.40S&W 165gr vs 180gr when both have same Power Factor

[WickedBag]

I picked up some test ammo at a local gun show from a well known reloading company. I was looking for .40 S&W and I picked up their 165gr/1050fps and their 180gr/950fps reloads. The power factor comes out to 173250 vs 171000 respectively. They consider their 165gr reload to be their "IPSC Major" load and said it was very popular with the competition shooters. I shot these two reloads a while back using a Sig 229 and I could not detect any difference in the feel between the two with that setup.

I'm trying to figure out why I would shoot the higher PF in a lighter bullet. Searching for info has given me the impression that the 180gr reload might use a faster burning powder vs the 165gr reload and that it all comes down to a shooter's "feel" preference. I'm guessing that people were looking to shoot the 165gr bullet, but still make major?

Edited November 1, 2007 by WickedBag

[bruce282]

It's all about what you (and your gun) like. In 9MM you 115gr vs 147gr. Some folks like the snap of a 115, I prefer the recoil of the 147. I've shot 165 and 180 gr WWB and much prefer the heavier bullet.

YMMV

Bruce

[yoshidaex]

the 165 should have a snappier recoil while the 180 should be a bit softer. when its all said and done it boils down to personal preference IMHO.

Edited November 1, 2007 by yoshidaex

[Joe4d]

Most factory .40 180's are loaded to 180-190 pf or higher in 5" guns. Winchester and Federal ball 165's squeek by at about 167pf, There is a very noticable difference in recoil. Many non reloaders buying ammo at Wally world or other discount places have grown acustomed to the lighter recoil of 165's without really knowing or understanding why, so when they go to a show and buy a bunch of ammo they expect to see 165's on the label, The Vendor is giving customers what they want. I have allways prefered the lightest bullet that will make power factor while staying subsonic.

[benny hill]

I shoot the 165 jhp in my fat free 6" because I like things happening faster.

[G-ManBart]

You may want to chronograph that ammo out of your gun. The 229 has a barrel that's shorter than what was probably used when they tested it, so it's unlikely to be as fast as the box lists it at.

[open17]

I see WWB mentioned----watch it if you are going to be chrono'd at a match!

I checked WWB 165 gr and 180 gr FMJ's before Nationals in June. Guns were a Glock

22 and Glock 35, both factory barrels.

180 gr made major in both guns.

165 gr made major in the G35, but did NOT make major in the G22.

YMMV, Bill

[WickedBag]

I will definitely need to re-do some test firing of the different factory loads. I'm looking to test the water in "Limited" this weekend. I was sure I had test fired both 165gr factory loads(WWB and American Eagle Federal) and I remember thinking at the time that they "seemed" hotter/harsher than the regular 180 loads. I'm currently stocked up with Blazer Brass 180's so I'll probably just shoot that.

[Joe4d]

I just picked up 2 boxes of WWB 180's, they felt like 44 magnums compared to the American eagle 165's... We chorno the AE 165's I got 1020fps out of a well worn 5" Para barrel

[Kwontanamo]

Thanks for the info Joe4d. I've thought about this topic often and i'm glad someone was able to verify this for us. I don't reload and i'm not sure when i'll ever start (truthfully speaking) but I've been lucky with finding websites here and there that sell 165gr 40S&W for cheap.

[LoganbillJ]

I prefer 165s over 180s but I like a snap rather than a push. I "feel" faster when shooting 165s and therefore I am. As Benny said above I like things happening faster

[snertley]

I used to shoot WWB a lot. When ever I chrono'd it only had a 2 FPS variance. Almost scary how consitant it was. They where 165s.

[cf2126]

I guess its a personal prefferance but everyone i shoot with 40cal shoots 180gr and ive done testing with lighter gr bullets and its just easier to make power factor with the 180 and i use IMR 7625 and only takes 5.0 grains to do it. But thats just my 2 cents worth

[cnote]

I remember talking to bob vogal and remember him saying he prefers .40 200 grain

To each their own

[UFO]

I did some testing on Friday with a 200grn Bayou Bullet and with 4.2 grns of SR7625 made 168pf. They shot very soft, and were very accurate. The stock 17# recoil spring caused me some issues, but I have ordered a lighter spring which should fix the problem. At the same time, I tested some factory ammo I had. Remington 180grn came in at 175pf, and Winchester 165grn came in at 168pf. The Winchester was by far the snappier of the 2, even though the Remington made a higher power factor.

[kneelingatlas]

I think anything at same power factor will have similar recoil. People describe the feel differently but I'm not sure there is much if a difference. At least not enough to see it consistently on the clock.

But that's just my science thinkig. I haven't shot all these different combinations so who knows.

The PF formula is not very scientific, I think 'feel' correlates more with kinetic energy and slide velocity. I've shoot the same platform (CZ/Tanfoglio) in many calibers (9, 40, and 45) at the same PF and I can tell you the caliber makes a BIG difference because the lighter bullets going faster have much more kinetic energy.

For example, three loads at 165 PF:

9mm 115gr @ 1435fps - 526 ft lbs of energy

.40 180gr @ 917fps - 336 ft lbs of energy

.45 225gr @ 734fps - 269 ft lbs of energy

[cf2126]

I think anything at same power factor will have similar recoil. People describe the feel differently but I'm not sure there is much if a difference. At least not enough to see it consistently on the clock.

But that's just my science thinkig. I haven't shot all these different combinations so who knows.

The PF formula is not very scientific, I think 'feel' correlates more with kinetic energy and slide velocity. I've shoot the same platform (CZ/Tanfoglio) in many calibers (9, 40, and 45) at the same PF and I can tell you the caliber makes a BIG difference because the lighter bullets going faster have much more kinetic energy.

For example, three loads at 165 PF:

9mm 115gr @ 1435fps - 526 ft lbs of energy

.40 180gr @ 917fps - 336 ft lbs of energy

.45 225gr @ 734fps - 269 ft lbs of energy

When that buzzer goes off most anyone will never know the difference what grain bullet they r shooting

[kneelingatlas]

Perhaps, but I don't geek out over reloading because its going to make me win