ChrisStock Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 After finally getting my head in gear with all of the suggestions here, I have a decent handle on loading for my 9MM. I recently picked up an M&P in .40, and want to start reloading for it to possibly make a run at shooting production class. I have gotten spoiled by acquiring buckets of 1X fired 9MM brass, usually all that I can carry, so range scrap has not been an issue unless I have managed to achieve total brain freeze. Here's the rub, 60-70% of range brass some 1Xfired (that I bought), and a lot of what I have picked up from a local range,( a lot of it also 1X fired, some reloads) will NOT fit in the Dillon .40 case gauge, either prior to loading or after. There is no bell visible on the case, and I even went to the trouble of running the problem pieces through stage 4 of my 550 to remove any belling. Is it normal to have this much grief with .40 brass? The manufacturers run the spectrum... a little of everything, and no one brand seems suspect. Is this perhaps caused by the higher pressures and fire forming in the chamber? I love my M&P, and am trying to find a cheaper way to shoot it, as $22/100 is killing my credit card rapidly. Thanks, folks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-Ho Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 After finally getting my head in gear with all of the suggestions here, I have a decent handle on loading for my 9MM. I recently picked up an M&P in .40, and want to start reloading for it to possibly make a run at shooting production class. I have gotten spoiled by acquiring buckets of 1X fired 9MM brass, usually all that I can carry, so range scrap has not been an issue unless I have managed to achieve total brain freeze.Here's the rub, 60-70% of range brass some 1Xfired (that I bought), and a lot of what I have picked up from a local range,( a lot of it also 1X fired, some reloads) will NOT fit in the Dillon .40 case gauge, either prior to loading or after. There is no bell visible on the case, and I even went to the trouble of running the problem pieces through stage 4 of my 550 to remove any belling. Is it normal to have this much grief with .40 brass? The manufacturers run the spectrum... a little of everything, and no one brand seems suspect. Is this perhaps caused by the higher pressures and fire forming in the chamber? I love my M&P, and am trying to find a cheaper way to shoot it, as $22/100 is killing my credit card rapidly. Thanks, folks! Will they rounds fit in the case gauge made specifically for your gun? In other words, stick 'em in the gun see if they go bang. Also try a full length resizer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caspian guy Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 The brass was likely originally shot through a pistol with an unsupported chamber (Glock or others). This usually leaves a small bulge at the bottom where a standard re-sizeing die won't get to. There are a couple of home solutions to this problem. One is an EGW U die. The other is a CasePro rollsizer . The U die is cheap maybe $30 http://egw-guns.com/catalog/product_info.p...210cd5017da678f The Case Pro is expensive and represents an extra step in the reloading process (seperate machine that the brass must be processed through first.) Another possibility is to find a source of roll-sized brass (removes this bulge). There used to be a company Scarch Manufacturing that made roll sizing equipment used by commercial reloaders and they also sold processed brass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisStock Posted July 2, 2007 Author Share Posted July 2, 2007 I am using the .40 S&W case gauge from Dillon to check sizing. Ones that were even close to being out of spec there I loaded, then attempted to chamber from a magazine. About 2/3 of them chamber ok. The others are so thick that they will not fully chamber, and it requires SERIOUS muscle to get them to extract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 I am using the .40 S&W case gauge from Dillon to check sizing. Ones that were even close to being out of spec there I loaded, then attempted to chamber from a magazine. About 2/3 of them chamber ok. The others are so thick that they will not fully chamber, and it requires SERIOUS muscle to get them to extract. If you don't know the source of the brass (what gun it was fired in) the only way to prevent these problems is to run them through a Case Pro or an EGW Undersized die (it's .001 smaller and profiled to get the bottom of the case). Once you run them through there once, you won't have to do it again if you're going to shoot it in the same gun. Many people say that the ammo has been fired in "unsupported" chambers, but that's not really correct. Glocks are some of the worst at creating cases like this, but they have a fully supported case (feed ramp goes right up to the case at the very edge of the extractor groove). The problem is that the chamber is oversized in that area...the case is supported, after it's allowed to expand a bit more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
38superman Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 (edited) I have run tons of 40 range brass through my Limited gun. The problem is that some of the brass is so swollen that it wont drop through the sleeve at the bottom of the case feeder. I routinely run range brass though a single stage press with a standard RCBS carbide sizer die. It gets sized again and run through a Lee factory crimp die in the 650. That normally takes care of any problems. I don't gauge the finished rounds, but haven't experienced any feeding problems. Tony Edited July 2, 2007 by 38superman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasmap Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 +1 on the Lee die or the EGW U Lee die. I was having a similar problem and this solved it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisStock Posted July 2, 2007 Author Share Posted July 2, 2007 I have heard of this die while lurking here a lot, so now comes the question. Is this it? It appears to replace the standard de-capping die on station 1 on the 550, and for $22 I'll likely order it this week in order to salvage 10K of .40 brass. It says it only reduces by .001, and I hope that'll be enough to take care of the problem. Thanks for the input folks, I knew the answer was here. Just another reason this is such a great forum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caspian guy Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Yep that is the one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 That's it! (*Just be sure to order one in .40 ) A little One-Shot case lube is your other best friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 Hello: I have a Lee 40 S&W sizing die that is the same as the EGW "U" die from what I have seen. I'd sell it for $22 shipped. Thanks, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G-ManBart Posted July 2, 2007 Share Posted July 2, 2007 I have heard of this die while lurking here a lot, so now comes the question. Is this it? It appears to replace the standard de-capping die on station 1 on the 550, and for $22 I'll likely order it this week in order to salvage 10K of .40 brass. It says it only reduces by .001, and I hope that'll be enough to take care of the problem. Thanks for the input folks, I knew the answer was here. Just another reason this is such a great forum That's the one. Not only is it the .001 undersized, but the profile of the die that makes it work so well. Most dies made for progressive presses have more of a funnel into the resizing die so that they feed the cases smoothly. The problem with that is it leaves some of the case resized less. The Lee/EGW U-die doesn't have that kind of taper in it so that it gets to the very bottom. You'll make your life easier by using case lube. I won't argue against some of the big name lubricants, but there is an easier way (in my opinon). Get some pure, unscented lanolin from the drugstore. Put a couple hundred tumbled cases into a box. Put a very, very small amount of lanolin on your hands (like half the size of a pencil eraser will do)....work it onto your hands and then lightly run them around in the cases...you only have to touch every third or fourth case. Wash your hands and start reloading. You won't have to clean the cases afterwards and they won't be sticky or slippery. Many case lubes use lanolin as the lubricant, but they deliver it in a different method. A tube of the stuff will last you years and costs maybe $10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisStock Posted July 2, 2007 Author Share Posted July 2, 2007 (edited) Alright... I just came out of the garage/reloading area and pulled 100 pieces of .40 brass at random. The diameter of the brass that fails to pass the Dillon case gauge is pretty uniformly expanded out between .426- .428.The diameter at the exact same point on pieces of brass that do pass the case gauge test is .415 - .416. A hundredth of an inch can be a plug ugly nightmare...so close yet so far. Hopefully the EGW die corrects this, as I just received permission from the dear wife to order it The lanolin tip sounds interesting, as I have been using 1shot, and it makes a HUGE difference. The only thing that I don't like about it is the fact that it leves everything sticky, and tumbling doesn't get it all off. This especially bad when I am loading cast lead and my hands have a very difficult to remove black glue like mess left on them after loading a few magazines up. Thanks again guys, and I sincerely hope another new reloader to .40 finds this useful. Edited July 2, 2007 by Lighteye67 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisStock Posted July 18, 2007 Author Share Posted July 18, 2007 I was able to salvage all of my .40 brass thanks to the EGW die... rescued from ignorance by the helpful folks here on the forums. I sent 300 rounds downrange at yesterday's practice without a hitch. It was a beautiful thing. No problems with any other calibers, just .40, and now it's not an issue. 2 - 5 Gal buckets of .40 brass is a good thing to have lying around, and life is good. Now to find the lanolin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry White Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 If one shot is leaving you with a mess you are useing too much of it. Amazing how little it takes to get the job done.------------Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L9X25 Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 If one shot is leaving you with a mess you are useing too much of it. Amazing how little it takes to get the job done.------------Larry +1 You only have to spray enough so that every 3rd or 4th piece of brass gets some on it and it will keep the die lubricated. If you are getting lube on every single piece you are using way too much and causing the mess. I have never tumbled or cleaned the one shot off of my loaded rounds and you cannot even tell that the cases were lubed. No build-up, no mess, and the press operates just as smoothly as with too much lube. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Griffin Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 Check the bad cases, see if the primers have a rectangular indentation around the strike. Good way to see if it is glocks that are causing it. H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisStock Posted July 18, 2007 Author Share Posted July 18, 2007 L9X25 phrased it just right to save me from my own wrongheadedness yet again. I definitely put the cart before the horse... I was under the impression that every case had to have lube on it. The reasoning that just the die has to be kept lubed makes infinitely much more sense and will fix the stickiness issue. It was getting to be a pain having to clean up my hands after reloading all of my magazines due to lead and lube coming off all over my fingers. Thanks Leo! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 PaulW has me strung out on Silicone spray. And I leave it on loaded rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L9X25 Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 PaulW has me strung out on Silicone spray. And I leave it on loaded rounds. Does the silicone spray damage the powder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveZ Posted July 18, 2007 Share Posted July 18, 2007 (edited) ... the only way to prevent these problems is to run them through a Case Pro or an EGW Undersized die There's another way....and its free if you are using Dillon dies. Real all about it here! http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...&hl=carbide EricW came up with this idea and it works. I sometimes get 40 brass that has been Glocked...I've modified my Dillon sizing die per EricW's instructions...never had a problem...and I don't have to use case lube. Edited July 18, 2007 by SteveZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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