gunboy Posted March 11, 2003 Share Posted March 11, 2003 Very interested in getting into IPSC with a 45 that I curently own and have loaded for. I have always used Bullseye with 200swcl for a really accurate, tame load but I see that won't come close to cutting the power factor. What bullet weights and types would you recommend on a limited gun? What powder throws consistent (Dillon 550) and will make the power factor? I hope there is a Bullseye load as I have a lot of it but if that is not the way to go fire away. thank you p.s. I tried putting this on the newbie forum but it was down. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillL223 Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 There's nothing wrong with a 200 gr. SWCL but I got tired of cleaning lead out of the barrel and switched to a 200 gr. Berry's Flatpoint. With 4.8 of Clays loaded to 1.195" oal, I'm geting 838 fps for 168 power factor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Run n Gun Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 BillL223, Do you mean staight Clays? If so, isn't that a little hot? With 200 grain bullet, I thought 4.3 or 4.4 was MAX. A little straight Clays goes a long way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildman Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 Try 5.0 grains of bullseye, and get someone to run it over a chrongraph. If recall correctly, that was Bill Wilson's load for years. If that's not dirty enough, go to 6.0-6.2 grains of Unique with 200 gr SWC's, and check it over a chrono in your gun. I've got 16 pounds of Unique to use up, and will look at the latest, greatest new formulations then. I need the practice anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrianH Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 Back in ancient times I loved the 200 over Win. Super Target. I'm not even sure if they make that anymore, but it was my favorite FAST powder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 i'm loading 230 gr. fmjs over 5.5 gr. of W231. That gets me into the low 170s out of a 4.5 " barreled Glock 21. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TBF Posted March 12, 2003 Share Posted March 12, 2003 5.0 gr. Bullseye under 200lswc, used that one alot, and as I recall so did Bill Wilson. Alot of very fine soot but it comes off fairly easily. Old unique is the dirtiest powder ever in light loads, like burning diesel, have not tried the new stuff. Travis F. PS: this load made old power factor, it has since been lowered. (Edited by TBF at 1:40 pm on Mar. 12, 2003) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BamBam Posted March 13, 2003 Share Posted March 13, 2003 With a 5" barrel STI and 200 grain jacketed round nose bullets from West Coast I have found the following: 5.1 gr TiteGroup = 167 PF 5.8 W231 = 165 PF 4.5 Clays = 167 PF For major loads around 165 PF in 230 grain jacketed you can try: 4.4 gr Titegroup 4.0 Clays 4.9 W231 4.3 Bullseye Does anyone know the amount of powder for 165 PF loads using WST and N320 powder for both the 200 and 230 grain jacketed bullets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrguar Posted March 23, 2003 Share Posted March 23, 2003 If you like shooting 200's in lead.... A very nice load is 5.5-6.0 gr of Solo 1250 loaded to 1.250..on top of a federal 150's it in very soft shooting and a nice clean powder....if you shoot a lot of bullseye or unique you will really appreciate the Solo Powders...and the Clays Also..... My favorite load for the 45 is a 255 LRNFP over Solo 1000 with federal 150's similar loads with Clays also Like 3.6 - 4.0 GR....another soft clean shooter.... Joe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mgmcaleer Posted May 26, 2003 Share Posted May 26, 2003 I shoot 5.5 grns of V.V. N320 with a Berry's Manufacturing 185 gr. HBRN. with an OAL of 1.260 in Limited 10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 GunBoy: you are on the right track w/ what you have: SWCs - (since they obviously function in your 1911) & bullets in the 200 to 185 range w/ the fastest powder you can safely use to make major (Bullseye is FAST, thus equals soft). If you don't mind using lead, go w/ it. I switched to plated at a slightly greater cost per thousand. My data for straight Clays & Titegroup agrees /BamBam since I use the same bullet - plated roundnose 200 from Westcoast. I load it to 1.260" OAL. When loading the westcoast plated SWCs to 1.145" OAL, I backed off .1 to .2 grains of clays to meet new lower 165 PF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Jake Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 I use a 200gn. Redline Lead Round Nose Bullet over 4.5 gns. of Clay and a OAL of 1.250" This give a Power Factor of about 167. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Singlestack Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 I use 5.0g VN320 behind a 200g LSWC @ 1.245 oal. Very reliable over the VooDoo machine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted May 27, 2003 Share Posted May 27, 2003 Carlos Fast = soft???? Not where I live, and not with heavy bullets. Maybe with 155 gr and kind of, sort of, maybe with 185gr, but not with 200gr + Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 4.7-gr. Hodgdon's Titegroup, OAL 1.250" gives me almost exactly 850 fps for a 170 pf - as I've said many times before. <Oh the shame of repeating myself!> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted May 28, 2003 Share Posted May 28, 2003 5.1 gr TiteGroup = 167 PF BamBam, That load seems a little hot to only be giving you 167 pf. 4.7-gr. is book max in the Laser-Cast load manual, and should be giving you right around 850 fps for a 170 pf from a 5" barrel. In my experience, the velocity info in the LC load manual is spot on. The Hodgdon manual is more generous in its grainage - 4.8-gr. is the recommended starting load, and you can go all the way up to 5.4-gr. but it still agrees on the velocities you can expect from a particular charge. I would expect 5.1-gr. of Titegroup to be giving you 910-920 fps and a 180-plus pf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carlos Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Tightloop wrote: "Carlos, Fast = soft???? Not where I live, and not with heavy bullets. Maybe with 155 gr and kind of, sort of, maybe with 185gr, but not with 200gr +" Maybe I was misunderstood. What I meant was that w/ equal bullets weights, faster burning powders on the burn rate chart will shoot softer. Example: load you favorite 230 or 200 to the same 165 PF over 1) Red Dot (fast) 2) Green Dot (medium) or 3) Blue dot (slow). At 165 powerfactor, the RedDot will feel the softest, the greendot will kick, and the blue dot will feel the worst. You could also try this in .45 w/ Clays, Universal Clays and International. Straight Clays will be the most soft given the same PF. Try it loading 9mm 147s to just above minor w/ V V N350, N340, N330, N320, and N310 (no, you will not find published data for N310 & 147s) then tell us what shoots most soft. I have done it w/ all of those besides N330 and I stand by what I said; fast=soft. We are talking minimum velocity to meet PF here, no more. Anyone else care to add their experience here? GunBoy - I won't try to talk you out of using lead since you use it already, it works, and it costs less (can't argue w/ cost - but please watch out for your health) and I don't see a problem w/ Bullseye, although I prefer straight Clays for .45 because it is clean. Again, I think you are on the right track to a competitive USPSA load for .45. Tell us what you discover. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 Carlos I am a believer in tailoring your powder and bullet to give the softest felt recoil. Admittedly, I am from the old school, but generally speaking, the heavier the bullet, the slower your powder needs to be to burn efficiently. To me, efficiently means soft. It is more noticeable in rifle cases, so take the following example: 375 H&H 300 gr Nosler Partition you are trying to make a velocity of 2550fps. You can load 68.0 gr of IMR 4064 77.0 gr of IMR 4350 81.1 gr of MRP Since this is a heavy for caliber bullet, the 4064 load will recoil the worst, the 4350 in the middle and the MRP the least. If you don't think so, load some up and give it a whirl, I have. The same thing should happen in pistol cartridges, but to a lesser extent. Heavy bullet, fast powder, sharp recoil. Take the same cartridge and load to get 2800 fps with a 250 gr bullet. 66.4 gr of IMR 3031 will get you there 70.3 gr of IMR 4064 will get you there. 76.0 gr of IMR 4350 will get you there, and since MRP is way too slow for this bullet there is no listing The felt recoil of the 3031 load will be sharper than either of the other two, because it is faster. You have to tailor the powder and the bullet. In my 375, with a 300 gr bullet the most efficient is IMR 4350, clean, medium recoil excellent accuracy. With the 250 gr bullet IMR 4064 is more efficient, cleaner burning, ok recoil and good accuracy. I have shot a 250 over 76.0 of IMR 4350 but it is very dirty with that bullet and the muzzle flash is substantial I am sure there is more than one way to skin a cat, but if the law of physics is the same now as I remember it, fast powder and heavy bullets give harsh recoil. a 230 gr LRN over 4.7 of Bullseye is harder recoiling than 5.6 W231. The Bullseye is cleaner but the slide speed is faster,(it seems to me), and both these are cleaner and better than 6.4 gr of Unique. Pick the bullet you wish to shoot, find a tolerable amount of dirt you are willing to accept, and go for a powder that falls into the middle of the pack (as far as burn rate is concerned) and see if it gives the accuracy you need. Shooting .45 I have never found a fast powder like Bullseye or a slow powder like Unique that I really enjoyed shooting, it was always something in the middle. In my day is was WW452AA, which became Super Target, or so they tell me. Maybe your experience is different. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted May 29, 2003 Share Posted May 29, 2003 The Hodgdon manual is more generous in its grainage - 4.8-gr. is the recommended starting load, and you can go all the way up to 5.4-gr. Hodgdon's 45ACP data is pretty hot stuff. In the dark ages, before I had a chronograph, I loaded up some 5.5 gr. loads of Universal Clays to shoot in my stock series 70. Max charge was listed at 6.0 grains for a 230 gr. bullet, so I backed it off the recommended 10%. Those loads turned out to be so damned hot I thought my gun was going to come apart. I stupidly loaded up a couple hundred too. I shot my way through them, but ended up with a nice, bloody hole in the web of my hand from the hammer bite. The rest of Hodgdon's data seems to be right in line with what I'd expect of a max. load, or even slightly conservative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 Yeah, after checking out their .45 ACP data, I pretty much came to the conclusion it was useless. It's the Laser-Cast load manual for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ktulu Posted May 30, 2003 Share Posted May 30, 2003 This is the data from my last chrono run. I'm working up to a 165 power factor. Berry's Hollow Backed RN 185 grain, Remington cases, CCI 300 Large Pistol Primers, 5.6 grains Hodgdon Tightgroup, 1.24" OAL, 5" bbl 865.9 893.5 873 910.5 866.1 869.6 896.2 883.3 862.3 893.8 Average = 881.42 Standard Deviation = 16.39300664 Standard Deviation "P" = 15.5517716 Power Factor = 163,063 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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