.355 Super* = 9mm Major

[Radical Precision Designs]

Last week I was having a conversation with Danny Weissner of Atlanta Arms & Ammo about a few things. We talked about his loads for the .38 SuperComp as presently used by Army Marksmanship Unit Team, the powders and bullets used, etc.

He said he had a new load for 9 mm Major that he would like me to give the once over and see how it worked in my guns. Now, bear in mind that this load is specifically made for OPEN GUNS, which can handle the pressures and idiosyncracies of such use.

Today I received some of this ammo, as promised. My first reaction was one of bewilderment. The headstamp read: .355 Super ** instead of 9 mm Luger +p. Of course I had to call Danny about it. Boy, did he ever set me up!!! The brass is made by Starline and the bullets are 125 Grs. Zero loaded with a propietary powder with a moderate slow/fast burn rate. ( I haven't pulled one apart yet to dissect it, but I will soon enough!!)

When asked about why the different headstamp while outer dimensions matched those of the 9 mm Luger, I was told it was to remind you that these were "Major" loads not intended for unsuitable guns such as "_______". ( I wonder if they would be good for defense loads in suitable guns too ??)

In any case, I haven't had the time to test them yet. I will report back as soon as I do.

Has anyone tried them yet ??? If so, can you tell us about it ????

Edited September 17, 2007 by Radical Precision Designs

[GentlemanJim]

Do you have any idea of cost per thousand?

In a pinch it would be nice to buy major 9 ready to go!

Jim

[JThompson]

Hmmm. Not telling the powder eh? Okay, what OAL are they?

[Radical Precision Designs]

Do you have any idea of cost per thousand?

In a pinch it would be nice to buy major 9 ready to go!

Jim

Just gave Danny a quick call to check. He quoted presently a price of $300.00 per thousand. Now, this is all "new" brass. I am pretty sure that some changes can occur with the amounts ordered. My suggestion would be to call Danny at Atlanta Arms & Ammo and ask him. He can be reached at (770) 464-2203 Just tell him you read about it on the BEnos Forums.

[HoMiE]

I like the idea of the brass. Supposedly there is a little bit more rim like a super comp, but for 9x19. I asked if I could buy some brass and it was a no go. And the OAL has to be shorter than 1.169" since it will work in Glock magazines. SJC is using it to test fire their guns as well. But if you want the loaded ammo it is $275 per 1K + shipping($29 where I live).

Edited September 18, 2007 by HoMiE

[Alan Meek]

Just ordered 200 rds for testing I will update as soon as I test.

Alan

[G-ManBart]

Slightly off topic, but might be interesting for anyone considering Atlanta Arms products. I got a chance to do some chrono work with the Atlanta Arms 38 SuperComp ammo (125gr jhp) in my Bedell shorty this weekend and it was pretty impressive. It came in at 174pf with an extreme spread of around 13fps and a standard deviation right at 5....that's going to be tough to beat!

[BrianATL]

Supposedly the web of the case is thicker than standard 9x19 case.(not sure)

Edited September 17, 2007 by BrianATL

[XRe]

Is Danny selling the powder separately??? Certainly makes me wonder what he's loading up... and if it would have applications in Super, as well. Safely making major at short OAL in any gun (remember manufacturers of ammo have to do things a little differently....) in 9x19 is an interesting prospect...

Venry, you might pull a bullet and post a picture of the powder....

[Kingman]

ok, this interests me. The ease of buying loaded stuff on all new cases for matches. Especially big matches. sounds decent.

[uscbigdawg]

I trust AAA whole heartedly. Used their major 38 Super in a pinch and not only chrono'ed major, but as stated above was extremely consistent. Accurate as hell too.

I'm not a major 9 guy but this is definitely nice in a pinch.

Rich

[Radical Precision Designs]

Did some range time tonight with this new .355 Super loads from AAA.

Compared them to some other agreeable loads on hand. The .355 Super did very well, held its own.

My favorite Major 9 load for a while has been 9.3 grs. of VV 3n38 and 124 gr. bullets. It will continue to be my favorite.

Now, as for using the new .355 Super with the 125 gr. bullets as a ready-out-of-the-box replacement. Most definetely yes. Point of impact was the same. The dot jump was considerably higher than my 3n38 loads, but settled down well enough for a second or subsequent shots. They felt very close to a similar load using Hodgdon HS-6.

I have not done a chrono test yet, but will the next time I set it up. I think I'll get some more from Danny and try them at a regular match and see how they perform "under stress" ...

[Alan Meek]

I received my order today and will be chronoing them and testing them this weekend

Alan

[Flexmoney]

Anybody post an OAL yet ?

This sounds interesting.

[Alan Meek]

Anybody post an OAL yet ?

This sounds interesting.

I measured 1.152"

[JThompson]

Anybody post an OAL yet ?

This sounds interesting.

I measured 1.152"

Thanls Alan.

[Jeff686]

I thought the biggest selling point of 9major is the cheap brass. Buy once-fired, load, shoot, leave it on the ground.

What's the point of a special .355 super brass? If you're gonna spend extra money on brass, and pick it up when done, why not just get 38 super?

.355 super is approx $300 per 1000.

How much is thier 38 supercomp in major?

If you don't reload, you're probably not going to care about a few bucks per thousand. 38 super is well understood and still 'king' for open guns. There's no mystery or safety concerns.

So, really, my question is... if you don't care about the cost of brass/ammo, why shoot 9mm major?

[Fireant]

Jeff,

I think the main reason is for a back-up. I've broken my press loading match ammo the afternoon I leave for a major match with no spare parts before. You can have a case of this on the shelf for those times. Or when things just happen in life and you could not load before a major. Or some people like the idea of leaving their cheap practice brass and having new stuff for major matches.

[Jeff686]

Jeff,

I think the main reason is for a back-up. I've broken my press loading match ammo the afternoon I leave for a major match with no spare parts before. You can have a case of this on the shelf for those times. Or when things just happen in life and you could not load before a major. Or some people like the idea of leaving their cheap practice brass and having new stuff for major matches.

OK. I'll buy that. Might they sell their stuff at major matches? That would make even more sense, as a contingency plan for last minute ammo problems.

I don't travel to matches much, but I might drop $100 bucks to buy ammo onsite, instead of the shipping/airline hassle.

[BrianATL]

I thought the biggest selling point of 9major is the cheap brass. Buy once-fired, load, shoot, leave it on the ground.

What's the point of a special .355 super brass? If you're gonna spend extra money on brass, and pick it up when done, why not just get 38 super?

.355 super is approx $300 per 1000.

How much is thier 38 supercomp in major?

If you don't reload, you're probably not going to care about a few bucks per thousand. 38 super is well understood and still 'king' for open guns. There's no mystery or safety concerns.

So, really, my question is... if you don't care about the cost of brass/ammo, why shoot 9mm major?

Maybe the glock platform?

[Fireant]

Jeff,

It depends on the match and if they are delivering ammo to some of their shooters or not. I know I've picked some up from them at the GA state match before.

[Alan Meek]

I thought the biggest selling point of 9major is the cheap brass. Buy once-fired, load, shoot, leave it on the ground.

What's the point of a special .355 super brass? If you're gonna spend extra money on brass, and pick it up when done, why not just get 38 super?

.355 super is approx $300 per 1000.

How much is thier 38 supercomp in major?

If you don't reload, you're probably not going to care about a few bucks per thousand. 38 super is well understood and still 'king' for open guns. There's no mystery or safety concerns.

So, really, my question is... if you don't care about the cost of brass/ammo, why shoot 9mm major?

While some say 9mm Major is about cheap once fired brass, 9mm Major is about pushing equipment to the edge. Open Division has allowed us to come up with some pretty ingenious devices and ammo development is one of those devices. Additioanlly, 9mm Major also allows other guns to compete in open. Those are the small frame autos that are designed around the 9mm. The Glock 17, CZ-75 pattern and probably a few others that fit the samller hands of some of our shooters better than a wide-body 1911 style.

What is it that makes the 38 Super well understood. As long as sound load development and reloading practices are used there is no difference between developing a load in 38 Super or 9mm that makes Major. Remember even the 38 Super loaded to Major is above SAAMI specs.

The only real difference is the setup of the gun itself in the 1911 patterns, a couple of must haves for me, XL Ejector and a Dawson Extractor. THe XL Ejector is required to clear the fired case a soon as possible, it is empty I have no more use for it in my gun. The Dawson Extractor, I have found was the tallest at the Extractor hook. I feel this is important as the engagement area of the hook on the 9mm brass is significanly less than cases that have a larger diameter case head.

If you look at it the extractor is pretty much on the centerline of the case when the slide is in battery, now during the ejection cycle the barrel tilts down and now the extractor is engaging the case above the centerline. So you have a limited engagement of the extractor on the case head. The Dawson Extractor has a few thousands more engagement on the case head than others I investigated.

Now this applies to all calibers. We will spend a few thousand dollars on getting a custom pistol to shoot our sport, and then we will spend another couple of hundered to a couple of thousand to attend a "Major" match and where do we look to save any money? In the ammo category, cheap bullets, cheap brass all to shoot a major match. The availability of factory produced ammo that meets our pf and performs at the level we need is only insurance and one less thing to worry about when we go to a major match.

Just some food for thought.

Alan

(edited to correct one freaking typo, arghhh)

Edited September 20, 2007 by Alan Meek

[G-ManBart]

I thought the biggest selling point of 9major is the cheap brass. Buy once-fired, load, shoot, leave it on the ground.

What's the point of a special .355 super brass? If you're gonna spend extra money on brass, and pick it up when done, why not just get 38 super?

.355 super is approx $300 per 1000.

How much is thier 38 supercomp in major?

If you don't reload, you're probably not going to care about a few bucks per thousand. 38 super is well understood and still 'king' for open guns. There's no mystery or safety concerns.

So, really, my question is... if you don't care about the cost of brass/ammo, why shoot 9mm major?

While some say 9mm Major is about cheap once fired brass, 9mm Major is about pushing equipment to the edge. Open Division has allowed us to come up with some pretty ingenious devices and ammo development is one of those devices. Additioanlly, 9mm Major also allows other guns to compete in open. Those are the small frame autos that are designed around the 9mm. The Glock 17, CZ-75 pattern and probably a few others that fit the samller hands of some of our shooters better than a wide-body 1911 style.

What is it that makes the 38 Super well understood. As long as sound load development and reloading practices are used there is no difference between developing a load in 38 Super or 9mm that makes Major. Remember even the 38 Super loaded to Major is above SAAMI specs.

The only real difference is the setup of the gun itself in the 1911 patterns, a couple of must haves for me, XL Ejector and a Dawson Extractor. THe XL Ejector is required to clear the fired case a soon as possible, it is empty I have no more use for it in my gun. The Dawson Extractor, I have found was the tallest at the Extractor hook. I feel this is important as the engagement area of the hook on the 9mm brass is significanly less than cases that have a larger diameter case head.

If you look at it the extractor is pretty much on the centerline of the case when the slide is in battery, now during the ejection cycle the barrel tilts down and now the extractor is engaging the case above the centerline. So you have a limited engagement of the extractor on the case head. The Dawson Extractor has a few thousands more engagement on the case head than others I investigated.

Now this applies to all calibers. We will spend a few thousand dollars on getting a custom pistol to shoot our sport, and then we will spend another couple of hundered to a couple of thousand to attend a "Major" match and where do we look to save any money? In the ammo category, cheap bullets, cheap brass all to shoot a major match. The availability of factory produced ammo that meets our pf and performs at the level we need is only insurance and one less thing to worry about when we go to a major match.

Just some food for thought.

Alan

(edited to correct one freaking typo, arghhh)

Alan,

Not an argument, but a comment. There are some .38 Super major loads that are withing SAAMI specs. Cor-bon lists two that are nominally major and one that's really close on paper, but might be in a particular gun. Also, I know that at least VV lists loads that easily make major with bullets as light as 115gr and even well beyond major with bullets in the 124gr range (even one at some crazy number like 194pf!). I'm not sure how many other companies are listing similar loads, but if they're possible with one brand they ought to be with the others as well. R,

[Alan Meek]

Alan,

Not an argument, but a comment. There are some .38 Super major loads that are withing SAAMI specs. Cor-bon lists two that are nominally major and one that's really close on paper, but might be in a particular gun. Also, I know that at least VV lists loads that easily make major with bullets as light as 115gr and even well beyond major with bullets in the 124gr range (even one at some crazy number like 194pf!). I'm not sure how many other companies are listing similar loads, but if they're possible with one brand they ought to be with the others as well. R,

Bart,

In looking at VV data real quick most of those loads that are making major are not with the powders most are using.

I also recognize that SAAMI specs are set on the low side for the lowest common denominator of firearms capable of those specs.

In a nut shell the industry would probably not be where they are with the load data for 38 Super if it was not for the trailblazers in USPSA/IPSC that pushed the envelope in the name of competition.

Edited September 20, 2007 by Alan Meek

[G-ManBart]

Alan,

Not an argument, but a comment. There are some .38 Super major loads that are withing SAAMI specs. Cor-bon lists two that are nominally major and one that's really close on paper, but might be in a particular gun. Also, I know that at least VV lists loads that easily make major with bullets as light as 115gr and even well beyond major with bullets in the 124gr range (even one at some crazy number like 194pf!). I'm not sure how many other companies are listing similar loads, but if they're possible with one brand they ought to be with the others as well. R,

Bart,

In looking at VV data real quick most of those loads that are making major are not with the powders most are using.

I also recognize that SAAMI specs are set on the low side for the lowest common denominator of firearms capable of those specs.

In a nut shell the industry would probably not be where they are with the load data for 38 Super if it was not for the trailblazers in USPSA/IPSC that pushed the envelope in the name of competition.

Alan,

I just looked at it again and the powders listed with major .38 super loads were N340, N350, 3N37 and N105. I've seen all of them mentioned here pretty frequently. Regardless, you're absolutely right that it wouldn't have happened without the influence of USPSA/IPSC shooters. R,