Carmoney Posted August 24, 2007 Share Posted August 24, 2007 I've been thinking about this for awhile.... I love shooting audible steel on the clock, but I don't like the fact that Steel Challenge is a completely predictable game of pure repetition. Let's face it, we reached a point a couple years ago where a guy who lives in a country where firearms are illegal grooved himself in with about 15 million reps with an air-soft gun and came over here and won the match. To make matters worse, they even have a practice range right there where you can give your muscle memory another 10,000-round work-out if you have the time and resources to show up a week early. Want to really find out who the best steel shooters are? Change the stages up every year, don't publish them ahead of time, and close down the damn practice range. Let the shooters see the stages for the first time at the actual match! Those dedicated shooters who put in lots of effort practicing will do the best, but that's because they know how to aim and hit something, and not because they've shot the same stages on their exact duplicate practice range back home, over and over and over and over....... The exact same thing could be said about Bianchi.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Keen Posted August 24, 2007 Share Posted August 24, 2007 I could see changing up the Steel Challenge .... maybe not so much for the Bianchi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buddy_fuentes Posted August 24, 2007 Share Posted August 24, 2007 You could practice with a Air Soft pistol and set up the course of fire in your back yard. You have the same information and more resources available than the competitor from gun-ban countries. Why not stop the "walk through" on a field course of fire? Make it a surprise for everyone. Wow, bet that wouldn't go over very well. There will always be those that are willing to sacrifice time, effort, and money to accomplish the things they cherish. I think they deserve anything they earn. I guess you can tell I am a Republican. Buddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted August 24, 2007 Share Posted August 24, 2007 I didn't know Steel Challenge was broken, But thanks Just when I was starting to feel like I had accomplished something. Now I find out it is just because I practiced That must be the only way some guy over 50 could end up in the top 10% And just to act like my self I can add I have never ben to Bianchi...so I would like to offer some changes to that too Are we having fun yet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pin Shooter Posted August 24, 2007 Share Posted August 24, 2007 Steel and Bianchi.......your can practise the piss out of the same boring stages, but it only gets borng once you can shoot the same times or scores on demand.....Who can say that they can do that? Not me........ Not Yet....................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pin Shooter Posted August 24, 2007 Share Posted August 24, 2007 I didn't know Steel Challenge was broken, But thanks Just when I was starting to feel like I had accomplished something. Now I find out it is just because I practiced That must be the only way some guy over 50 could end up in the top 10% And just to act like my self I can add I have never ben to Bianchi...so I would like to offer some changes to that too Are we having fun yet Well done Jamie..............you shot really well for a guy in a walking frame.............. Seriously though, I still think that we should have drug tested you. You shot a great match, and I was glad to see your scores drop......Congrats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted August 24, 2007 Share Posted August 24, 2007 the ..Walker was kind of a help ... It did slow me down shuffleing over on Outer Limits, But I can do that one blind folded now Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pin Shooter Posted August 24, 2007 Share Posted August 24, 2007 Is that so....perhaps next year I will keep you to that............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vrmn1 Posted August 24, 2007 Share Posted August 24, 2007 I love shooting audible steel on the clock, but I don't like the fact that Steel Challenge is a completely predictable game of pure repetition. This is the one and only reason I don't shoot steel challenge more. The monthly match here in Georgia is at my home club and 15 minutes from my house and I have not shot it in almost a year. Yes the speed is fun, it is great practice the instant audible ring on the steel is cool but it is boring to me after a few times. Maybe I suffer from a grand case of ADD. I am not taking anything away from the folks that shoot it and win but Maxand KC sat down at Fort Benning and shot it day in and day out for a long time getting ready for this year. Again don't take it that I am taking away from what they done far from it. They won because they logged the practice time to do it. My very good friend Jessie Abbott that won ladies limited and open and her husband have a range where they can set up the stages and shoot it day in and day out. And they did, thats why they shot so well. The 4 people I named off here like it and can shoot it whenever they want as much as they want. Thats why they do as well as they do. Once again not to take anything away from what they do. Jessie and Billy are 2 very good friends of mine I think the world of them. I have not had the pleasure of meeting Max or KC but I know they are great guys. It is a personal thing for me I find Steel Challenge boring. I don't think it would change the winners much or prove anything, the best shooters would still rise to the top and win. They win because they are the best. BUT it would bring others into the game that don't shoot it because it is aways the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ong45 Posted August 24, 2007 Share Posted August 24, 2007 I've been thinking about this for awhile.... Want to really find out who the best steel shooters are? Change the stages up every year, don't publish them ahead of time, and close down the damn practice range. Let the shooters see the stages for the first time at the actual match! Those dedicated shooters who put in lots of effort practicing will do the best, but that's because they know how to aim and hit something, and not because they've shot the same stages on their exact duplicate practice range back home, over and over and over and over....... Having a hard time figuring out which side of the fence you're sitting on It is a personal thing for me I find Steel Challenge boring. I don't think it would change the winners much or prove anything, the best shooters would still rise to the top and win. They win because they are the best. BUT it would bring others into the game that don't shoot it because it is aways the same. I agree that steel can seem boring , but there are different ways to look at this. I always enjoyed the fact that i knew what everyone could shoot on all the stages, gives you something concrete to strive for. Steel for me is a harsh game, ever run a field course and even if you didn't do every little thing perfectly you can come out of it feeling Ok about the stage? ( mikes are a different story of course) When i shoot an SC string, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind how i did, the difference between a good run and a so so run is only .25 or so. A disastrous run i don't even want to relive. Now imagine having to shoot 4 more times after a bad string? Not for the faint of heart. Bianchi must have the same kind of pressures.Neither game is better or worse , boring it might seem. Easy it is not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRNinTX Posted August 24, 2007 Share Posted August 24, 2007 Want to really find out who the best steel shooters are? Change the stages up every year, don't publish them ahead of time, and close down the damn practice range. Let the shooters see the stages for the first time at the actual match! Those dedicated shooters who put in lots of effort practicing will do the best, but that's because they know how to aim and hit something, and not because they've shot the same stages on their exact duplicate practice range back home, over and over and over and over....... Do you really think it will change the makeup of the top ten? The times might go up, but I bet the same guys will be fighting it out. When i shoot an SC string, there is absolutely no doubt in my mind how i did, the difference between a good run and a so so run is only .25 or so. Or one pickup shot can cost you something like $30,000! Steel Challenge is a mental game above all else, every shot is important and there is very little opportunity to make time up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted August 24, 2007 Share Posted August 24, 2007 We shoot different stages each month for our local Steel Challenge match. I don't think it makes a hill of beans worth of difference in who wins, but I sure would get bored shooting the same stages every month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mwx40x40 Posted August 24, 2007 Share Posted August 24, 2007 We shoot different stages each month for our local Steel Challenge match.I don't think it makes a hill of beans worth of difference in who wins, but I sure would get bored shooting the same stages every month. I agree that it would not effect who the winners of the match would be, but if you want variety shoot USPSA, IDPA, and ICORE. Leave the other sports alone for what they are. That's why we have different sports. My .02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted August 24, 2007 Author Share Posted August 24, 2007 (edited) I didn't know Steel Challenge was broken, But thanks Just when I was starting to feel like I had accomplished something. Now I find out it is just because I practiced That must be the only way some guy over 50 could end up in the top 10% And just to act like my self I can add I have never ben to Bianchi...so I would like to offer some changes to that too Are we having fun yet Lighten up, Francis. (I love that line from "Stripes"!) Nobody's taking anything away from your accomplishment. I've shot the Steel Challenge (on a squad with you and your wife, in fact!), so I know how hard it is to finish that high. I've also shot a ton of bowling pins over the years--the ultimate shooting repetition sport--so I know all about getting "grooved in"..... I just think changing up the stages would make it more fun, and yes, more challenging. Just my opinion. Edited August 24, 2007 by Carmoney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted August 24, 2007 Share Posted August 24, 2007 I kind of dig the repeatability of the SC and Bianchi. It basically says, we all do well, now let's see who's the best on these stages today. I don't shoot it enough, but will be for sure in the future. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pmd Posted August 24, 2007 Share Posted August 24, 2007 I agree that it would not effect who the winners of the match would be, but if you want variety shoot USPSA, IDPA, and ICORE. Leave the other sports alone for what they are. That's why we have different sports.My .02 +1 Or start a new match - The NJ Steel match "World Class Steel" http://www.worldclasssteel.com/ not too long ago was "Steel Challenge" match - they came up with their own stages. Stages are posted in advance - but different than other steel matches. You folks in Iowa did the similar thing and came up with your own steel match - The Big Dawgs. That match is different and alot of fun. One of the nice things about this sport is it's varity - if you don't like how a match is set up, you don't have to go. For those bored with how matches are set up - start a new match - I am sure lots of us would try it out.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted August 25, 2007 Share Posted August 25, 2007 yep Mike I remember I was smiling all the time I was typing. ...A tongue in cheek thing. Its kind of my Karma to remind people when they get to serious about things. I remember shooting with you I think the last time was 2004 Kind of a happy squad. I pushed to hard that year This thread would be one to kick around over a good meal. Your Idea is very good just not as a change to steel challenge but as a separate match. The old book had ten +stages to pick from At our club we change target setting around most of the year It is fun when a new stage comes out to figure out how to solve the problem. Even in its second year Accelerator is being shot in three dif ways I checked back on some of my goals from 7 years past and I still have not achieved most And practice truly is the only way I can do well at the event, I see lots of shoots with true talent, The only real talent I have is that I am hard headed and I don't give up when a sane person would. I do Like SC the way it is now , I like that the talented guys can get a big payday to motivate them to spend the practice time. I like being able to look back and see how a plan worked or didn't work. I see more things Rite with SC than I see wrong. The people at the event are great and the forum is a great way to share Jamie Seams like your advice for me back thin was to Lighten Up...wished I listened sooner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted August 25, 2007 Share Posted August 25, 2007 (edited) The sport isn't broken. The marketing just needs help. I guess it's too bad everyone else is bored and pissed off over shooting steel. In our neck of the woods, it's considered great fun and is very popular. And there's no law that says you *MUST* shoot the exact stages at the Steel Challenge. There's TONS of fun ways to shoot steel. You can do mini-shooting tests with all steel. You can set up a draw-only stage and weight the times. You can set up a mini-IPSC stage and give people some movement, but keep the ease and speed of steel. If your club's steel match is in a rut, it's hardly the fault of the medium. Edited August 25, 2007 by EricW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted August 25, 2007 Author Share Posted August 25, 2007 yep Mike I remember I was smiling all the time I was typing. ... It's all good, Bro! Don't anybody get me wrong, Steel Challenge is a really fun match, I would love to make it back out there again one of these years.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD45 Posted August 26, 2007 Share Posted August 26, 2007 Locally it would be a tough call to make. It really depends on whether most of your shooters are wanting to get good for a big match (since FL now has the nationals)or just want to have fun. If the main association would change to new, blind stages every year for the big sanctioned matches then everyone would feel free to do all sorts of new stages locally. I think that constently changing stages would increase local participation and even help the World shoot grow in the future. Even if it remains the same, I'll still keep shooting because I'm hooked. I finally broke 100 with a .22 iron sight gun (old seven stage course), so I'm just getting started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted August 26, 2007 Share Posted August 26, 2007 One of the cool things with SC is since the stages are the same, you can track your progress match to match and year to year absolutely.. no percentages versus some mythical 100% or whatever, just "how did I do versus that exact stage". That's what keeps me coming back. Knowing I can do better and seeing it.. sometimes Some people might not like what it tells them, but there it is. At local matches, by all means, mix it up. Maybe even get the Mikes to designate a dozen or so 'official' stages and use some subset of those, but take away the consistency and you take away what draws a lot of people-- it would be a totally different game. A fun game, but totally different. There would be no '80 second barrier' and no $30K riding on it. There would be no 'can I break 100 this year?'. There would be no world records on each stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted August 26, 2007 Share Posted August 26, 2007 Extra stages = I have an "old" book from 1999 that has a total of 14 stages in it. the book still has Outer Limits at 40 yards and the 12" plates at 25 yards any way Terminator, Paradox, Ziz Zag, Bermuda Triangle !Dooule Trouble ! and NO Best Way Double Trouble is a club favorite at home BUT It would be a nightmare to RO at a Big match. I came up with a stage too called XTerminator Kind of like an upsidedown Accelorator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JD45 Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 I like the looks of the old stage 'Triple Threat'. I wish they would use it to replace Pendulum. That stage is one big chore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 FWIW, I have a stash of old/other steel stage diagrams up on my web site-- http://www.shred2.net/.../OtherSteelMatchStages Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kamikaze1a Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 I totally enjoy SC but I don't feel it is any more repetitious than say bullseye shooting. Either discipline has it's attraction and the shooter with more time practicing should probably excel. IMHO, I would say my greatest challenge is trying to best my previous best... disclaimer; I don't feel bullseye is repetitious and was just using it as an example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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