While shooting with a flashligh in low light

[Full Size]

Ok, this weekend Our local match will be shot in low light conditions. While this is new to me and I have been practicing a lot I am curious how you would reload while holding a light in yor weak hand.

My technique (shooting a Springfield TRP operator) will be holding my Surefire light in my weak hand (left hand) between index and middle finger with base of light pressed against palm to activate. I have been trying to reload while keeping the light in my hand and have also held the light in my mouth during reload.

How do you reload under these conditions? Pros and cons of either way I mentioned?

I'm anxious for your answers!

-Chris

[NMBOpen]

Ok, this weekend Our local match will be shot in low light conditions. While this is new to me and I have been practicing a lot I am curious how you would reload while holding a light in yor weak hand.

My technique (shooting a Springfield TRP operator) will be holding my Surefire light in my weak hand (left hand) between index and middle finger with base of light pressed against palm to activate. I have been trying to reload while keeping the light in my hand and have also held the light in my mouth during reload.

How do you reload under these conditions? Pros and cons of either way I mentioned?

I'm anxious for your answers!

-Chris

Time for the SureFire lanyard on the weak hand wrist. Then drop the light, do the reload, and reacquire the light. It will require practice.

[Steve J]

Ok, this weekend Our local match will be shot in low light conditions. While this is new to me and I have been practicing a lot I am curious how you would reload while holding a light in yor weak hand.

My technique (shooting a Springfield TRP operator) will be holding my Surefire light in my weak hand (left hand) between index and middle finger with base of light pressed against palm to activate. I have been trying to reload while keeping the light in my hand and have also held the light in my mouth during reload.

How do you reload under these conditions? Pros and cons of either way I mentioned?

I'm anxious for your answers!

-Chris

Time for the SureFire lanyard on the weak hand wrist. Then drop the light, do the reload, and reacquire the light. It will require practice.

Man, never turn loose of your equipment. Your Surefire should be in your weak hand between the middle and ring finger. That way you simply reach for your magazine and secure it between your index finger and thumb. Seat it in the magwell and press your weak hand against the left side of your grip again. Light comes back on automatically under the pressure of your grip and you're back on target. Super fast. Super easy.

edited because I forgot which finger was which momentarily.

Edited December 4, 2007 by Steve J

[Joe4d]

MY background.. The Virginia IDPA Indoor has 5 total and I mean total darkness stages. I have shot this match 5 times and SO'd it twice. So I have watched several hundred flashlight stages run. I reccommend wrist lanyard drop light reload a flip of the wrist puts it back in your hand. Just takes practice. I know some guys who use a neck lanyard and drop it. I'd reccommend getting rid of the "Tactical Switch" in favor of one that clicks and stays on. I see lots of guys lights go off during shooting. THere is no point to that momentary bs in match use. You also better do some live fire training before settling on that finger hold of yours. I have seen dozens of magazines get launched with that technique. When the flashlight bumps the mag release. All in all the best method I have seen that causes the least problems is to practice strong hand only shooting. Hold the flashlight in your weak hand fist bring it on top of your strong arm. Far enugh back to not get wacked with the slide. at the reload just drop light on a very short lanyard.

[oregonshooter]

From SouthNarc's Lowlight PDF

Edited December 5, 2007 by oregonshooter

[Steve J]

MY background.. The Virginia IDPA Indoor has 5 total and I mean total darkness stages. I have shot this match 5 times and SO'd it twice. So I have watched several hundred flashlight stages run. I reccommend wrist lanyard drop light reload a flip of the wrist puts it back in your hand. Just takes practice. I know some guys who use a neck lanyard and drop it. I'd reccommend getting rid of the "Tactical Switch" in favor of one that clicks and stays on. I see lots of guys lights go off during shooting. THere is no point to that momentary bs in match use. You also better do some live fire training before settling on that finger hold of yours. I have seen dozens of magazines get launched with that technique. When the flashlight bumps the mag release. All in all the best method I have seen that causes the least problems is to practice strong hand only shooting. Hold the flashlight in your weak hand fist bring it on top of your strong arm. Far enugh back to not get wacked with the slide. at the reload just drop light on a very short lanyard.

Click it on and leave it on at the Arkansas Winter Classic IDPA Indoor Championship and you will rack up several procedural penalties per stage. Shooting one hand only while holding the flashlight off in the other is certainly one of the three basic techniques, but it is the slowest. It won't get you very far in a match.

Never drop your equipment. Period. The lanyard is there so that if you do accidently drop it, you won't loose it or leave it behind.

[konkapot]

The easiest way...the way that works the best for most trainees.... is quite simply to put it in your pocket. You know where it is, your hands are free for either a reload/malf clearance, and it's still in your possession when you move after your reload.

That being said.........the technique posted by Oregonshooter looks really good. Would take some practice to be able to do it right....but I am definately gonna have to try it.

Oregonshooter you or whoever created it should hurry up and name it so you can make $$ off of it! It looks very solid. Great pics too!

FY42385

Does it work when the shooter has very small hands?

Edited December 5, 2007 by konkapot

[Blueridge]

Okay, how would you reload a revolver while using a flashlight? All this talk about reloading autos is fine, but except for the mention of putting it in your pocket has little relavance.

Edited December 5, 2007 by Blueridge

[oregonshooter]

konkapot,

SouthNarc is the owner of http://shivworks.com and is still a Narc thus his name is not used for PERSEC. He teaches the best ECQB class I have done or even read of and is not about money, but giving people the tools he learned the hard way on the street.

The method works very well, specially with smaller lights like the G2/E2 series from SureFire.

Read the whole PDF, good stuff!

Edited December 5, 2007 by oregonshooter

[AlamoShooter]

I dont know nothing realy I'm a toy gun kind of guy. Not much into tacktical shooting. But

I did my first night shoot a few weeks ago and did something no one had seen or herd of.

I knew I would have to make a reload on every stage = four of them were over 28 rounds.

What I did was hand the light off my stong hand wirst with a shortend lanyard. when I made the draw my left hand went under the strong wrist and grabed the light to hit the monmentary switch. I shot right wrist over my left wrist, when I need to reload My left hand just droped the light grabed a new mag with about the same speed as normal reload under 1.5 sec

The left hand grabed the light and went back to the same hold =Stong hand suported shooting.

A few shots I did not need the light and i just shot regular grip with the light dangeling down.

When I was useing the light I could point it very easy

Edited December 5, 2007 by AlamoShooter

[Nik Habicht]

I'd reccommend getting rid of the "Tactical Switch" in favor of one that clicks and stays on. I see lots of guys lights go off during shooting. THere is no point to that momentary bs in match use. You also better do some live fire training before settling on that finger hold of yours. I have seen dozens of magazines get launched with that technique. When the flashlight bumps the mag release. All in all the best method I have seen that causes the least problems is to practice strong hand only shooting. Hold the flashlight in your weak hand fist bring it on top of your strong arm. Far enugh back to not get wacked with the slide. at the reload just drop light on a very short lanyard.

I've shot a few dark stages at the Smith & Wesson IDPA Winter Nationals over the years, and three in the dark house in Barry at USPSA Nationals. Lots of shooters dumped their mags, so definitely practice live fire, in weird body positions. Lanyards are nice -- even if you're not planning on dropping the light. Click switches are terrific if legal.

Now for one learned the hard way at S&W: Have a spare light! Having to shoot six rounds at three targets in total darkness after your bulb blows really sucks.....

Oh --- I'm pretty sure that some of the fastest runs at the USPSA Nationals were made by shooters who shot SHO.....

[chrisa006]

ALWAYS have a spare light. I had a friend shoot all but the first shot at S&W winter nationals by muzzle flash, borrow one from someone for the stage and stick it in your back pocket.

The retention tech. I use is a little different but has helped me win expert in the above match in 2 divisions.

I stick the light between my little finger and ring finger in my strong hand. The ring finger and middle finger stay on the grip and the light pretty much just sticks between the inside of the little finger and the back/side of the ring finger. I have small hands which may help make the light stay in place. After the reload the light is right there to grab. If you have to do a tach. or retention reload this gives you way more ability to handle the mag.

I am not sure how you would use the lanyard as on a lot of the dark stages you start with the light in a pocket/holster or in a drawer.

[FranDoc]

http://www.first-light-usa.com/liberator.p...;PRODUCTS_NAV=1

I don't know if this is 'tactical match legal', but it handles BEAUTIFULLY in real life.

[gringop]

While not as fast as using a lanyard or a pinky hold, you can always clamp the light in your strong side armpit when reloading or malf clearing. Most administrative manipulations can be managed with your elbow touching your side and the light secure in your armpit.

For shooting, if you don't have night sights, you can get a good illumination of the sights and targets at the same time by using a cheek weld. Hold the light pointing out the bottom of your fist, thumb on the tailcap and place the heel of your palm on your cheek or the side of your jaw. The light will track with your head and does not jump around with recoil. If you have good SHO skills this works great.

Gringop

[rvb]

If I'm not shooting SHO, I use the surefire hold, FL between index and middle finger, tail cap on palm. I think many people overcomplicate the procedure. Reach down, grab a mag, seat it,and get back to shooting. If the flashlight fits you (not too big, or I use a G2Z that gives a little better grip) it won't fall out of between your fingers. Depending on the light and your hand size you may not get a perfect "index finger on nose of top bullet" hold on the new mag, but you'll get a good enough grip to seat it just fine. I'm only slightly slower reloading w/ a flashlight. Easier w/ a single-stack. I tried a bunch of techniques and that's fastest for me. Your grip on the new mag may take some practice. If I can start FL in hand I'll put the lanyard on for insurance.

-rvb

Edited December 5, 2007 by rvb

[Steve J]

If I'm not shooting SHO, I use the surefire hold, FL between index and middle finger, tail cap on palm. I think many people overcomplicate the procedure. Reach down, grab a mag, seat it,and get back to shooting. If the flashlight fits you (not too big, or I use a G2Z that gives a little better grip) it won't fall out of between your fingers. Depending on the light and your hand size you may not get a perfect "index finger on nose of top bullet" hold on the new mag, but you'll get a good enough grip to seat it just fine. I'm only slightly slower reloading w/ a flashlight. Easier w/ a single-stack. I tried a bunch of techniques and that's fastest for me. Your grip on the new mag may take some practice. If I can start FL in hand I'll put the lanyard on for insurance.

-rvb

+1 of course. While there's nothing wrong with the other techniques mentioned above as long as you practice until it's second nature, the basic problem with the lanyard around your wrist or neck and is that in the matches I've competed in and the ones I MD, your flashlight must be stowed at the start of the stage with hands relaxed at sides. Wasting time fumbling with the lanyard after the start is just not an option. Now, if there's a belt holder made for it, the Liberator flashlight in FranDoc's post looks really cool, and it seems you could use you normal freestyle grip.

[Tom Mainus]

As long as you are the first shooter, stuff it in your mouth and go. Depending on the rules and the sanitary issue, I did this the first year we had the dark house at Barry. The following years they stipulated that you could not put it in your mouth. For a revolver re-load it is best to tie the lanyard around your wrist, you get enough light to see what you are doing.

Tom

Edited December 6, 2007 by Tom Mainus

[Joe4d]

I see alot depends on the COF's , I have allways started light in hand but off, and never seen you have to turn it of and on during the stage. So I guess you have to practice a few different techniques until you get ahold of COF's

[oregonshooter]

Not trying to stir the "tactical vs. gamer" thing, but I am really finding some approaches here very interesting.

When I heard "stuff it in your mouth" I felt my teeth chipping and cringed.

[Catfish]

Man, never turn loose of your equipment. Your Surefire should be in your weak hand between the middle and ring finger. That way you simply reach for your magazine and secure it between your index finger and thumb. Seat it in the magwell and press your weak hand against the left side of your grip again. Light comes back on automatically under the pressure of your grip and you're back on target. Super fast. Super easy.

edited because I forgot which finger was which momentarily.

Steve nailed it.

[wide45]

Oh --- I'm pretty sure that some of the fastest runs at the USPSA Nationals were made by shooters who shot SHO.....

I know one guy with a top ten dark house stage that just let the light dangle from the lanyard, while he shot with his normal grip.

[Steve J]

Oh --- I'm pretty sure that some of the fastest runs at the USPSA Nationals were made by shooters who shot SHO.....

I know one guy with a top ten dark house stage that just let the light dangle from the lanyard, while he shot with his normal grip.

That's all well an good and within the rules in that venue, but this thread, I believe, is discussing night matches where using a tactical white light correctly (e.g. illuminating the target in order to identify it as a threat and only while engaging it) is part of the game, and not doing so will earn you a procedural penaly. If that's not the type of match Full Size was asking about, then my apologies for the assumption.

[Full Size]

Oh --- I'm pretty sure that some of the fastest runs at the USPSA Nationals were made by shooters who shot SHO.....

I know one guy with a top ten dark house stage that just let the light dangle from the lanyard, while he shot with his normal grip.

That's all well an good and within the rules in that venue, but this thread, I believe, is discussing night matches where using a tactical white light correctly (e.g. illuminating the target in order to identify it as a threat and only while engaging it) is part of the game, and not doing so will earn you a procedural penaly. If that's not the type of match Full Size was asking about, then my apologies for the assumption.

You got it right Steve!

Thanks to eveyone for the great replies. Through hours of dry practice, numerous flashlights, and sore fingers I have decided to stick with the Surefire technique and keeping the light in hand during the reload. My draw time is about the same now with a FL. Re-loads are a tad slower but workable.

Thanks again for all the info

-Full Size

[Sac Law Man]

What we teach in Law Enforcement is to place the light under your strong side arm pit. After you reload, the light is ready and in the same postion you left it which will ensure you grab it exactly as you left it, i.e. same grip. Works very well with full size lights (SLX-20) and takes a little more practice with smaller lights. If you are kneeling, you can place the light in the bend behind the knee,,, light in left hand, light goes behind left knee. Hope this helps.

Also, get rid of the lanyards, more trouble than what they are worth. If you have access to a pin to a grenade or tear gas canaster, or any similiar type ring use that in place of the lanyard. Place your index finger through it, very fast and efficient.

Both of these methods are proven and used every day.

Edited December 6, 2007 by Sac Law Man