.355 Super* = 9mm Major

[ipscbob]

Their major PF 38supercomp load with 125 gr JHPs is $275 + shipping for a case of 1000. Very reasonable actually since it is new brass. If anyone is interested they are loading to 1.235" OAL and PF should be around 173-175.

What is it that makes the 38 Super well understood. As long as sound load development and reloading practices are used there is no difference between developing a load in 38 Super or 9mm that makes Major. Remember even the 38 Super loaded to Major is above SAAMI specs.

Isn't the case volume of the 9mm smaller? Has anyone looked at internal volume differences using typical bullets and OALs? Changes here will effect chamber pressure for a given PF and bullet. Do any of the powder or bullet manufacturers have load data published for 9mm major PF loads? food for thought.........

Edited September 20, 2007 by ipscbob

[G-ManBart]

Their major PF 38supercomp load with 125 gr JHPs is $275 + shipping for a case of 1000. Very reasonable actually since it is new brass. If anyone is interested they are loading to 1.235" OAL and PF should be around 173-175.

What is it that makes the 38 Super well understood. As long as sound load development and reloading practices are used there is no difference between developing a load in 38 Super or 9mm that makes Major. Remember even the 38 Super loaded to Major is above SAAMI specs.

Isn't the case volume of the 9mm smaller? Has anyone looked at internal volume differences using typical bullets and OALs? Changes here will effect chamber pressure for a given PF and bullet. Do any of the powder or bullet manufacturers have load data published for 9mm major PF loads? food for thought.........

Yep, the 38SC stuff I chrono'd worked out to a PF of 174 out of my shorty (no popple holes).

I have never seen 9mm major loads listed by any manufacturer. Even the hot factory loaded stuff (+P and +P+) tends to top out around 155 PF and that's where most reloading guides top out as well. There just isn't enough case volume when loaded to standard OAL to make it possible.

[Alan Meek]

Their major PF 38supercomp load with 125 gr JHPs is $275 + shipping for a case of 1000. Very reasonable actually since it is new brass. If anyone is interested they are loading to 1.235" OAL and PF should be around 173-175.

What is it that makes the 38 Super well understood. As long as sound load development and reloading practices are used there is no difference between developing a load in 38 Super or 9mm that makes Major. Remember even the 38 Super loaded to Major is above SAAMI specs.

Isn't the case volume of the 9mm smaller? Has anyone looked at internal volume differences using typical bullets and OALs? Changes here will effect chamber pressure for a given PF and bullet. Do any of the powder or bullet manufacturers have load data published for 9mm major PF loads? food for thought.........

Yep, the 38SC stuff I chrono'd worked out to a PF of 174 out of my shorty (no popple holes).

I have never seen 9mm major loads listed by any manufacturer. Even the hot factory loaded stuff (+P and +P+) tends to top out around 155 PF and that's where most reloading guides top out as well. There just isn't enough case volume when loaded to standard OAL to make it possible.

Winchester Ranger 127 gr SXT will make major in some guns 5" or longer. Also Hirtenberger has a load they sell as a machine gun load that made a 166pf out of my 4.5 9mm.

In a nutshell we are retracing steps from 20+ years ago, there were no manuacturers making major loads in Super and you were hard pressed to find a load in a loading manual anywhere close to major.

As far as the data in a reloading manual unless you are using the exact same components you have no way of knowing if you are at the same pressure as the loading manual. But that is true for any load data.

I can only think of two ammo manufacturers that have a 38 Super major PF load, Armscor and I think theirs is more tailored for IPSC with a pf of 160 and Atlanta Arms. Corbon while they have a load to make major it is trageted as a self defense round and is almost cost prohibitive from a USPSA perspective. Other than those, which are cottage industry there are no mainstream ammo manufacturers laoding 38 Super to major PF and I do not forsee them ever doing that in the future.

Alan

[jwat]

To my understanding, is that John Nagel (SJC) and Danny have been working on this for some time. The reason being that someone used to shooting Limited or Production and buying AAA ammo already can make the jump to Open and still have ammo available without reloading. The OAL is a little shorter than what I use for my 9-major platform but that insures that they will work most mags, esp. Glock/SJC setups also.

Jim

[Alan Meek]

To my understanding, is that John Nagel (SJC) and Danny have been working on this for some time. The reason being that someone used to shooting Limited or Production and buying AAA ammo already can make the jump to Open and still have ammo available without reloading. The OAL is a little shorter than what I use for my 9-major platform but that insures that they will work most mags, esp. Glock/SJC setups also.

Jim

My understanding too

[chuckbradley]

In my opinion the only advantage to going 9 major is the cost of brass. Without the cheap brass there is no advantage. Not that in some platforms the 9mm may be a necessary choice there just isnt any advantage for 9mm in the platform most open shooters use. And when you consider the issues with using cheap brass, which may mean using new brass is necessary , that advantage is gone also.

Personally I am considering changing all our guns to Super Comp. We have been shooting 9mm with once fired brass. First we had problems with military crimped brass so I looked for reamed brass. The reamed brass has looser primer pocket that has been letting gas around the primer and causing erosion on the breach face on all 3 guns. There are just so many issues that we have to deal with that werent present with supercomp or super. Any money saved on brass we lost, and more so, by having to have 3 new slides fit.

My post may not be fitting for this thread. Mods feel free to break it off and start a new thread

Edited September 21, 2007 by chuckbradley

[Flexmoney]

Isn't the case volume of the 9mm smaller? Has anyone looked at internal volume differences using typical bullets and OALs? Changes here will effect chamber pressure for a given PF and bullet. Do any of the powder or bullet manufacturers have load data published for 9mm major PF loads? food for thought.........

Yes...sorta.

I have a Sierra manual that lists 3 loads for 9x21 that make Major. For the purposes of this discussion, 9x21 is identical to 9x19 (same OAL, same brass dimensions, etc.).

[ipscbob]

Well, I just put an order in for some of the 38supercomp. As soon as I get a chance to put some over the chrono, Ill post the numbers for those interested. At this price, loaded in new supercomp brass, it is a great deal.

[Alan Meek]

OK,

Thread back on topic.

I chronoed the .355 Super ammo I received from Atlanta Arms.

As a refresher, my gun is a Caspian Hi-Cap 9mm. 4.5" Bar-Sto barrel and no blow holes.

Chrono results

Bullet Weight Average Avg PF Hi Low AvDv StDev Extreme Spread

Zero 125gJHP 1326.8 165.8 1350 1308 8.28 10.85 42

Also chronoed thourgh Basmans 9mm

Chrono Results

Average Avg PF Hi Low AvDv StDev Extreme Spread

1336. 167.1 1357 1318 10.49 13.06 39

Right now I could use the ammo for a local match and/or practice but it is to close to the lower pf to risk at a major match.

Also I have pulled a bullet and the powder charge is ~6.6 grains. The powder charge still leaves ~.25 of an inch to the top of the case.

I did a visual comparison to power pistol and the powder that Atlanta Arms is using is silvery while the power pistol is greyish

Alan

[Kingman]

Wow Alan that is close, real close. With Blow holes that probably won't get there.

How does it feel?

[Alan Meek]

True about the blow holes.

It felt about the same as my HS-6 load

I will be giving feedback to Danny on Monday

[Radical Precision Designs]

True about the blow holes.

It felt about the same as my HS-6 load

I will be giving feedback to Danny on Monday

+1

[Kingman]

gotya, the second chrono data set what bbl length was on that one?

I am interested in seeing this idea stem to fruitition. I think next year I may buy ammo for some of the bigger matches. But that gap is a bit scary.

[Alan Meek]

I think Basman' 9mm barrel length is about the same as mine. I will confirm as soon as he gets back from Thurmont

[Mad Scientist]

the new 355 supper has been on the drawing board for some time. the Idea was to give people an oportunity to shoot major loads out of open guns that generaly would not be able to. be it they made a choice not to reload or dont have the skill or time to work up a a major load. this load was developed to make major out of as many guns as posible . 5 " 1911 's with out holes do fine 17 length glocks that are properly set up do fine.

in this business it is very hard to make one load do every thing and this is a good case in point.I hope it works out of every ones gun that tries it but a little testing before hand can save a lot of hart break latter.

in testing at AAA I personaly shot several of my guns over the sticks 169 pf ( with 2 holes) and 170 pf with plain barrels. this load is very consistent and is the same load I have been shooting for 3 years.I have 50,000 + rounds thru one of my guns and am very pleased with the performance . are there better loads for your gun ?? probably but for those that shoot a 9mm and dont reload this is a good route to go.

looking at the facts if you decide to go this route it is a wise thing to have your gun built Around the ammo. keeping your length as long as posible and being conservative with porting. its easier to add holes later if you decide to reload.

this load may not be for every one but the hope is to help out those that chose this path.

John Nagel

[Radical Precision Designs]

the new 355 supper has been on the drawing board for some time. the Idea was to give people an oportunity to shoot major loads out of open guns that generaly would not be able to. be it they made a choice not to reload or dont have the skill or time to work up a a major load. this load was developed to make major out of as many guns as posible . 5 " 1911 's with out holes do fine 17 length glocks that are properly set up do fine.

in this business it is very hard to make one load do every thing and this is a good case in point.I hope it works out of every ones gun that tries it but a little testing before hand can save a lot of hart break latter.

in testing at AAA I personaly shot several of my guns over the sticks 169 pf ( with 2 holes) and 170 pf with plain barrels. this load is very consistent and is the same load I have been shooting for 3 years.I have 50,000 + rounds thru one of my guns and am very pleased with the performance . are there better loads for your gun ?? probably but for those that shoot a 9mm and dont reload this is a good route to go.

looking at the facts if you decide to go this route it is a wise thing to have your gun built Around the ammo. keeping your length as long as posible and being conservative with porting. its easier to add holes later if you decide to reload.

this load may not be for every one but the hope is to help out those that chose this path.

John Nagel

To this I say AMEN !!!!!!!

Just keep your orders going to Danny, and all the feed-back you can. While John and Danny designed this load with the pertinents of Glock usage, it does very well in non-Glock pistols. Especially as an over the counter available item. One single load can not be expected to match or outdo every other load possible, but in a pinch or by choice it will fit the need.

[Alan Meek]

I appreciate John and Danny taking this project on.

Alan

[swattdoc]

Shot the 355 super through my Glock from SJC.

5 shots avg 1405. pf - 175.

temp 65 degrees.

Plan on another chrono test in a couple weeks. finely manufactured Ammo. Great for those of us who are unwilling or don't have the time to reload.

Tom

[coltgov]

Also I have pulled a bullet and the powder charge is ~6.6 grains. The powder charge still leaves ~.25 of an inch to the top of the case.

I did a visual comparison to power pistol and the powder that Atlanta Arms is using is silvery while the power pistol is greyish

Alan

It takes exactly 6.6 of WSF to make major in a open Glock

without barrel ports. You think the powder is WSF. My gut instincts say definely yes!

[Alan Meek]

Also I have pulled a bullet and the powder charge is ~6.6 grains. The powder charge still leaves ~.25 of an inch to the top of the case.

I did a visual comparison to power pistol and the powder that Atlanta Arms is using is silvery while the power pistol is greyish

Alan

It takes exactly 6.6 of WSF to make major in a open Glock

without barrel ports. You think the powder is WSF. My gut instincts say definely yes!

Thanks Coltgov

I was thinking along those lines that was the powder being used, but I do not have any handy to compare at the moment

Alan

[TruStreet]

Also I have pulled a bullet and the powder charge is ~6.6 grains. The powder charge still leaves ~.25 of an inch to the top of the case.

I did a visual comparison to power pistol and the powder that Atlanta Arms is using is silvery while the power pistol is greyish

Alan

It takes exactly 6.6 of WSF to make major in a open Glock

without barrel ports. You think the powder is WSF. My gut instincts say definely yes!

Thanks Coltgov

I was thinking along those lines that was the powder being used, but I do not have any handy to compare at the moment

Alan

I know for a fact its not WSF

Manny

Edited October 23, 2007 by TruStreet

[Radical Precision Designs]

Also I have pulled a bullet and the powder charge is ~6.6 grains. The powder charge still leaves ~.25 of an inch to the top of the case.

I did a visual comparison to power pistol and the powder that Atlanta Arms is using is silvery while the power pistol is greyish

Alan

It takes exactly 6.6 of WSF to make major in a open Glock

without barrel ports. You think the powder is WSF. My gut instincts say definely yes!

Thanks Coltgov

I was thinking along those lines that was the powder being used, but I do not have any handy to compare at the moment

Alan

I know for a fact its not WSF

Manny

The best Danny at Atlanta Arms would tell me is that it was not a regular "off the counter" powder. That it was a commercial "bulk" powder.

Maybe someone can get "Mad Scientist" to spill the beans and tell us ... (... not holding my breath )

[Jager1147]

if the .355 major uses a Zero 125 JHP, isn't that a .356 bullet?

[Turtle]

I couldn't locate the advertised diameter and it wasn't written on the box. The exact measurement of the Zero 125jhp is .355" though, as I just checked it.

I also had an opportunity to test the AA .355 super ammo last weekend and I was surprised to find the it made major in my pistol which has a 4.5" barrel with 4 blow holes plus comp. I don't have the data "handy" (Bob would get the pun there) but I recall it being about 167.2pf or so (my HS-6 load makes a 171pf). I don't have any accuracy results to share and cannot comment on perceptive recoil feel as I had to shoot weak hand only.

[Alan Meek]

I couldn't locate the advertised diameter and it wasn't written on the box. The exact measurement of the Zero 125jhp is .355" though, as I just checked it.

I also had an opportunity to test the AA .355 super ammo last weekend and I was surprised to find the it made major in my pistol which has a 4.5" barrel with 4 blow holes plus comp. I don't have the data "handy" (Bob would get the pun there) but I recall it being about 167.2pf or so (my HS-6 load makes a 171pf). I don't have any accuracy results to share and cannot comment on perceptive recoil feel as I had to shoot weak hand only.

Todd,

How is that finger doing?

Was hoping to catch up with you soon.

I am out of town this weekend.

Alan