New shooter

[jess]

Hi, I'm new to the forum but have been around it since my boyfriend Brett (hitman_usmc) pretty much lives on it. I want to get a gun to start shooting IDPA and a friend of his wants to sell me his barely used Springfield Trophy Match in 9mm. It has gunner grips, a mag well, and a fiber optic front sight on it. He said he wants $825 for it with two magazines. Is this a good deal? Also, since i need more magazines, which ones should i buy? Do you have any important tips for a beginner?

[Merlin Orr]

Welcome to the Forums, Jess.

Be a good of a gun as any and the price seems OK... I would perhaps consider a Glock 17. One on the USPSA Forums for about 1/2 of the price you are talking about - ready to go with pretty much all you need...

With that being said I would have the 1911...

Edit to add. As far as important tips for a beginner..... Stay away from any rules or IDPA discussions on this Forum!

Edited July 31, 2007 by Merlin Orr

[revchuck]

Jess - Welcome to the Forum!

Yeah, that's a fair deal - you're not being taken, and he's not losing (too much) money.

OTOH, see if you can handle and shoot other guns before you buy one. Talk to other shooters - especially other women about your size - and see what they think. We guys have our prejudices, and what we like might not be right for you. My own prejudice, for example, is S&W revolvers, which BTW do fit just about everybody and will outshoot most bottomfeeders...but you see what I mean? Seriously, check around before you put cash on the barrelhead. Most other shooters will be glad to let you try theirs out.

Edited July 31, 2007 by revchuck

[Joe4d]

Why is it barely used would be my question ? Id run a couple hundred rounds of Winchester white box through it. Non 45 acp 1911's can be finicky with the shorter cases like 9mm and .40. Some run great but not very many will do it out of the box. In theory its a great gun for IDPA as long as it's reliable. As far as mags look for 9 round metal follower 9mm mags you'll have the least heartache. Metalforms, 9 round metal follwer 9mm mags would be my choice. Question do you on a service 4-5" barrel auto pistol now ? or a 4" double action revolver ? The thing about IDPA is you can be competitive in one of the divisions with pretty much any service revolver or auto, as long as it's accurate and reliable, it will be awhile before your skill catches up with advantages a tuned and competition tweaked gun will give you.

[Joe D]

Welcome to IDPA. 9mm 1911s can be a little difficult to live with. Some feed and some don't. I have a 9mm/40 Kimber that is flawless. OTOH I have seen Springfields that had accuracy and feed issues.

The Springfield will put you in ESP. There are a couple of issues with ESP. First issue is it tends to be more competitive.

ESP is also where those SSP shooters that have moved up too far tend to shoot. Perfect example is the girl that moved up at the Nationals from MM to SS in ESP. What most failed to notice was she had already moved up to SS from MM in SSP months before. She used the same gun in ESP, that she shoots in SSP, at the Nationals.

I would just get a Glock 17/34 for half the cost. There is a reason Glocks own IDPA. They are cheap, accurate, go bang every time and you can't wear them out. Slap a LWD 3.5 connector in and you are good to go.

Revolver? What the heck is a revolver? Nobody shoots those anymore.

Edited July 31, 2007 by Joe D

[Flexmoney]

You'll want a gun that fits your hand and that your are comfortable with.

Are you just going to be shooting IDPA, or is USPSA also a possibility?

That 9mm Springfield that you posted about seems good (I'd take it for a nice test drive first). 9mm Glocks, the S&W M&P, and the Springfield XD are also popular choices. Some guns stores will let you try/rent those.

[dirtypool40]

Just my Lincolns, but everything you've read so far is open, honest and seems to be good advice.

The 1911 deal doesn't seem to be bad. And if it runs and has a nice trigger, you might just fall in love and save a LOT of money. After shooting a 9mm single stack you'll probably be ruined for everything else.

Failing that, if you're going to buy new, I'd have a look at the M&P. If you have small hands, the M&P with the smal backstrap has one of the smallest, most comfortable grips you'll find. Guys are doing positively AMAZING trigger work on these already. Very easy gun to shoot.

As to which game to shoot, come on out and try them all. USPSA will be more challenging with the difficulty of the shots required, but you can play with a 10 round 9mm single stack and have some fun. IDPA will be easier shots which new shooters often like, but all the rules and interpretational discourse can be intimidating. OF course if your boyfriend's name is USMC HITMAN that might spare you most of it.

Come out, have fun, shoot everything you can get your hands on, in every different type of match you can get to.

Welcome.

Edited July 31, 2007 by dirtypool40

[tightloop]

+1 to the advise already given...gleen what you need from it...

[Thomas Moore]

I like the Glock 35, I know..."but Tom you shoot a STI".

If i were just starting out and wanted to shoot both IDPA and USPSA, which is a great way to get good fast. I would shoot a Glock 35 because you can shoot it in 5 different divisions if you load your own. The Glock 35 can be shot in two divisions for IDPA which is SSP and ESP. In USPSA the Glock 35 can be shot in Production, Limited 10 and Limited with the addition of Dawson basepads.

Good luck with your decision.

[Albert]

I'll agree with others who have pointed out some great advice on the 9mm 1911. I thought it would be the perfect competitive ESP gun for IDPA but had considerable trouble with reliability with mine (also a Springfield target 9mm). After much work from the gunsmith it started to work well but I lost interest in it and went to a Glock 34.

If you get to shoot it to try it out and it doesn't cause any problems and fits great in your hand go for it.

9 round metal mags is a good suggestion. If you have someone loading rounds for you, long loaded 9mm rounds will work in the 10 rd 38 super Wilson magazines (although some have had difficulty with that magazine). I'd stick with metalform 9rd metal 9mm magazines.

I've now got mine set up with slim grips and magwell hoping my wife or daughter may eventually pick it up and start shooting it.

[Sharyn]

Welcome!

I started with a 1911 .45... shot my first 1911 9mm just a couple months ago and loved it. I just can't get the hang of Glocks (or revolvers ) and really prefer the 1911 platform. Nothing is more frustrating or detrimental to your shooting potential than a gun that doesn't run well. When I buy stock guns (like the Springfield you're looking at) I buy them knowing that I'm going to put some money into them to get them just right for me.

Important tips...

Shoot what you want to shoot... even if you end up not liking it later (sell it and buy something else, no big deal). Don't feel pressured into shooting any gun, class, division or sport that Tom, Dick and Harry says would be best for "you".

Stick with one person to work on your gun. Everyone will offer, but it's best to just work with ONE qualified gunsmith... (boyfriends are never gunsmiths ). You WILL need a good gunsmith if you plan on shooting competition... start building a good, trusting relationship with one.

"Limp wristing" is a myth. You will hear the term... just smile and ignore it... then go talk to your one trusted gunsmith.

Invest in good gear (I recommend Comp-tac, http://comp-tac.com/ , Greg Garrett is a great guy, with great products who understands the different requirements a female shooter may have.) I bought an Uncle Mike's holster in the beginning... the money I "saved" is at the bottom of my pile of shooting stuff.

Sure... borrow and try out someone else's gear in the beginning... but if you get more serious about competition, don't let your gear hold you back. Yes, it's the "indian not the arrow" but there's no reason to shoot bent arrows.

Have fun!

[Jim Watson]

Springfield only catalogs the Trophy Match in .45 ACP, but they will take special orders. However, they make a Loaded 9mm with adjustable sights that looks similar at a lower price. If the gun or original box is marked Trophy Match, then it is a good deal. If not, then it is so-so.

Since it is "barely used" then he won't mind you trying it out, will he? It should be 100% with hardball ammunition, no excuses, no "break-in", no nothing; or you would be better off with Something Else.

The usual recommendation is the Springfield/Leatham "Front Ramp" 9mm magazine made for them by Metalform. It has a flute down the front to hold the short cartridges to the rear of the magazine for better feeding than the old Colt design with a rear spacer. They only hold nine rounds, there are people who will tell you that 9+1 is desirable because of the large number of double tap targets you will run into; so you reload between targets instead of on one.

Joe D makes his wife shoot a Glock.

As he says, they are cheap, simple, and durable. And you can shoot one in USPSA Production if you branch out.

[Joe D]

Jim brings up a good point. I have never seen a Trophy Match in 9mm. If it does not say Trophy Match on the slide then it is a regular Loaded Springfield. Most folks, me included, have not had good luck with the SA 9mm. At the very least it will need a better barrel fitted to improve accuracy and feeding.

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: I would borrow the pistol to see if it what you want to shoot. I'm sure he will let you shoot it in 2 matches or so. I would also borrow a Glock 17 or 34 if you don't reload. If you reload look at the Glock 35. The Glock platform is hard to beat since you don't have to mess with the safety and there are lots of parts for them. I like my Kimber 10mm/9mm/40 Eclispe. It runs perfect in 9mm and 40S&W. Right now I am comparing my Kimber 9mm 1911 and a Glock 34 to see which one I shoot better. Good luck on your shooting and I hope this helps. Thanks, Eric

[JD45]

I'll second what others are saying about a test-drive. If that Springfield will shoot good groups with an affordable match load, I'd say it is worth the price. If it won't, be prepared to spend some on barrel fitting.

[jess]

Thanks for all the the info. Just for more information, the owner was using it untill he decided to get a new STI .40 sigle stack because he's the kind of guy that has to buy a new gun every few weeks for some reason. He is a very close friend of ours and will let me use the gun as much as I want and pay when I (AKA my boyfriend) feel like it. I have seen him shoot it at a few matches with my boyfriend and not have any problems. I even put a couple of magazines through it after a match once and it didn't have any problems, maybe it was just a lucky one. So, I think I'll get ahold of it and try it out for a few matches before I make my boyfriend pay for it. Thanks again for all of the help!

Jess

[tightloop]

Hi, I'm new to the forum but have been around it since my boyfriend Brett (hitman_usmc) pretty much lives on it. I want to get a gun to start shooting IDPA and a friend of his wants to sell me his barely used Springfield Trophy Match in 9mm. It has gunner grips, a mag well, and a fiber optic front sight on it. He said he wants $825 for it with two magazines. Is this a good deal? Also, since i need more magazines, which ones should i buy? Do you have any important tips for a beginner?

If he was a great boy friend, he'd give you the gun and rig you out to shoot with him...

[jess]

Hi, I'm new to the forum but have been around it since my boyfriend Brett (hitman_usmc) pretty much lives on it. I want to get a gun to start shooting IDPA and a friend of his wants to sell me his barely used Springfield Trophy Match in 9mm. It has gunner grips, a mag well, and a fiber optic front sight on it. He said he wants $825 for it with two magazines. Is this a good deal? Also, since i need more magazines, which ones should i buy? Do you have any important tips for a beginner?

If he was a great boy friend, he'd give you the gun and rig you out to shoot with him...

He is a great boyfriend, he's buying me the gun, and I'm going to buy most of my gear. I figured that was fair because he's been trying to get me to shoot with him for about a year.

[tacted]

Sounds like a plan ! Have a great time shooting, especially if you are shooting with your best bud .

[kdmoore]

Notice the number of responses that said .... "try the glock out to see if it's reliable".

If I had to do it all over again, I'd have bought a 9mm Glock to start with and forced myself to train into it (I didn't like the ergonomics or trigger to start with). When I wanted to branch out, I'd have bought a .40 glock, or a .45 glock.

A 1911 that is running is a thing of beauty and I doubt there's a finer pistol out there. ..... but they are finicky, and they will need tweaking along the way. I think they are a lot more finicky (than other options)when it comes to spring replacements, and feed lips bending .... and it sucks to find that out during a match!

For full disclosure,

1. I don't work for Glock, I don't own a Glock, I don't even shoot them well when I borrow one.

2. I have several 1911's, one works very well, the others (including a 9mm 1911 are currently in need of tweaks).

3. I didn't buy a pistol with competition in mind, I got hooked (immediately and completely at the first match). My pistol collection is diverse, most pistols I purchased were to increase the diversity. (calibers, platforms, roles).

[Chills1994]

Okay, I'll admit it, I am a drinker of the Beretta Kool-Aid. They just run and run and run. The open top slide means that there really is no ejection port so it gives the just fired brass plenty of room/time to get ejected out of the good, which in turn means not Failures to Eject (FTE's).

I have never had a Beretta jam on me once, on the feeding part of the cycle either.

The downside is that the grip is big for what it is: a full size 9mm or .40 "duty weapon". So for the women folk, like yourself, your fingers might be too short.

This guy seems to shoot a Beretta okay (sorry, Ben, couldn't resist):

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=879826666459471063

(yes, that's a sub 4 second El Prez, according to Ben it was 5 C's and 1 D, IIRC)

Edited August 6, 2007 by Chills1994

[Buzzdraw]

The usual recommendation is the Springfield/Leatham "Front Ramp" 9mm magazine made for them by Metalform. It has a flute down the front to hold the short cartridges to the rear of the magazine for better feeding than the old Colt design with a rear spacer. They only hold nine rounds, there are people who will tell you that 9+1 is desirable because of the large number of double tap targets you will run into; so you reload between targets instead of on one.

I prefer the "front ramps" too; they will have to be tuned and deburred perfectly. The mags are a big part to getting the gun to run.

The 9mm in 1911 platforms can be finicky to get ammo just right. Once you get it right, the gun will be ultra dependable and probably more accurate than a stock Glock.

When test firing the SA, be certain to look for primer debris. I've run into a few of these with oversize firing pin holes (not just SA). Primers will appear cratered on just about every round fired, even if load is well under max pressure. This is a serious safety issue if it exists. If you end up with small chunks of primer brass scattered on top of frame by the disconnect as well as in breech area, then you better carefully measure the firing pin hole.

[Jim Watson]

Best thing to do about the firing pin and/or hole on a Springfield is to put in an Ed Brown #826 steel firing pin and a Wolff (slightly stronger than) standard firing pin spring instead of the titanium f.p. and stiff spring. I have a SA Ultra Compact that smeared primers every shot with the factory rig but gives normal indents with normal lockwork.

[Buzzdraw]

Best thing to do about the firing pin and/or hole on a Springfield is to put in an Ed Brown #826 steel firing pin and a Wolff (slightly stronger than) standard firing pin spring instead of the titanium f.p. and stiff spring. I have a SA Ultra Compact that smeared primers every shot with the factory rig but gives normal indents with normal lockwork.

Jim's fix is for a different situation than I'm referring to. I've seen problems in functioning in 1911's caused by a titanium f.p. too and also recommend a good steel one. I'm pointing out a circumstance of a truly overlarge firing pin hole. At times during the machining of a slide, the tool cutting the pin hole will wobble causing a grossly oversize pin hole. A standard dimension pin, even one on the big end of the size range won't fix this problem. The big gap between the firing pin and its hole in the breech face will cut "donuts" out of pretty much every primer fired. It's not common, but I've seen it in several slides. Often a firing pin bushing (available from Clark), pressed into the breechface, fixes the problem. If the pin hole is really crooked, then the slide may be fried.

[Jim Watson]

True.

I guess I have tunnel vision. I have had the titanium firing pin blues but have never encountered a grossly oversized or offcenter firing pin hole.

Diagnose the problem before applying a cure.

Of the two "front ramp" magazines that came with my SA 9mm, one worked (and still works) perfectly, the other did not work at all. SA replaced it on warranty and the replacement required "tuning". Luck of the draw.