Dan Sierpina Posted July 22, 2007 Share Posted July 22, 2007 I know I am on to something with the 20 guage (Bruce P knows it too)....... and pretty much proved it to ya in the class Tim I remember the Clarks playing with the 20 in the last decade. Kay just spoke up asking about speed laoders for them. I remember hearing about Jimmy loading 20 ga. slugs in normal 12 gage wads. Things go in cycles, don't they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear1142 Posted July 22, 2007 Share Posted July 22, 2007 all the speed in the world matters not, if you miss a target. Tru dat! But it is fun to open her up once in a while! Erik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike.45 Posted July 23, 2007 Share Posted July 23, 2007 I liked Erics video, there was very little muzzle lift (was one of his brakes on the end of the barrel ?) but cant help thinking that moth / pesky fly or whatever, caught his attention, on his left side and slowed him down somewhat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRUBL Posted July 24, 2007 Author Share Posted July 24, 2007 (edited) I remember the Clarks playing with the 20 in the last decade. Kay just spoke up asking about speed laoders for them. I remember hearing about Jimmy loading 20 ga. slugs in normal 12 gage wads. Things go in cycles, don't they? Only this time......I think it is here to stay. Better shell selection.....and more accessories availible, the only problem comes in with 20 guage open and the speed loaders for the ave. person, however Gentle Jim, in an other post seems to have figured out an easy way to solve that. If the ONLY advantage is shell loading......thats enough. But there is more, the recoil, maybe not less (I think it is) but faster, meaning faster recovery time. ' You hog out the loading area on a 20 gauge to get your thumb in there.....and if you load (4) 12ga now in your gun, you will probably load (4) 20's with more confidence (and with confidence.....comes speed). Also....there were 5 20 gauge shotguns at the CMMG match, and at the DPMS tri gun this year......I believe you will see atleast 6 if not 8 20 gauge shotguns. Last year there was only 1 (mine). I think you will not see this as a cycle....more as a growing part of the 3 gun. More so than the mag fed shotguns. I think that the 20 gauge is VERY competitive, maybe to the point that some of the big names may really start looking at it harder. (However they may not admit it....yet) Edited July 24, 2007 by TRUBL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Payne Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 Not meaning to change the direction of the thread. We are allowed to shoot 9mm handgun and the poppers are calibrated for that round. The long range steel is set so it can be activated by the .223 rifle round. We use those cartidges partly because they have lower recoil and quicker recovery time. Should the steel at matches be calibrated so that it falls with 20 ga. ammo.? Since 20 ga. is allowed at most venues. By this I mean should poppers at 35 yrds. be set so 20 ga. will take them down, much the same as they have to be calibrated for the 9mm round? I ask this only because people say the 20 ga. will not take down longer range steel as well as the 12 ga. Not meaning to open up a can of worms, just a question for curiosity. Payne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRUBL Posted July 24, 2007 Author Share Posted July 24, 2007 (edited) Actually......Heck....it's my thread, we can drift if we want I believe that there is something to that effect somewhere in the USPSA rules, or that they are supposed to use a 1oz 2 3/4 dram 8 shot for calibrating.....I need to look to make sure. Ofcourse, Ole' Bob at the Tri-Gun uses his calibrated thumb which is a good test, for those of you that know him. FOR USPSA....they talk about calibration with an open choked shotgun and a 7 or 7.5 shot shell that does not go above 520PF. Thats a 1 once load at 1100 (give or take) FPS. Knowing that you have a lot of 'wasted' shot......a 7/8 load at the same speed, typically will also knock over the same popper....as we saw at the class. (Rule in force......2004 shotgun rules...appendix C) For IMGA.......not really mentioned, however, most follow the USPSA criteria......give or take some Edited July 24, 2007 by TRUBL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keith Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 Heya Sgt!!I asked this post for your benefit....to show you guys that you done good!!!! This sgt can load weak hand purdy darn good......and I seen him do 6 or 7 20 gauge shells at a time too!! I know I am on to something with the 20 guage (Bruce P knows it too)....... and pretty much proved it to ya in the class Uhmmmm......we have followers for the 20 gauge. Tim SGT is someone to look out for. He's been whooping on all of us Minnesotans so far this year. His son is not too shabby with an iron sighted AR, either. Sorry I couldn't make it to the classes, Timmy. I'm already shooting organized leagues 3 times a week, not including weekends. But the way everyone's been beating up on me I should have signed up. If anybody needs me I'll be in the Zen forum trying to get my sh*t together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRUBL Posted July 24, 2007 Author Share Posted July 24, 2007 (edited) Yep......I think he is gonna bring a BIG can of whoopa$$ this weekend Kieth. But he is cheating you know......practicing!!!! And yes....you should have taken the class.....your fault, not mine. Edited July 24, 2007 by TRUBL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillL223 Posted July 24, 2007 Share Posted July 24, 2007 I have RO'd and shot the Shotgun Side Match at the PSA Shoot-out for many years. The old course of fire was 5 poppers spread out about 10 yards wide and 10 -15 yards deep. Start was gun on shoulder touching a table. Winning times were about 1.46. My best was 1.57. First shot had to be less then .5 to be competitive. That results in about .25 splits while moving between targets. I have shot a .15 split with slugs on a swinger with my Benelli. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miki Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Hello! I am realy new here, but if I understand, you are talking about split times with automatic shotguns... What about split times with manualy operated shotgun??? My best (I have yet shot only about 200 rounds in my life) was 0.32 transition at 12yard small poper... Miki. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny hill Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 If you run .32 on poppers with a pump, you will win most stages IF you can load fast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EvilPJ Posted August 17, 2007 Share Posted August 17, 2007 Here is now a classic video of me doing 10 round mag test runs with Saiga-12. 1.1s run. PJ's Saiga video I have been having too much trouble with that gun lately so maybe it is time to shoot in standard division next year... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 You want super-human splits?? Hows about a timed and witnessed .06. NO it wasn't a Benelli, it wasn't full auto, it was one shotgun...matter of fact most "attempts" produce 1 recorded shot on the timer so they were even faster than .08, I bet even the BEAR can't come close to that! I sure wish I had it on film as it was sure painful and yet fun to do! Let,s see if any of you can figure it out. The only hint you get is that it has Damascas barrels and it was fired with Black Powder cartridges! KURTM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry White Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 (edited) You want super-human splits?? Hows about a timed and witnessed .06. NO it wasn't a Benelli, it wasn't full auto, it was one shotgun...matter of fact most "attempts" produce 1 recorded shot on the timer so they were even faster than .08, I bet even the BEAR can't come close to that! I sure wish I had it on film as it was sure painful and yet fun to do! Let,s see if any of you can figure it out. The only hint you get is that it has Damascas barrels and it was fired with Black Powder cartridges! KURTM Must have been an 8 guage or larger punt gun, all poppers down with one or two shots. -------------Larry Edited August 18, 2007 by lkytx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 You want super-human splits?? Hows about a timed and witnessed .06. NO it wasn't a Benelli, it wasn't full auto, it was one shotgun...matter of fact most "attempts" produce 1 recorded shot on the timer so they were even faster than .08, I bet even the BEAR can't come close to that! I sure wish I had it on film as it was sure painful and yet fun to do! Let,s see if any of you can figure it out. The only hint you get is that it has Damascas barrels and it was fired with Black Powder cartridges! KURTM Two triggers, two hammers and two barrels..... An old double barreled shotgun from days of yore.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 Yep! an old side by side...but how did we get that split? Yes it is only one split but hey it was a split! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRUBL Posted August 18, 2007 Author Share Posted August 18, 2007 Well, been practicing (me?? practice???) Yep I really have been. And with the Benelli been consistantly getting .21 to .25 splits and just can't below .19, must just be darn old or something. I am thinking that is just above average as there is no way I can be that good. Anyways, the guys I've practicing with are getting just a little faster .20 to .23 and one open guy pulling in.24 to 28 splits. So I amy gonna say if you you can get .20 splits or under consistanly in practice thats great!!! I also think that .18 or below is touchin on super human......and .14 is, well, a broken sear or a full auto shotgun (thats like 425 rounds a minute!!) Infact: .30 splits = 200rpm .26 splits = 230rpm .22 splits = 272rpm .18 splits = 333rpm On a 24 round COF (not including reloads) the difference between .30 splits and a .22 splits could potentially mean 1.76 seconds......not tooo much, meaning, HE WHO RELOADS FASTER.....WINS. Go figure.......Kurt floats to the top again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jobob Posted August 18, 2007 Share Posted August 18, 2007 must just be darn old or something. Yep, that old thing keeps chasing me too! I'd like to say I don't want to get old, but the alternative rather sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny hill Posted August 27, 2007 Share Posted August 27, 2007 Check out the DPMS stage results for the 3 shotgun stages & you will see the splits have not much to do with it, but rather the reaction & loading times as it purty much is at most matches. Don't forget the accuracy also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike.45 Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 Benny, well said, totally agree, and well done at DPMS and I spoke to Kurt and he says you kicked his ass with the guage (my words, not his ) - I guess you were that 1 second faster ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny hill Posted August 28, 2007 Share Posted August 28, 2007 Mike, out of all the hand loaders there, I think I was a close 2nd. Not bad for a old load them one at a time guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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