Conqueror Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Hi all, I'm building a 6" STI limited-style 1911. I dropped off the complete box of parts with the local gunsmith nearly 4 months ago. Since then I've spoken with him on the phone once, about 2 weeks after that date. He is reputable, but he's not Yost-Bonitz or anything, and the most frustrating thing is that I've left him 3-4 phone messages since then asking for an update and gotten nothing back. He told me he generally does projects in about 2 months when I last saw him. I've been completely civil in my messages and never given him anything to be angry about. I leave messages at roughly 1 month intervals saying "Hey, still haven't heard from you, would like an update on my pistol's status." The barrel I gave him was an Ebay purchase which had been "home gunsmithed" and may or may not be usable - he won't even get back to me as to whether I need to provide a new barrel! If it's not usable, then what the heck has he been doing for the last 4 months? Am I being unreasonable? Even if he just leaves me a message that says "Hey, I'm about 50% done, I'll call you when it's finished" that would be better than what I have now. Has anyone else waited this long for a local smith to simply assemble a complete set of parts into a gun and do a trigger job? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TreblePlink Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 I think that any good pistolsmith should consider his current workload, then give you a realistic estimate on completion time. He should then live up to that estimate, and if there are any delays or issues, keep the customer informed. When the project gets delayed more than say 20% longer than the estimate, it should become the priority work in his shop. He told the customer that he would do it that way by that time. A man's word should be his bond. Sometimes the customer will be told a quick turnaround will be done just to get the job committed, even when the smith knows it will be much longer - I think this is very unethical. People understand that these projects can take time, can get delayed by unexpected problems getting parts, etc. But there just seems to be too much misleading in the business. Too large a percentage of smiths seem to have a reputation for taking much longer than promised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 4mos or more may be totally reasonable to do a complete gun, but not calling back of giving you an update is not reasonable. Look at it this way, I have a Bedell Open gun thanks to one of the folks here. It's an awesome gun and Dan is now becoming one of the better known smiths making pistols for USPSA shooters. I left him a message in the late afternoon once and he called me back the next morning before 10AM...if he can do that, the local guy can to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Yes, the lack of communication is disturbing, but my open gun took approx. 9 months from a local smith (for a ground up build). Good things come to those who wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 (edited) PS if this guy is truly local to you (within an hours drive) and a nice guy all around ....... you may want to be careful not to 'burn any bridges' needlessly. A local gunsmith is a priceless thing. Edited October 31, 2007 by CHRIS KEEN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 like the others..the communication could be better.. not sure how popular he may be..but time on the phone is time away from the bench.. I have seen complete builds turn around in a week..and I have seen complete builds take 12 months.. good luck to you..hope the gun turns out the way you want it too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carloz Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 I have waited almost 2 years for a manufacture to do some upgrades to one of my guns. I have a other gun that's been out for 8 months. So 4 months is not bad, but not getting back to you that's just poor customer service!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinney Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Sounds like a "visit" is order to check on things, get an update in person. I agree four months is reasonable, but total lack of communication is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Rare to find a smith that has good business skills, too - almost every one (IME, even folks who are highly praised on this forum) will offer some bogus, highly optimistic timeframe. They all have their reasons (ranging from being aloof, to "crap happens", to effectively not caring what you think or what kind of customer experience you have). So, if you find one who can give you a real timeframe, and stick to it - or will give you a real answer when you call on the date they said it'd be ready, and why they're running late, and such - keep 'em. They're rare in this business. I've found a precious few, personally... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckbradley Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Thanks Dave. I believe Dan & I fall way ahead of your minimum requirements to be rare. We are occasionally late but I bet its only 1/10 times. We will always explain, even if its because its hunting season for Dan. Somebody needs to ask him about the 10 point buck that got away. Makes for some good ribbing. I can tell you that 6" 40 slides from STI are taking a while to get. Last ones took 8 weeks. I have 3 batches on order and the first was due 10/11 and the second 10/24. My handler is checking on them. Hope to hear good news tomorrow. The 6" craze has put STI behind on 6" slides. If you already had the slide then I dont have an answer, sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 You do realize that every time you call your 'smith, that your work ticket goes to the bottom of the pile? The only real answer is to wait quietly, then when you're SURE you've waited too long, pick up your parts and go somewhere else and get on the bottom of their list and plan to wait too long again. Brazos is booked out 18 mos on custom work last time I checked. Most other good gunsmiths are at least 4 to 6 mos, with 6 mos to a year being the normal wait. If you need your heater *now*, you need to buy a used one to tide you over until the new is complete. FWIW... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rgkeller Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 People put up with nonsense from gunsmiths that they would never tolerate from anyone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dansy Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Been waiting 11 months for my lastest Open.....probably will get it next month....but one thing for sure is once I get it I know it will run 105% from the get go.....at least the last one(his brother) did! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberkid Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 Maybe I see it differently than some, but I wouldnt be cutting much slack right now. He said 2 months, it is now 4, and he is dodging phone calls. I agree that some people wait much longer than 4 months, but they are also given a longer estimate at the beginning. Answer these... 1. Did he really say 2 months? or did he say "aww golly, it'd prolly be bout 2 months or so long as I git done painting the fence and cutting hay". 2. Is he really dodging calls? Or do you keep calling at wierd times, leaving non descript messages without your name or phone number. If it was a fairly solid time estimate and you have left more than 3 messages with your full name and phone number, I'd grab an empty box and head over to his house prepared to find out. If he just had an honest delay you can grant forgiveness at your behest, but you wont know if he is boning you until you see it yourself. I could care less about keeping a good local smith if the only thing he has yet to prove is that he is dishonest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinney Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 You do realize that every time you call your 'smith, that your work ticket goes to the bottom of the pile? The only real answer is to wait quietly, then when you're SURE you've waited too long, pick up your parts and go somewhere else and get on the bottom of their list and plan to wait too long again.Brazos is booked out 18 mos on custom work last time I checked. Most other good gunsmiths are at least 4 to 6 mos, with 6 mos to a year being the normal wait. If you need your heater *now*, you need to buy a used one to tide you over until the new is complete. FWIW... Those smiths you mentioned will also unapologetically tell you just how long the wait is going to be, up front..... and will still answer your questions if you call, email or stop by. While it is common for custom guns to go past promised delivery dates, if the smith in question above said 2 to 4 months, and the time has passed, the customer deserves at least an update. I still stand by total lack of communication is unforgivable. I don't care who you are. The smith is performing a service, like any other business; they aren't all powerful mythical beings we have to bow to (well, at least most aren't ) . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conqueror Posted October 31, 2007 Author Share Posted October 31, 2007 PS if this guy is truly local to you (within an hours drive) and a nice guy all around ....... you may want to be careful not to 'burn any bridges' needlessly. A local gunsmith is a priceless thing. I know, that's why I've been so careful not to call too often or be rude. He's very friendly in person, when I dropped off the parts he took an hour to show me examples of his work, etc. He is a good gunsmith, but it's becoming quite frustrating to get no communication. Sounds like a "visit" is order to check on things, get an update in person. I agree four months is reasonable, but total lack of communication is not. I've thought about that, but his office is in a separate location from his workshop. The office is about 1.5hrs round-trip, I'd hate to drive all the way there and find he's not there. And since he doesn't return my calls, it's not even possible to determine when he WILL be in the office. I can tell you that 6" 40 slides from STI are taking a while to get. Last ones took 8 weeks. I have 3 batches on order and the first was due 10/11 and the second 10/24. My handler is checking on them. Hope to hear good news tomorrow. The 6" craze has put STI behind on 6" slides. If you already had the slide then I dont have an answer, sorry. That's the thing, I already had the slide and frame (actually I bought them from you, earlier this year). It was a custom order too (tri-top, unique, no logo, etc.). I literally gave him a box with every part of a 1911 in it. Most of the parts were drop-in, all he really had to do is fit the slide to the frame, fit the barrel, do a trigger job, attach the sights, and make sure it all fires bullets. You do realize that every time you call your 'smith, that your work ticket goes to the bottom of the pile? The only real answer is to wait quietly, then when you're SURE you've waited too long, pick up your parts and go somewhere else and get on the bottom of their list and plan to wait too long again. I hear this in every service industry, and I think it's bogus. I refuse to believe that every gunsmith out there maliciously delays your work every time you ask him how it's going. Maybe a couple have done that, but I think generally your wait will be X amount of time regardless of whether you call or not (as long as you don't call annoyingly often, which I don't). Maybe I see it differently than some, but I wouldnt be cutting much slack right now. He said 2 months, it is now 4, and he is dodging phone calls. I agree that some people wait much longer than 4 months, but they are also given a longer estimate at the beginning. Answer these... 1. Did he really say 2 months? or did he say "aww golly, it'd prolly be bout 2 months or so long as I git done painting the fence and cutting hay". 2. Is he really dodging calls? Or do you keep calling at wierd times, leaving non descript messages without your name or phone number. If it was a fairly solid time estimate and you have left more than 3 messages with your full name and phone number, I'd grab an empty box and head over to his house prepared to find out. If he just had an honest delay you can grant forgiveness at your behest, but you wont know if he is boning you until you see it yourself. I could care less about keeping a good local smith if the only thing he has yet to prove is that he is dishonest. 1) I forgot to ask him an ETA when I first dropped off the parts, but when I talked to him on the phone 2 weeks later I asked him an ETA, and he said something like "generally my work runs about 2 months out." It sounded fairly firm to me, not an amorphous "sometime in the future". 2) I call during business hours, I leave my full name and two phone numbers, I remind him which project is mine and how long it's been since I dropped it off, and I ask for an update. That's about as proper a message as you can leave, I think. I don't know where his house is, his business office is inside a local, well-known gun store, and his workshop is in a location unknown to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddy_fuentes Posted October 31, 2007 Share Posted October 31, 2007 I would show up at his shop and see for myself what is going on. If he had not started or doesn't have a good start on your gun...take it with you. It's not going to get any better. Sometimes sickness or family problems may cause delays, but he owes you an explanation. If this is the reason, I would let him know that I understand his problems, but expect up-dates at reasonable intervals. You are the customer...don't let him run over you. You can find another gunsmith that would be happy to help you. Good Luck, Buddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conqueror Posted November 1, 2007 Author Share Posted November 1, 2007 I left him another phone message this morning after looking at the receipt and realizing that it's actually been over 5 months. I dropped it off on May 25. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjbine Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 I would show up at his shop and see for myself what is going on. If he had not started or doesn't have a good start on your gun...take it with you. It's not going to get any better. Sometimes sickness or family problems may cause delays, but he owes you an explanation. If this is the reason, I would let him know that I understand his problems, but expect up-dates at reasonable intervals. You are the customer...don't let him run over you. You can find another gunsmith that would be happy to help you. Good Luck, Buddy I agree with Buddy on this. Go visit the guy and find out what is going on and good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt P. Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 I don't have a problem when a smith runs over their "estimated" time. There are some things out of their control and this is a niche market. My problem is that they should at minimum contact you to inform you to the deal. It is not just a good business practice, it is the polite and respectful thing to do. If it were me, I would show up in person and if the gun hasn't been started, then I would take all my parts and go somewhere else and not support that type of business practice. With UPS today, good gunsmiths are only a day away. just my $.02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 I've learned that Gunsmith's can estimate time about as well as computer programmers-- take the estimate, double it, and move to the next higher unit of time. Two weeks becomes 4 months in no time The problem usually isn't that they're working on it and it's going slow or whatever-- most full-time smiths can build a gun ground up in a week (unless they send something out), but it's that they haven't got to it, and don't know when they will and thus have nothing to say but "it's still in line, I'll get to it when I get everything else in front of it done'. The really organized smiths keep track of estimates and the backlog in line, but most don't have time for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 (edited) I've been completely civil in my messages and never given him anything to be angry about. what the heck has he been doing for the last 4 months? Doing work for other people who leave angry messages because they are not as nice as you. Edited November 1, 2007 by bountyhunter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted November 1, 2007 Share Posted November 1, 2007 You do realize that every time you call your 'smith, that your work ticket goes to the bottom of the pile? The only real answer is to wait quietly, then when you're SURE you've waited too long, pick up your parts and go somewhere else and get on the bottom of their list and plan to wait too long again. Or, send a gun to cylinder and slide first so that all other gunsmiths you do business with will seem speedy by comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conqueror Posted November 3, 2007 Author Share Posted November 3, 2007 He finally returned my call! My gun should supposedly be finished next week. We'll see if he follows through on that assertion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dansy Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 Personaly I wouldn't rush any gunsmith done that once and end up with a gun that wasn't perfect.....the smith just told me it should settle and I knew you were in a rush....did I like that answer no not really after all I had been waiting a number of months so what is another month or two?? much better then changing thing's on my new big$ gun....of course that was done with the smith on the phone....I'm now in the 12 month's for latest one...was suppose do be done in June.... Also I wish there was a Gunsmith were I live..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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