Dealership Service people

[Merlin Orr]

Had an alternator go out on my old 03 Powerstroke yesterday. After several stops to partially jump charge I made it to the Ford dealership and left it to be "fixed." Got a call this morning..... "your batteries are dead and no good." But they are only 3 months old says I.... "Sorry - No good and $256 for another set.." say the Service Manager. OK... I say....

In about 30 minutes I get the call from the dealership... "Your alternator is bad. Must be replaced. $500.+" says the Service Manager. OK - Put the old batteries back on the truck...say I - "No can do." says the Service Manager. "You OKed the replacement and we can't take em out."

So... Am I wrong here by thinking the Ford Dealership probably has a charger gizmo that would tell the service people if the 3 month old batteries or the alternator was the problem?

IF I am wrong feel free to tell me.

[markcic]

Even Autozone has the correct gizmos and widgets to tell you if its the battery or alternator. The dealer doesn't have them because they don't care what is wrong. They will replace both just to charge you. Assuming they actually replace them and not just knock the dirt off the working part.

[Flatland Shooter]

Make sure the dealership returns your old parts, i.e. the batteries. Take them to a battery shop to see if they are any good. If they are, go back to the dealership screaming bloody h***. If the batteries are bad, get some sort of compensation on their warranty. Three month old batteries cratering just ain't right.

Bill

[Bwana Six-Gun]

i feel your pain. Went in last week for the 45000 on my truck. Service guy shows me to the waiting room and 20 minutes later calls me to his office. I'm thinking THAT WAS QUICK.

He proceeds to tell me that I need $750.00 worth of work on my truck. The book says change oil and filter, rotate tires, and check all fluid levels.

I tell him he is full of caca and just do whats in the book. You can't trust those suckers!!!

[Joe4d]

3 month batteries could be bad I doubt it but it is possible, especially if you had a failing alternator and the batteries were consitently being run allmost dead before you noticed problems, alternators will sometimes fail as opposed to work one day completely shot the next. I would demand my "bad batteries back" fully recharge them then take them to a Autozone or Pepboys for them to load test them usually free, try to get results in writing, If batterries are bad there bad, if they are good either through neglience or fraud dealership ripped you off, and I would let them know. Your battery warranty would work if they came from somewhere other than dealership but if they are dealership batteries, dealer will say your faulty electrical system fried the batteries so isnt covered.

[Merlin Orr]

Walmart batteries. Replaced the set a little less than 90 days ago. It may be that the alternator was going bad as I did notice some funny stuff with my lights when the truck was not running and the lights and radio were on....

[Nik Habicht]

I don't know how many options you have geographically speaking, but I was amazed after we moved, how good the local Chevy dealer's service department is. I went from incompetent ripoff artists (at the dealership where I purchased the Tahoe in 2002) who refused to order parts for a warranty repair, to a dealership that actually cares about my transportation needs......

On the other hand, the local Hyundai dealer wanted $12.50 per quart of Mobil 1 oil when Carol went in for her first oil change.......

Time to find another one of those.....

[JThompson]

You don't need no stinking machine. Pull the neg term at the battery when the car/truck is running. If it keep running then the alt is prob okay. If it dies then it's bad. There is some margin for error where the alt is working enough to keep the car running, but not enough to charge the bat and run the vehicle. I've never had that happen to me though and have tested many this way.

JT

[sfinney]

Many dealerships "throw parts at the problem", instead of doing good diagnostics..... many times it comes down to training (or lack there of). If the dealer did what you describe, called back 2 or 3 times, and kept adding parts, classic sign of a) service adviser not listening to the customer and writing it up correctly, and service tech not doing a thorough diagnostic, before starting to replace parts "til it works".

Take it to another dealership (quality of service work varies WILDLY from one to the next).

(side note: sometimes a bad alternator can make batteries go bad- if your alternator was weak, and the old batteries finally got overworked and died, the new batteries wouldn't last long either..... but they may be salvageable (after the alternator is replaced) get them checked at a reputable electrics shop).

[shred]

I find it usually well worth my time to not be available when getting oil changes or whatever done. That way they can't grab the grimy PCV valve off the shelf and try to sell you a new one or a tranny flush or undercoat top-sheeting or whatever the spiff-du-jour is.

[boz1911]

I do not recomend pulling off battery cables to check charging systems. Most late models will die when you do so anyway and you run the risk of damaging electrical components. Remember these cars/trucks have several computers that are very sensitive to electrical changes. Most automotive shops will check for a minimal fee with the right equipment.

Most vehicles will give you signs of battery/alternator problems, ie: Slower to start, weak dash lights, etc. That's when it needs to be checked, not when it's dead.

Battery quality from some of the big chains may leave something to be desired. I worked for one at one point and the number of battery comebacks was amazing. Remember, they beat the manufacturers down in price to enhance the bottom line, guess what follows....

I work in the automotive industry and we always provide customers with electrical problems written printouts to justify the replacement of batteries or charging system componenets. Merlin, I would look for that from your dealer, and remeber batteries kill alternators and alternators kill batteries.....refer back to 2nd paragraph.

[JThompson]

I do not recomend pulling off battery cables to check charging systems. Most late models will die when you do so anyway and you run the risk of damaging electrical components. Remember these cars/trucks have several computers that are very sensitive to electrical changes. Most automotive shops will check for a minimal fee with the right equipment.

Most vehicles will give you signs of battery/alternator problems, ie: Slower to start, weak dash lights, etc. That's when it needs to be checked, not when it's dead.

Battery quality from some of the big chains may leave something to be desired. I worked for one at one point and the number of battery comebacks was amazing. Remember, they beat the manufacturers down in price to enhance the bottom line, guess what follows....

I work in the automotive industry and we always provide customers with electrical problems written printouts to justify the replacement of batteries or charging system componenets. Merlin, I would look for that from your dealer, and remeber batteries kill alternators and alternators kill batteries.....refer back to 2nd paragraph.

If the battery is either dead shorted or will not accept the charge I fail to see how that could be worse to pull a cable. in the firt case you are shorting the alt in the second ther is little or no charge in the battery. All I can say is I never had a problem using this tech. You obviously have seen more than I have, but I shall keep doing what works for me.

The thing that I should have mentioned it to make sure your security system doesn't have the feature where it kills the stereo if power is removed from the system. Check you owners manual on that.

JT

[Rob Boudrie]

say I - "No can do." says the Service Manager. "You OKed the replacement and we can't take em out."

If you OKed the replacement based on the representation that the battery was, in fact, bad you probably have the basis for a small claims court case. If they told you it *might* be the battery, they're probably right. Start collecting documentaiton, names, etc. and don't take no for answer if you are in the right.

[Rennie]

You don't need no stinking machine. Pull the neg term at the battery when the car/truck is running. If it keep running then the alt is prob okay. If it dies then it's bad. There is some margin for error where the alt is working enough to keep the car running, but not enough to charge the bat and run the vehicle. I've never had that happen to me though and have tested many this way.

JT

If you do that on most modern computerized cars you stand a good chance of ruining a lot of control modules.

[Rennie]

I do not recomend pulling off battery cables to check charging systems. Most late models will die when you do so anyway and you run the risk of damaging electrical components. Remember these cars/trucks have several computers that are very sensitive to electrical changes. Most automotive shops will check for a minimal fee with the right equipment.

Most vehicles will give you signs of battery/alternator problems, ie: Slower to start, weak dash lights, etc. That's when it needs to be checked, not when it's dead.

Battery quality from some of the big chains may leave something to be desired. I worked for one at one point and the number of battery comebacks was amazing. Remember, they beat the manufacturers down in price to enhance the bottom line, guess what follows....

I work in the automotive industry and we always provide customers with electrical problems written printouts to justify the replacement of batteries or charging system componenets. Merlin, I would look for that from your dealer, and remeber batteries kill alternators and alternators kill batteries.....refer back to 2nd paragraph.

Very good advice.

Edited to stay in the rules.

Edited August 8, 2007 by Rennie

[Heavy Metal Only]

Damm dealerships, I had a dodge p/u and at the 38,000 mile mark the transmision went out. I took it to the dealership to hear nothing could be done. The service manager told me to call Dymler Christler and cry to them. Well I did and they ended upputting in a new transmision and charged me only $200.00. That saved me almost $2500.00. Point, complain to the auto maker let them fight with the dealership. They are the ones who want your service.

[Miranda]

oh this aint pretty .

A failed voltage regulator can kill a battery.

Most alternators have the voltage regulator in the alternator.

so here is my problem.

why two phone calls?

as a minor garage monkey when I got a car with a dead battery

(like yours) I charged the battery and started the car.

check battery voltage ....

over 16 volts means a problem

under 8 means a problem

both point at the alternator/v-reg as the problem.

stop car.

check battery again.

this would take about a half hour and I usually knew the problem.

often the battery was killed by the bad alternator.

you should have only gotten one ph call

for the 800 dollar bill....

take your vehicle somewhere else. They are not good mechanics.

[Tim James]

Since I do my own work on my '92 Mustang, I consider mechanics' fees a "tax" I have to pay when I take the girlfriend's car in or I need a rare welding job done to my car. I don't know how to interact with those people (who are basically salesmen) because I never need to use them. I usually shrug it off because I realize I'm well ahead of the game.

I will have to coax the girlfriend into buying an enthusiast-type car with a large Internet presence so I can learn how to do all the work myself. Like a BMW or something rather than a random people mover. Tow vehicles are a different story from what I hear, but I'll worry about that when I get there.

[folsoml]

Feeling your pain. Just Monday I took my wife's car in to get the brakes checked. $1018 later, I drive out with brakes, as well as new CV joints and two new tires on the front. I know nothing about fixing cars, so I don't know if I've been scammed or not.

[Miranda]

scammed or not....

ooof.

I am not a car mechanic now.

I think cars are expensive and maintaining them is not easy.

a good mechanic is not really able to tell you how long you can run with a small issue.

he can tell you the cost to fix the aparent problem.

In general take the 'upgrades' options with much salt.

(do not allow any additions to any brake job until you completely trust the shop

and there is no new management.....)

My in general bet is that any problem encountered during a 'brake' job

can await a future visit to the shop.

If you want a guage...

Look for a shop that has so much business that they slap the pads in

and tell you when you come to get the car,

"if we had more time today, we'd have called you to tell you your cv boots are cracked.

Come back in a couple of weeks and we'll replace the half shafts for x dollars

or repack and reboot for this x dollars.

See you soon, sir."

Keep in mind that some customers do not like to leave a shop in a car with a problem,

no matter how minor. They say FIX IT NOW!!!!!

An honest shop is often VERY busy.

and they do not need to go looking for business.....

think: 'why was a guy replacing pads looking at my CV boots?'

So, were you scammed? I do not know. That is why I recommend you find an honest shop.

your cv joints may well have fallen off in the guy's hands... so he did you a favor.... it is hard to tell.

possible solutions...

find a mechanic as a friend?

or...

try is to learn some basic mechanics,

it is easy and a little will help you know when you are being ripped.

miranda

[Tim James]

It's more than just knowing how cars work. I know that, but I don't interact with salesmen very well. I'm just a simple man who would rather pay an established market price than sit around haggling, but that kind of thing does not exist in some industries. You also have to be aware of the fair value for certain jobs and either have the personality or experience to know how and when to challenge someone.

For planned work, I would encourage calling around beforehand, because I'm usually too lazy to tell the guy to go to hell after the car's on the lift. It's not worth my time at that point. Of course that's more difficult when they call in about additional work, but that's what this thread is about, isn't it?

[Intel6]

My easy solution for getting work on my non-warrantied cars is to take it to my mechanic who also happens to be a shooter. He has reloading questions , gun problems or wants to do something to his guns, I am his "Mechanic." I take care of his guns and he takes care of my cars and I never question what he charges me or worry that I am getting bent over.

Neal in AZ

Edited August 9, 2007 by Intel6

[Merlin Orr]

Well.....I forgot to put in my post last evening that they had "forgotten" to put the 3 month old bad no good batteries in the back of my truck when I picked it up. So I went back this morning to pick them up and take them back to Wally World for testing and warranty replacement. During the pickup of the battery the assistant service manager I had been dealing with started a "conversation" with me in the ( well populated) waiting room/lobby of the dealership. Things did not go well and I ended up being escorted off the premises with an invitation to never return to the establishment.

I am VERY certain that I should feel lucky that things went as well as they did. I also think there may be a remote possibility that the service manager may give pause to consider should the same circumstance arise with another customer in the future.

The batteries tested fine (need charged) at WalMart. They will go in my RV......

[Sixgun]

Merlin,

If I was in your shoes...I would think about drafting a letter to Ford. Detail about the incompetent mechanics, the "forgetting" to give you back your "broken" parts, and the "conversation" with the service manager. I'd also say that they value you as a customer so much that you were asked never to return. My next question would be "I'm a loyal Ford owner, being asked not to return does not put me in a good mood to buy another Ford. What can be done to keep my loyalty?"

Things will never get any better other people, if the head honcho's don't know about the crappy service some dealerships give. Plus you may get something knocked off you bill, it's at least worth a shot.

Ray

[Flatland Shooter]

Merlin,

Its also worth the time to complain to the Better Business Bureau. Earlier this month I had a complaint about my cell phone provider. They refused to honor a rebate. I couldn't get anyone in the organization to listen. Their view was I was wrong and it was not going to change.

I then filed a complaint with the BBBonline. They forwarded the complaint to the BBB office local the the cell phone provider's HQ. The cell phone provider responded to both the BBB and me within a few days and completely resolved my complaint in less than 10 days.

Bill