First Ipsc Gun Help

[Guest qstick]

Hello all,

First, thank you all for great advice concerning the Springfield 1911's from a thread a couple weeks ago, it helped a ton.

I am still considering one of the Springfield 1911 guns, but budget has become a little bit of an issue. I'm ready to step into the world of ipsc and idpa competitions, but I don't think my Ruger MK II would do so well ;-)

I really am a fan of all the 1911 style pistols and I think I would like to start with a .45 due to the wide array of bullets available and the relatively forgiving nature of the ammo during reloading. My budget is defineately low, I also need to purchase reloading equipment, but i am probably going to start with a single stage so I can learn the basics, and it seems that some of the RCBS package deals would allow me a chance to get some of the equipment that i will still need with a progressive down the road.

Back to the gun......I would like to stay around $4-500 if there is something that would be suitable in that range. If necessary, I can probably spend about an extra $100, but that will be about it. I am sure there are used deals out there, but I am a little hesitant to purchase used for fear of not really knowing exactly what I am looking for. If anyone has a gun that they would like to sell on this board, feel free to contact me at zzh@visuallink.com

There are a few online retailers that ahve the basic Springfield 1911 "loaded" model in stainless at 610, but I can;t seem to find anyone that would transfer and accept shipment for less than $80 here in Virginia. is stainless preferred? Should I be looking at a decent production gun instead of the 1911?

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks,

Zach

[EricW]

If your budget is tight, look long and hard at the XD. You can buy two XD's for the price of a decent 45. I know it's not a 1911, but for $400, you're not going to find a better blaster out of the box. Then, you'll have enough dough left for mags, holster, and pouches, and maybe a decent lot of ammo at a gun show. I just saw the XD in person today and was totally impressed. If you're starting out, you really need a blaster that just runs out of the box so you can focus on the shooting.

[Run n Gun]

Eric’s right. One of the guys I practice with said that his son bought one (XD-40) and he was going to also. Now this is an otherwise normal L-10 shooter and for HIM to buy something that wasn’t designed by John M. Browning is, in it’s self quite an endorsement.

The next practice after listening to several choruses of “XD’s are great XD’s are great,” I asked him if he brought it along. “Well haul that puppy out and we’ll see”. He did, and… XD’s are great XD’s are great!

I can’t see myself getting rid of my 1911, but I just MIGHT buy one as a carry gun.

Ed

[Flexmoney]

Look for a used Dillon SBD (Square Deal . Don't even mess around with anything else. If you decide to shoot enough to get good, then loading on a single-stage is like kicking yourself in the nads.

Springfield makes a "mil-spec". Great gun to start with...and improve later (the grip safety would be the first thing I'd change). A local store was selling them on special for $400. Very tempting.

Of course...the cheapest way would be to find a used Glock in 9mm and then shoot the Winchester Val-u-paks from Walmart (hold off on reloading). That would be good enough for Master scores...or better (if you did your part).

[George]

I was gonna second the Glock 9mm option as the best route for least bucks, when I decided to go take a look at the XD 9 (I think 9mm is going to be the best choice for a number of reasons that are beyond the scope of this moment). I have to agree that this thing looks like it will really do the job here, and I'm normally a big Glock/Sig fan for "outa da box" blasters.

Here is a $400 out the door offer with a hi-cap mag purchase coupon (the XD 9 will run on Beretta 92 hi-cap mags! WOW!!).

http://www.impactguns.com/store/springfield_xd9.html

You can get some cheap leather (er, plastic) from Blade Tech, or Fobus to carry the blaster, and four mags (you can carry less than 4 mags if'n ya get the hi-cap mags). Don't forget to get a pistol belt that holds the holster and mag holders securely.

If this thing really shoots, then I would agree that we have a new winner, and champion here for the cheapest startup rig.

Regards,

[rhino]

If someone really wants to go with a 1911A1, but their budget is limited, one option is to go with something like an Argentine Sistema Colt Modelo 1927. It's a 1911A1 through and through and an excellent starting point for a customized gun.

A guy could snag one (from someone like Adam Firestone at http://www.cruffler.com) and then modify and customize as needed and as the budget allows.

[Carlos]

Since you are in Virginia; you are fortunate enough to have grand masters and master class shooters in the area including Phil Strader and Todd Jarret. Phil owns a range and store that features STI, Kimber and Springfield armory 1911s and has the ability to order you nearly any make you might want. Phil's store, Shooters Paradise (www.shooters-paradise), also carries the Springfield XD, Glock, CZ and HK as well as a few other brands. There are several different .45 1911s for rent as well so you can try out before you buy. Stop by and if Phil is not there (he is still a full time training officer for Capitol Police) ask for Brent or James. There will be another introduction to IPSC/USPSA class starting soon; if you want a comprehensive introduction to IPSC, this is the best class available.

If for whatever reason you cannot find what you need through Phil's shop, try Virginia Arms in Manassas. The owner, Bernie Connester runs a very professional shop and his staff are usually familiar w/ IPSC as a couple of them are former NRA Range ROs who helped run the matches.

You are welcome to try out one of my guns too. Send me a PM if you are interested. DVC

Douglas Johnson

TY-44934

[Guest qstick]

Thanks for the great information, I actually considered the XD for a while since I love the way that it feels. I've shot hundreds of rounds through a friend of mone's xd9. I do like the 1911 for the smooth single action trigger, but I think you guys might be right about starting with this gun considering my budget. I didn;t think about the extra magazines, holster, etc...

On to a few XD questions....for production class, is the 9mm or the .40 preferred? I would think the 9mm due to the easier to manage recoil? If I choose the .40, I could shoot L10 also, but probably be out gunned? Is production the best place to get my feet wet?

Also, is the 5" tactical model preferred to the 4" service model? Both seem to be available in my area and they are both very similair price. I am leaning towards the 5" due to its ability to handle recoil a little better (I think) and the extra distance between the sights since I seem to feel a little more confident with a longer sight radius. Hmmm, decisions.

Thanks again for all the great information,

Zach

[Guest qstick]

One other question,

since I would like to get started in reloading at this time, how much more challenging is 9mm or .40 than 45ACP?

Thanks again,

Zach

[EricW]

Zach,

I'd get the 5" XD if only for the extra sight radius.

As for the caliber, you need to decide whether you want to shoot Lim10 with this particular gun. If the Production shooters at your club are fairly competitive, you might be happy going up the ladder there. If not, you'll want to run with the Big Dogs sooner or later. Another thing to consider is the cost of ammo/reloading. Everything is cheaper with 9mm. Also keep in mind that there's nothing morally wrong with shooting minor in Lim10. It will just focus you on getting your A's.

I don't think you're going to see a huge recoil management advantage with either shooting minor loads, but I could be wrong. There's no right answer or wrong answer, just go with your gut and what you think your actual needs will be for the next 12-18 months. After that, you'll probably see everthing differently.

FWIW - I think 9mm is the easiest cartridge to load for. You're always going to load it near the max and just forget about it. There's nothing really substantive to "fix" with the cartridge.

45 ACP is the "hardest" just in that most stock 1911's are picky feeders and the typical unthroated, tight-chambered gun will quickly point out your errors to you. The other "hard" thing about 45 is the litany of loading options available to you. It's great if you like to tinker with ammo, but that's not my personality type. I just pick one load that works well enough and get on with it.

Pick the road that you think is the grooviest and it will be the right choice.

E

[Guest qstick]

One more small question...sorry for all the questions, but you guys are extremely helpful

I called the gun shop again to place an order, and the 5" tactical model is only available in .40. A quick call to springfield and they said thatt he 5" 9mm model isn;t going to be available for a bit since they are having a little trouble getting the slide to function properly? They also said the sight radius of the 4" was 5.9" and the 5" was 6.1". However, there is a 4" 9mm model with tridigon night sights that has the same 6.1" radius as the tactical model. Are there any other advantages by having hte .40 on a 5" barrel instead of the 9mm in 4"? What is your opinion about the better choice between the 9mm and the .40 in the two different lengths?

I'm sorry that came out so confusing, if anyone was able to uderstand that I appreciate all of your help.

Thanks again, I'll try to stop asking a thousand questions

Zach

[Duane Thomas]

Go for the 4" 9mm. For reloading, in 9mm the cases and bullets are less expensive than .40, and if you want cheap factory ammo the 9mm will likewise be considerably more affordable. Recoil-wise you could load a .40 down to a 9mm level of "kick," but if you ever have to run factory ammo, the .40 will be quite a bit more vigorous than the Nine. Run in Production. Everything scores Minor in Production, so there's no reason to use anything with more recoil than a 9mm.

And please, FORGET the single-stage press idea, it's money down the drain. If you want to shoot enough to get really good, you absolutely need a progressive press. The Dillon Square Deal B has been awfully good to me.

[Flexmoney]

Story Teller speaks good medicine!

[Duane Thomas]

Oh blush.

[warpspeed]

qstick,

You are getting some great advise here......

If I had a budget restraint, I'd shoot production, probably with an XD.

The 9mm is way cheaper to load. Brass, bullets, powder, etc.

You might look on ebay for used Square deal from Dillon in 9mm or check our host for a new one.

[skeeter]

have you seen the charles daly 1911's the one at a shop here is 425 has a beavertail and novak sights. looks like a hell of a deal to me.

[Duane Thomas]

You might look on ebay for used Square deal from Dillon in 9mm or check our host for a new one.

There's an SDB for sale in the Classifieds right now.

[kellyn]

I would vote for the XD 9mm. I had the pleasure to put about 500 rounds through TGO's 5 in 9mm XD and it worked flawlessly. But if you can't get one, you can't get one so I get a 4 inch.

[rhino]

have you seen the charles daly 1911's the one at a shop here is 425 has a beavertail and novak sights. looks like a hell of a deal to me.

I agree, o Great Green Glocking Gazoo!

While they are not the top of the line made in the Philippines, most of them should be serviceable weapons. Another similar bargain is the Rock Island Armory (not to be confused with Rock River Arms), also from the Philippines.

[Guest qstick]

I made the plunge this weekend. I purchased a new XD9 and put about 350 rounds through it on Saturday. What a grewat gun, it really was a pleasure to shoot and it definately shot better than the owner....but I am working on that with the help of Brian's amazing book

I noticed the SD2 in the classifieds, but I am still a little hesitant to take the plunge into reloading right now, I guess I still need a little time to keep thinking about it. Starting off with a progressive flat out scares me a bit. There really isn;t anyone nearby that I know of who could help me with reloading, and the thought of so many functions happening at the same time is a little intimidating. It seems there are so many variables to keep an eye on (oal, bullet seating, charge, etc...) that it would be a little easier to monitor one step at a time.

The other factor is the cost, even with a used SD2, I would still have to purchase all the accesories and measures. If I were to start with a kit (like the RCBS Pock Chucker Supreme) I would have everything except the dies and calipers, and when I felt comfortable, I could insert a SD2 inot the mix.

I really appreciate and value all of the great advice I have gotten, so if this really is a drastic mistake, please tell me. I could always wait a little longer and keep saving.

Thanks again,

Zach

[jhgtyre]

You might check out some reloading videos to help you make up your mind. Competition Reloading is available in Brian's store.

-ld

[Flexmoney]

You could just buy the Wincester Val-u-Paks at Walmart.

$11 per hundred. That is the same as $5.50/box. Pretty cheap. Almost makes reloading not worth the effort.

If you do buy a press GET A DILLON . If you get the SDB, you could always run it one round at a time.

It would be a good idea to get a reloading manual or two before you ever start. Most give good information on reloading. I think the NRA also offers a reloading class...though I have never seen one anywhehere.

[j1b]

I had a long post typed - then realized it was too late - so I deleted it. Hope the XD is working great for you - their are incredible little blasters!

JB

[Duane Thomas]

Starting off with a progressive flat out scares me a bit. There really isn;t anyone nearby that I know of who could help me with reloading, and the thought of so many functions happening at the same time is a little intimidating.

No need to be scared. The owner's manual that comes with the SDB talks you through loading your first rounds, and it's a marvel of understandability. If that fails - and it won't - Dillon has an 800 number staffed with knowledgeable and helpful people who get paid money to answer any questions you have.

The other factor is the cost, even with a used SD2, I would still have to purchase all the accesories and measures.

It'll pay for itself in short order, versus paying the price for factory ammo. Of course, Walmart Val-U-Paks are always an option, and one of the really nice things about choosing the 9mm as your gun's caliber.

[Run n Gun]

To add a little to DT’s fine advice; if you buy a new SDB the dies come setup, ready to run right out of the box! Being an experienced re-loader I “tweaked” the settings to my preferences but they’d have worked just fine the way they were. The exception is the powder measure THAT has to be setup to work with the powder/load you want to use.

Buying from BE he (correctly) recommends a “first purchase” set of options but you don’t NEED a strong mount ($53-54) or a bullet tray ($30). I don’t use them and I get by just fine. You (we) can always add them later.

Just go slow at first, UNDERSTAND each step before moving on to the next. An afternoon reading the book and a little “playing” with it will have you loading safe, high quality ammo in no time.

If you get in a jam you can email me or come back to the forum, there’s always someone that’ll help.