a carbide insert in the bottom of the die and really beat the whole round up pretty good. was using 230gr zero soft lead, so....i think i might be talking about another die. i know lee's got a million styles.....