driver8M3 Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 - Never tested positive- Only has testified in a federal grand jury investigating drug use in professional sports ummm, he admitted to using steroids in his grand jury testimony...he just said he did it unknowingly (as far as lame excuses, that ranks up there with sosa's my-corked-bat-was-only-for-BP-and-i-didn't-mean-to-use-it-in-a-game excuse). that's pretty much as good as a positive test in my mind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 His statement in the grand jury case is that IF he took them, he did not knowingly do so. Admitted to taking a series of supplements, but never steroids and again has yet to test positive. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasmap Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 (edited) He admitted to taking the Clear, which is an anabolic steroid. But "unkowingly." There was no test for it at the time and no serious testing program in MLB at the time. Edited August 10, 2007 by jasmap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjbine Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 Just look at his rookie card and you will know the answer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemo Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 Don't like the guy. But the fact that he hit that 9.25" in circumference and 142 grams rock, thrown at him at speeds generally exceeding 80mph, with a stick no-longer than 42", out of a field 400' deep in avg, is quite an accomplishment if you ask me. Hopefully in a couple of years we'll have the name RODRÍGUEZ as home run king. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DBeck77 Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 Totally tainted record, only a SF Giant fan can use enough rose colored glasses to not realize that Bonds was juicing and knew it. The guy's shoe size and hat size changed as an adult, that is pretty clear evidence that he is taking something. Plus he has no people skills, it is to bad he doesn't have the class of his godfathers or Hank Aaron. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 First, either a SF Giants fan or someone that can look at things objectively.... Update to my status as a terrorist: I'm a performance enhanced terrorist 'cause I take supplements given to me by a professional trainer that may or may not contain steroids. Since the US Army's drug testing program does not check for this, the mere accusation of me being a performance enhanced soldier is adequate to convict me rather than me testing positive on ANY test inspite of living in the United States and being granted the right of being innocent until proven guilty. Of course this standard applies only to issues that the mass public deam as truly important as in Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Choice (there is no such thing, but the public believes there is) and applicable to this board the 2nd Amendment. Your loving performance enhanced terrorist soldier (if only by accusation only), Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
driver8M3 Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 a lot of others are looking at things objectively too. his body shape changed drastically. various accounts by various people have him using steroids and HGH. now, this might not be enough for a court of law...but it's enough for me (and others) to take a reasoned, objective view that he has used steroids and or HGH. do you really think he hasn't used steroids of HGH? or are you just withholding judgement until more is known? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireant Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 Just look at his rookie card and you will know the answer! ROFLMAO that is great, I love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted August 10, 2007 Author Share Posted August 10, 2007 a lot of others are looking at things objectively too. his body shape changed drastically. various accounts by various people have him using steroids and HGH. now, this might not be enough for a court of law...but it's enough for me (and others) to take a reasoned, objective view that he has used steroids and or HGH.do you really think he hasn't used steroids of HGH? or are you just withholding judgement until more is known? Ahhhh... Not to be argumentative but..... I have gone from 213 to 258 in one year and have a lower % of body fat now....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EZ Bagger Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 Ahhhh... Not to be argumentative but..... I have gone from 213 to 258 in one year and have a lower % of body fat now....... Guess we'll get to see how they affect the shooting sports.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 (edited) Let's put it like this. I joined the Army my second time around in 2004 at the age of 30. Since: - I've lost about 40# of fat and added 20# of muscle - I went from doing 50 push-ups in 2 minutes to nearly 100 - My 2 mile run time went from 16:00 to 13:00 w/ occasionally in the middle 12's. - I can easily run my Division standard 4 miles in under 30 minutes w/ a 5 mile under 40 (below SF standards) - My 40m sprint time when I was 17 was 4.4. It's 4.28 now. I'm faster than 15 years ago? Am I performance enhanced or is it good training and dedication to improving my physical skills? My hat size has changed since I've been in. My pants size has shrunk and my jacket size has stayed about the same (tighter fitting in different places is all). So what do we know. What is true is that he's always been a great hitter. For someone that's supposedly on steroids though, he sure has slowed down in the outfield and on the bases (he's the 2nd member of the 40/40 club and hasn't come close to stealing a good amount of bases in a decade). All that has happened is that he's been accused. A book implicates a number of MLB atheletes in taking steroids, but again, no one tests positive. MLB is the problem here because like children, atheletes will try to gain an advantage any way they can if you don't check them. The technology is there to test atheletes for pretty much whatever you want. MLB and the Players' Association choose to ignore it. Why? $$$$ Heck, we had that at the '04 US3GN in Reno. Guy cheated on his rifle 'til he got caught. Even have had people ON THESE BOARDS, openly say that inspite of the rules, they will add parts to their firearms that directly violate the rules. No uproar over that. I'm not saying his hasn't taken steroids or other illegal supplements to get where he's at. What I'm saying is that while in the court of public opinion, he may be 'guilty', the FACTS are that he's not. I can say that I've met Barry Bonds (and I have) and not in a fan sense. I used to work for THE largest sports architecture firm in the world and one of my first projects was designing the then Pac Bell Park. Since Bonds was a marquee player at the time he was specifically interviewed by the design team for his input for the facility. Gentleman, friendly, but definitely all business. Again, not a media darling. Just does his job (playing baseball) and wants to go home to his family (much like another favorite player, Cal Ripken...who I also worked with). It's not his jobs to placate to the media. His job begins and ends on the field. Professional atheletes are not role models nor do they want to be. But, as a society, inspite of what we say, we want them to be. You can say that we don't care if they are but then we get angry when they commit crimes or do wrong or unethical behavior. If you didn't care then why get upset? If you don't like the atheletes in professional sports then don't support them. I don't watch the NBA or the NFL because I think the quality of the game is lower than in college. If you want to see some juiced up atheletes, take a look at the NFL. If he's ever found guilty, rest assured that I will be the first to say that ALL of his accomplishments are tainted. 20/20, 30/30 and 40/40 club. Countless MVP trophies. Golden Gloves, etc. The facts are that on paper he is arguably the greatest baseball player in the history of the game. Maybe not the best person, but we don't keep stats on that. Who he is as a baseball player again, begins and ends on the field. Rich ETA: Another reason atheletes and the sports organizations don't care about drugs, crimes, etc. is because WE DON'T CARE as a society. When MLB went on strike, fans still showed up. When the NFL was on strike, fans still showed up. NHL...the same. Olympic scandals, Tour de France, college atheletes using drugs, raping, recruitment scandals, et. al. You name a sport and it's got dirt and we still show up with jerseys, hats and banners in tow, because we don't care and above everything else and being TRULY objective, we are as much to blame as anyone else because we can speak with our wallets MUCH louder than our voices. Edited August 10, 2007 by uscbigdawg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
driver8M3 Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 rich and merlin both focused on part 1 (changed his body shape drastically) of my "evidence" that he used something. don't forget part 2...a rash of accusations by those sort of close to him. i've not heard any speculation that either of you has used steroids. but plenty of people have said bonds has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted August 10, 2007 Author Share Posted August 10, 2007 Again... Not trying to hard to be argumentative ...but.... A lot of the time those who do not wish to put forth the time and effort into something may look at someone who DOES take the time and effort...and say..(sour grapes) He must be doing drugs/steroids/cheating/or whatever because he is doing better than I. Maybe Barry was at the gym 6 days a week at 5:15 every morning.....? Barry might have been juicing but then again..... It might be that there are a bunch of jealous wannabes that are trying to verbally hyena the man.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bubber Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 I have to agree with Rich for the most part...But.. instead of "Innocent until proven guilty. Period. " I would rather say " Innocent, UNLESS, proven guilty" He said he is/was clean and most of the uproar is from a "BooK,(Something in the Sadows or the like)" A book written to make money. Believe him or not I will take him at his word. rdd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heavy Metal Only Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 HUGS NOT DRUGS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
outerlimits Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 i could care less about the juice. i'm 52 years old and i got to watch this guy hit balls out of places that are freaky for a lot of years. i grew up watching mays & mccovey do the same. just glad i got to witness this as well. any way u shake it, it's history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 In my former career I covered a fair amount of baseball --- from the Phillies 1993 season, culminating in the NLCS win, and covering one of the WS games, through Trenton's Thunder minor league team, college, high school and little league. I liked Little League better than the rest --- it's one of the few parts of the job I really miss....... :D The guy's shoe size and hat size changed as an adult, that is pretty clear evidence that he is taking something. David From my Anatomy and Physiology class: The two body parts that continue to grow throughout the adult lifespan are the nose and the feet...... :o Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajarrel Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 I really don't care if he took enuf exlax to relieve an elephant. My problem with Bonds is his attitude toward others. His status as a sports star almost demands a certain amount of access to the public. You know, that "role model" thing. But I've never seen an interview with him that he wasn't surly or just short with the interviewer. He doesn't have to be nice just civil. FWIW dj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 Let's put it like this. I joined the Army my second time around in 2004 at the age of 30. Since:- I've lost about 40# of fat and added 20# of muscle - I went from doing 50 push-ups in 2 minutes to nearly 100 - My 2 mile run time went from 16:00 to 13:00 w/ occasionally in the middle 12's. - I can easily run my Division standard 4 miles in under 30 minutes w/ a 5 mile under 40 (below SF standards) - My 40m sprint time when I was 17 was 4.4. It's 4.28 now. I'm faster than 15 years ago? Am I performance enhanced or is it good training and dedication to improving my physical skills? My hat size has changed since I've been in. My pants size has shrunk and my jacket size has stayed about the same (tighter fitting in different places is all). Again... Not trying to hard to be argumentative ...but.... A lot of the time those who do not wish to put forth the time and effort into something may look at someone who DOES take the time and effort...and say..(sour grapes) He must be doing drugs/steroids/cheating/or whatever because he is doing better than I.Maybe Barry was at the gym 6 days a week at 5:15 every morning.....? Back in my gym days...I would crush...just crush almost anybody in the gym. If you trained with me, you needed to have your shit together or you'd fall out. And, it was like this in any gym I'd walk into. It didn't matter if people were on the juice or not. I trained clean, but mostly I trained smart and hard...with good nutrition and proper rest. Nobody on the juice made better gains than I did working out clean. I don't know squat about BB's situation. I do know that it ain't rocket science to gain size and strength. And, pro athletes have more resources available to them than anybody on the planet. And, it woldn't be beyond some trainer to sneak some horse pills into a clients supplements. What I do know...is Merlin is good at stirring the shit pot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
driver8M3 Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 honestly, i don't care much either. after the strike i pretty much gave up being a baseball fan. i haven't paid much attention to it since then. it's hard not to notice the steroid issue...and my guess has been that bonds did use them. after reading the last few posts, i decided to look a little more into it, and found a bunch of stories, many reputable. this SI story was a pretty good read... http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/maga.../06/growth0313/ flex: there is little doubt that one can get bigger, and get there faster, with steroids/HGH. real clinical trials have proven this. do you think there has ever been a mr. olympia, in the history of the contest, that was not using???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 I totally agree with Rich as well. Fortunately in our justice system (perhaps one of the last great things about it), you need more than "he said." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 A question for you old time shooters who were around back in the day before we had all these divisions. When the first guy showed up with a red dot sight and won the nationals did anyone accuse him of cheating? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 Jerry Barnhart with an EO tech I think? No idea if anyone accused him of cheating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigDave Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 Jerry Barnhart with an EO tech I think?No idea if anyone accused him of cheating. Enos with an Aimpoint at Bianchi, actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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