USPSA Limited...Glock VS STI/SVI?

[AustinMike]

IMHO, this is hogwash!!! It implies that practice for the sake of it can overcome "any" obstacles.

Practice indeed is essential and necessary to hone your skills and put you in the winning side. But QUALITY practice IS what will get you there.

Certainly, that's what I meant. I was not advocating throwing lead down range just for the sake hearing the gun go bang. Proper practice is key. I just don't believe it's necessary to spend thousands up front on equipment in order to hone skills that have more to do with the matter floating between your ears than anything. A pile of ammo, a good consistent practice schedule, and a decent gun that shoots well and functions reliably should take you as far as you want to go. Equipment is no substitute for quality practice. I don't know much, but I do know this from experience, having laid down the cash for a used open gun that without the time to properly train on it, didn't make much, if any, improvement in my game.

[Flexmoney]

- As Eric mentioned, a shooter needs to choose a gun that fits them. That applies to any gun. Of course you don't want the slide to bite you as it cycles. That is only an issue with a small percentage of our population. But, it is an important issue. Another important issue, and one I seldom hear mentioned, is the fit of the grip...which should allow the shooter to press the trigger straight back. If the grip isn't right, then the shooter will push or pull on the sides of the trigger, instead of allowing it to come straight back. Basic, but often overlooked.

- A Glock is amazingly accurate. Especially so since the gun is made to run "loose". There is no shot in the USPSA game that I fear making with the Glock. None. (I routinely bet dinner and/or beers against high ranking Open gun shooters...based on the Alpha count we get in matches. I seldom buy.)

- Your not going to wear out a Glock.

- The Glock trigger in a Limited or Open gun can be great for the same money, or less, than a good trigger job on a 1911. For a lot less...they can be pretty good. Ultimately, you'd have to give the edge to the 1911, but we are talking the difference between an Indy car and a NASCAR. Just how good a driver are ya ?

- Glocks run, unless you mess with them too much.

- Glocks eat factory ammo...if that is a factor. (Though opinions vary, I don't like the idea of shooting lead in the Glock barrels. Their rifling is such that the barrel can lead up quickly if the load/components aren't just right.)

- Transitions beteween targets...people rave about having a light gun to transition faster. If you buy into that, then the glock has you covered. At 22-24 oz, the Glock is much lighter than an STI.

- Being a lighter gun, the glock is a bit of a handful at major power factor. For me, this is a plus as well as a minus. The Glock, at major, virtually requires that the shooter learn good techniques with regards to grip and stance. Shooters that aren't willing to put in that work...they are better off having a heavier gun take care of some of that for them.

- You can get into a Glock for cheap. Police turn in guns are plentiful. Mags are super cheap. Parts are everywhere. So are hoslters and mag holders.

- Glocks...if you don't blow a lot of extra money on them...then you can sell them rather readily. They are liquid.

Did I leave anything out?

[Flexmoney]

Oh yeah...STI had that contigency program. For certain major matches, if you use their gun, wear their shirt and win your class, they pay out. Sandbaggers rejoice. lol

[mjbine]

Oh yeah...STI had that contigency program. For certain major matches, if you use their gun, wear their shirt and win your class, they pay out. Sandbaggers rejoice. lol

[Flexmoney]

I should put a disclaimer out there. I truely meant that sandbagger comment as a joke. USPSA has thier divisions and thier classes. Shooters have the choice to shoot whatever division they want.

(if we drift too far and get off topic, I'll have to come back in here and remove that stuff.)

[mjbine]

I truly believe in order to make the correct decision you must shoot each gun and make your own conclusion. Everyone here has made valid points but you will not know which will fit you the best until you can do a side by side comparsion.

[Glk21C]

Nobody aorund here who shoots a glock have ponied up the bucks for any of the newer 2lb triggers though.

I ponied up the bucks when I bought my 20 that had already been completely tricked out with the Vanek trigger. 1.25 lbs. Two of my friends who shoot S_I (Brazos and Benny Hill Fat Free) were in disabelief on how it felt. They never thought a Glock trigger could feel so good.

To each his own I say.

[vrmn1]

I will admit a 19/2011 trigger is or can be SO MUCH BETTER than a Glock ever will be.

I always go back to this advice. Learn to play this game with a revolver and then a Glock trigger feels like you have died and gone to Heaven. Yes I spent a year playing this with a revovler, made B in 10 months. I have been shooting a Glock for about 6 months now.

I would love to have a STI but right now I can't justify it for me. I have my main limited gun a G24 and a back up or production G35 for less than $1000 but bought used. For the other $2000 I can have a bunch of ammo.

That said if you can't make a Glock work for you all the ammo in the world won't make it.

If you can afford an STI and want it go for it.

Either gun will give you a gun you can win any match in the world with if you can shoot it.

[atmar]

a mechanically superior tool

how so?

[Flexmoney]

Nobody aorund here who shoots a glock have ponied up the bucks for any of the newer 2lb triggers though.

I ponied up the bucks when I bought my 20 that had already been completely tricked out with the Vanek trigger. 1.25 lbs. Two of my friends who shoot S_I (Brazos and Benny Hill Fat Free) were in disabelief on how it felt. They never thought a Glock trigger could feel so good.

To each his own I say.

The G20 is a sleeper, for sure. It shoots as soft as a heavy STI. I had to put weight back on the trigger so that my girlfriend could shot her's.

[glock_556]

Nobody aorund here who shoots a glock have ponied up the bucks for any of the newer 2lb triggers though.

I ponied up the bucks when I bought my 20 that had already been completely tricked out with the Vanek trigger. 1.25 lbs. Two of my friends who shoot S_I (Brazos and Benny Hill Fat Free) were in disabelief on how it felt. They never thought a Glock trigger could feel so good.

To each his own I say.

The G20 is a sleeper, for sure. It shoots as soft as a heavy STI. I had to put weight back on the trigger so that my girlfriend could shot her's.

I'm assuming that you are referring to a G20 with a .40 conversion? I've been curious about that . . .

[XRe]

Is this thread rapidly becoming an all out stupid "Glock vs. 1911" religious war, or is it just me???

[Jman]

Well WWJD what say you? This stuff is pretty subjective huh? Like I noted in my first post one can pop a lot of brain cells

in the old "gun comparison" debate. Buy yourself a used Glock or S_I from a member here. Hard to beat the price and your

buying from fellow competitive shooters. What ever it takes to get you into and stay in the game.

Jim

[Flexmoney]

?

Seems good so far.

[XRe]

Seems good so far.

Must be me, then...

[boo radley]

I recently had an STI Ltd gun built (by Mike Caylor), after shooting some combination of G35/22/24 for two years....Like that line in _Dirty Harry_: "Ah GOTS to know!!" It's really nice, but it hasn't made a bit of difference in my shooting. In fact, I'm still shooting my Glocks more often, and a bit better, too ("better" being a *very* relative term).

The STI is a tad faster and flatter-shooting, but I keep driving it off the road. It's been extremely reliable. So far even MORE so than the Glocks, but that's a factor of messing with the Glock trigger, light strikes on primers, etc.

Get you one, if you want one. <shrug> They're expensive, but pretty much so is everything in this sport/recreation/hobby. Hey, get the STI *AND* spend the rest in ammo.

[Glockster35]

I believe the Glock platform is the way to go for the majority of new shooters. The cost of replacement parts, and ease of installation cannot be beat IMHO.

I have shot Glocks since they hit the US market in 1987 or so. I simply believe in them. I own a nice 1911 that I have been building on for many years also, and while I love to shoot my 1911, for competition purposes, I pick the Glock! For carry, I choose my 1911!

Advantages, well as a lot of other posters have said, Glocks simplicity, and low cost of parts. Other pistols, each have their own advantages. 1911's are probably the hardest for a new shooter to work on, because of the skill set and tools needed to do it right. Ask any gunsmith what weapon of choice they see on a regular basis boogered up, and I think 90% will say the 1911 platform! It's been around forever, and many think they can change it on their own!

[DaveM]

I recently had an STI Ltd gun built (by Mike Caylor), after shooting some combination of G35/22/24 for two years....Like that line in _Dirty Harry_: "Ah GOTS to know!!" It's really nice, but it hasn't made a bit of difference in my shooting. In fact, I'm still shooting my Glocks more often, and a bit better, too ("better" being a *very* relative term).

The STI is a tad faster and flatter-shooting, but I keep driving it off the road. It's been extremely reliable. So far even MORE so than the Glocks, but that's a factor of messing with the Glock trigger, light strikes on primers, etc.

Get you one, if you want one. <shrug> They're expensive, but pretty much so is everything in this sport/recreation/hobby. Hey, get the STI *AND* spend the rest in ammo.

Thats funny I keep driving my STI off the road too. They need to make one with a guidance system.

Seriously though I started shooting in 1988 with a stock 1911. Quite shooting in 1991. Started again a few years ago with a G-17 in Production, got a G-24 and started shooting limited, now I'm shooting a STI tru-sight or Bennie Hill 6" in limited. I can shoot a faster Bill drill with the S_I. I just can't get my finger working fast enough on the glock. I don't really think it's a recoil controll problem. I just can't work the trigger as fast. Some people can but not me. That said in a real match I shoot about the same with anything. I'm really thinking about going back to production next year just for a change. In fact I probably throw less mikes with the glock because I'm not tempted to try to shoot those .15 splits that are beyond my skill level at this point.

By the way I agree with Flex I don't think you'll find a glock that is not accurate enough for this game. I've had 4 (2 G17's, G24, G26) My current G17 is more accurate than either of my S_I guns and it is bone stock. And it is 100% reliable. The tru-sight has not been reliable. The Bennie gun is very old I'm at least the third owner and probably has a ton of rounds through it and it still works 100%, but you do have to keep it clean. The glock you just keep shooting and clean it only when you have nothing better to do

[coltgov]

- Being a lighter gun, the glock is a bit of a handful at major power factor. For me, this is a plus as well as a minus. The Glock, at major, virtually requires that the shooter learn good techniques with regards to grip and stance. Shooters that aren't willing to put in that work...they are better off having a heavier gun take care of some of that for them.

Did I leave anything out?

Yes you forgot to mention the G20.

Shoot a G20 in Limited with a S&W barrel. It's a much lighter gun than the 2011, but will absorb

more recoil. Actually feel like shooting minor witha major PF. There is no ruling against shooting Limited.

NROI ruled only against Production Division. I shot the G20 limited last year at a Area Match with no problems.

[ryucasta]

I would agree with the comments about the G20. I have found mine to be a much softer shooter than my S_I guns.

[dmedley]

I am a law enforcement officer and carry a glock daily so they fit me like a glove. Or should I say I have come to fit them. I tried to compete with a STI and ended up going back to a Glock. I think what I really like about a Glock is that there is nothing to think about other than sights and trigger. No external safeties, grip safeties etc. I do like the heavier weight of a STI frame, but ccf race frames may be an option for that on the Glock. They are both good platforms just depends on what you like better. In local matches I finished about the same whether shooting the Glock or the STI.

[Chris Keen]

I had the same learning curve when I switched from Glocks to STI, but it really is only temporary. I had the oppurtunity to handle one of the new CCF / Glock frames and they appear to be even heavier than my STI Edge. But if you are comfortable with Glocks this may be the ticket for you. Me, I adapted quite well to a STI. There is only 1 more thing to think about (thumb safety) while shooting, and that is only a momentary action while drawing on the first target.

[benny hill]

The sponsored glock shooters shoot glock's & the sponsored sti shooters shoot sti's & the sponsored para shooters shoot para's but look what the other top 20 shooters are competeing with & you will find most or all with s-i's.

[coltgov]

Wish someone will lend me a sti to see if I'm really faster with it than my G20. I will definitely have more malfuctions!

[Carlos]

- As Eric mentioned, a shooter needs to choose a gun that fits them. That applies to any gun. Of course you don't want the slide to bite you as it cycles. That is only an issue with a small percentage of our population. But, it is an important issue. Another important issue, and one I seldom hear mentioned, is the fit of the grip...which should allow the shooter to press the trigger straight back. If the grip isn't right, then the shooter will push or pull on the sides of the trigger, instead of allowing it to come straight back. Basic, but often overlooked.

- A Glock is amazingly accurate. Especially so since the gun is made to run "loose". There is no shot in the USPSA game that I fear making with the Glock. None. (I routinely bet dinner and/or beers against high ranking Open gun shooters...based on the Alpha count we get in matches. I seldom buy.)

- Your not going to wear out a Glock.

- The Glock trigger in a Limited or Open gun can be great for the same money, or less, than a good trigger job on a 1911. For a lot less...they can be pretty good. Ultimately, you'd have to give the edge to the 1911, but we are talking the difference between an Indy car and a NASCAR. Just how good a driver are ya ?

- Glocks run, unless you mess with them too much.

- Glocks eat factory ammo...if that is a factor. (Though opinions vary, I don't like the idea of shooting lead in the Glock barrels. Their rifling is such that the barrel can lead up quickly if the load/components aren't just right.)

- Transitions beteween targets...people rave about having a light gun to transition faster. If you buy into that, then the glock has you covered. At 22-24 oz, the Glock is much lighter than an STI.

- Being a lighter gun, the glock is a bit of a handful at major power factor. For me, this is a plus as well as a minus. The Glock, at major, virtually requires that the shooter learn good techniques with regards to grip and stance. Shooters that aren't willing to put in that work...they are better off having a heavier gun take care of some of that for them.

- You can get into a Glock for cheap. Police turn in guns are plentiful. Mags are super cheap. Parts are everywhere. So are hoslters and mag holders.

- Glocks...if you don't blow a lot of extra money on them...then you can sell them rather readily. They are liquid.

Did I leave anything out?

Yes, you left out the 140mm Glock magazine capacity advantage. So you see, its not really about the platform you choose at all. Rather, its really all about one or two extra rounds in the mag - thats what wins matches (joke).

My vote is for the Glock - it CAN take you all the way in this sport if you do your part. Besides, don't we have enough S_I shooters already? Where are all the Caspian/Para/Bul/Tanfoglio/CZ/Sig/H&K/Springfield Armory/Beretta/Taurus/S&WM&P owners & gunbuilders when it comes to limited division?