How many members of each class?

[The Monster]

Does anyone know how many GM's there are, Masters, A class, regardless of division? I am just curious because when I tell people outside of the sport about my classification, they always ask, "how many are there in the country?"

[joseywales]

Does anyone know how many GM's there are, Masters, A class, regardless of division? I am just curious because when I tell people outside of the sport about my classification, they always ask, "how many are there in the country?"

USPSA.org, press Additional Content button on left menu, select Classifiers by State.

[baa]

Here is the stats from USPSA in mid Apri-

Open

GM 124

M 483

A 717

B 1518

C 1572

D 456

Total: 4870

Limited:

GM 113

M 432

A 785

B 2105

C 3045

D 1219

Total: 7699

Limited-10:

GM 26

M 146

A 419

B 1012

C 2214

D 1078

Total: 4495

Production:

GM 27

M 109

A 290

B 709

C 1486

D 775

Total: 3396

Revolver:

GM 5

M 30

A 76

B 200

C 453

D 180

Total: 944 l

[GentlemanJim]

It seems as if about half of A class is hiding in B class

I feel like a minnow in shark infested waters

Jim

[Jim Norman]

The stats above fail miserably to tell the whole story. (and a sad story it is)

USPSA has arguably 15,000 plus/minus members. We seem to gain very few on an annual basis. Many people have more than one classifcation, Personally I have shot classifers in 5 divisions and eventually will in #6. Tham means that I, like many others are represented in the paltry 9600 number above multiple times.

What we need is some what to generate more interest in our type of shooting and some what to break down the barriers that the "old guard" in many clubs erects to keep USPSA type shooting off their ranges.

We should have 30,000 plus members and more of them need to be under 40, preferably under 30. That would help to insure that our beloved sport will be around for the next generations.

When you look at our numbers and try to get anything accomplished from a legislative point, we show up and say "We represent 15,000 voters nationally" the average polititian will laugh up his sleeve, pay you lip service and then be gone. If we told him we represented 15,000 peopl ein his state or district, now we'd have a number to reckon with.

Sadly, we are an elite group of people and many of our own (Shotgunners, Bullseye, Hipower) all look down =their noses at us. They claim that "You guys are the reason the Anti's hate us. It is your running around with guns that gives shooting a bad name"

We need to overcome that internal bad press if we ever hope to grow to the point we should be and survive into the future.

Jim

[shred]

FWIW, I believe those numbers also cover Life members that may not be shooting anymore.. I don't know if there's a different distribution of classifications amongst them, but I'd figure that the average lifer probably got to at least B, and maybe A or M..

[Crusher]

Class Open Limited Ltd 10 Production Revolver = Total number of shooters in database 15744

GM 123 113 29 27 6

M 480 438 151 111 29

A 708 768 420 303 81

B 1502 2108 1040 717 200

C 1545 3054 2240 1567 462

D 449 1210 1088 791 175

U 10563 7679 10402 11854 14417

These are the most recent numbers (June 07) from USPSA website

As far as:

They claim that "You guys are the reason the Anti's hate us. It is your running around with guns that gives shooting a bad name"

I have had similar discusions with others from the non-action shooting camps ( NRA Bullseye, International, Trap & Skeet, Sporting Clays, even the air gunners) and in the end the MAIN reason for their discomfort with the sport is: THEY DON'T FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH ATTEMPTING TO TRY THIS FOR FEAR OF FAILURE and no one seems to be able to change their mind that they (or anyone else) can safely negotiate and accurately shoot the stages typically found in USPSA/IPSC even with saftey record for USPSA/IPSC.

I still try but very few if any ever come over to play

Edited July 2, 2007 by Crusher

[shred]

I have had similar discusions with others from the non-action shooting camps ( NRA Bullseye, International, Trap & Skeet, Sporting Clays, even the air gunners) and in the end the MAIN reason for their discomfort with the sport is: THEY DON'T FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH ATTEMPTING TO TRY THIS FOR FEAR OF FAILURE and no one seems to be able to change their mind that they (or anyone else) can safely negotiate and accurately shoot the stages typically found in USPSA/IPSC even with saftey record for USPSA/IPSC.

I still try but very few if any ever come over to play

I don't shoot bullseye at the local club either, despite being invited to do so.. "doesn't look like fun for me" works both ways.

The good thing is the local club seems to be slowly recognizing that and putting in facilities to support as many of the sports as they can. That's where we should be.

[Irishlad]

THEY DON'T FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH ATTEMPTING TO TRY THIS FOR FEAR OF FAILURE

As a "confirmed" shotgunner, who enjoys pistol shooting, I'm not sure that would be the main reason for "moving target" shooters. At least not for me and many others that I know. And most, if not all, own handguns.

IMHO, the two sports are as different as football and soccer even though they both use a "ball". Looking for additional pistol shooters in the shotgun "ranks" will be futile, as looking for future shotgun shooters in the pistol ranks. Many shoot both(kinda), but given time, money and desire, you really have to concentrate on one if you wish to compete.

The pistol shooters at my club are, by far, the "safest" gun handlers that I've seen. And, to be honest, pistol shooters need to be because of the "nature" of the sport. Bullets travel much farther than "shot" and it's a "handgun"...it's easier to manipulate wrong or shoot a "projectile" out of the club's property.

And that's happened.

[The Monster]

Thanks for the replies. Our sport is indeed obscure (ESPN8 "The Ocho" comes to mind). There are other sports that started out obscure and became mainstream...surfing, skateboarding, snowboarding...maybe someday ours will too. Some sort of TV coverage or movie would help.

[ranger]

THEY DON'T FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH ATTEMPTING TO TRY THIS FOR FEAR OF FAILURE

As a "confirmed" shotgunner, who enjoys pistol shooting, I'm not sure that would be the main reason for "moving target" shooters. At least not for me and many others that I know. And most, if not all, own handguns.

IMHO, the two sports are as different as football and soccer even though they both use a "ball". Looking for additional pistol shooters in the shotgun "ranks" will be futile, as looking for future shotgun shooters in the pistol ranks. Many shoot both(kinda), but given time, money and desire, you really have to concentrate on one if you wish to compete.

The pistol shooters at my club are, by far, the "safest" gun handlers that I've seen. And, to be honest, pistol shooters need to be because of the "nature" of the sport. Bullets travel much farther than "shot" and it's a "handgun"...it's easier to manipulate wrong or shoot a "projectile" out of the club's property.

And that's happened.

Amen - I cannot tell you how many times I have been swept by shotgunners coming out of a stand or shooting position. It is sadly common for a competitive shotgun shooter to fire his last shot at a clay taergt then step out of the station while breaking open his over/under. Yes, I make corrections but I get blank stares of "what is the big deal".

[GeorgeInNePa]

THEY DON'T FEEL COMFORTABLE WITH ATTEMPTING TO TRY THIS FOR FEAR OF FAILURE

As a "confirmed" shotgunner, who enjoys pistol shooting, I'm not sure that would be the main reason for "moving target" shooters. At least not for me and many others that I know. And most, if not all, own handguns.

IMHO, the two sports are as different as football and soccer even though they both use a "ball". Looking for additional pistol shooters in the shotgun "ranks" will be futile, as looking for future shotgun shooters in the pistol ranks. Many shoot both(kinda), but given time, money and desire, you really have to concentrate on one if you wish to compete.

The pistol shooters at my club are, by far, the "safest" gun handlers that I've seen. And, to be honest, pistol shooters need to be because of the "nature" of the sport. Bullets travel much farther than "shot" and it's a "handgun"...it's easier to manipulate wrong or shoot a "projectile" out of the club's property.

And that's happened.

Amen - I cannot tell you how many times I have been swept by shotgunners coming out of a stand or shooting position. It is sadly common for a competitive shotgun shooter to fire his last shot at a clay taergt then step out of the station while breaking open his over/under. Yes, I make corrections but I get blank stares of "what is the big deal".

Yep, our club used to have shotgun racks inside the club. I got swept countless times. But as you experienced, it was "no big deal". I got the "it's empty, it's ok".

Of course, these same buffoons were pissed if we came down to the clubhouse with a holstered handgun.

[dajarrel]

Thanks for the replies. Our sport is indeed obscure (ESPN8 "The Ocho" comes to mind). There are other sports that started out obscure and became mainstream...surfing, skateboarding, snowboarding...maybe someday ours will too. Some sort of TV coverage or movie would help.

This kinda ties in with what Jim Norman was saying. Notice that the "other sports" that were obscure and became mainstream are primarily young men/womens games. With notable exceptions, especially in the snowboarding members of BE's forums, almost all the up-and-comers are less than thirty. We have got to bring the youth into our game.

I wish I had known about USPSA at a younger age. I may not have been able to afford it, but I sure would have tried it.

FWIW

dj

[smokshwn]

Thanks for the replies. Our sport is indeed obscure (ESPN8 "The Ocho" comes to mind). There are other sports that started out obscure and became mainstream...surfing, skateboarding, snowboarding...maybe someday ours will too. Some sort of TV coverage or movie would help.

This kinda ties in with what Jim Norman was saying. Notice that the "other sports" that were obscure and became mainstream are primarily young men/womens games. With notable exceptions, especially in the snowboarding members of BE's forums, almost all the up-and-comers are less than thirty. We have got to bring the youth into our game.

I wish I had known about USPSA at a younger age. I may not have been able to afford it, but I sure would have tried it.

FWIW

dj

It seems to me one of the ways to get to the youth is through courting females into our sport.

We own the male demographic. However given the number of single parent homes and the absence in many of those homes of a father, it seems that the logical choice is to put some focus into the other 50% of the population. We already see this in many other firearms marketing sectors as again the male demographic is saturated.

[boo radley]

With notable exceptions, especially in the snowboarding members of BE's forums, almost all the up-and-comers are less than thirty. We have got to bring the youth into our game.

I wish I had known about USPSA at a younger age. I may not have been able to afford it, but I sure would have tried it.

FWIW

dj

Not to sound pessmistic, but I don't see that happening. If you were a teen again...would YOU want to hang out in a structured environment, with folks your parents age, very few girls, no drugs, nor music, nor peer recognition....?

Then there are the equipment costs, and reloading issues with attention to detail, and travel/match expenses, again with folks much older than you. Etc.

And the upside to the work required to improve, probably isn't going to resonate well, either. Sadly, I think there's a reason for the demographics we have.

I think the key is heavy recruitment at ranges, public and private. At least at that point, you have a pre-qualified prospect.

[baa]

Can USPSA do more to recruit more shooters? How do you get the gun magazine writers to give USPSA more/better press (as they do for IDPA and SASS?)

How many pistol owners have even heard of USPSA/IPSC? How do we address this? Better USPSA representation at gun shows? Better relationships between the local gun ranges (indoor and outdoor) and the local USPSA clubs? Somehow magically getting the Gun Store Commandos to share our sport in a more favorable light?

I don't have a whole lot of answers to the above questions other than more concerted effort at the local club level to increase membership at a local level. We, the USPSA member base, know what ranges and stores locally are friendly (or at least neutral) to recruiting efforts. We know when the gun shows happen locally. Some of us know the local IDPA crowd and can get cross over shooters to come try a USPSA match. Etc. Any meaningful attempt to increase membership has to be done a local level.

Edited July 5, 2007 by baa

[GentlemanJim]

A movie would be nice...sorta like Rocky... with guns

It would probibly work and inject our sport into mainstream America.

How do you go about borrowing $$$ to make a film???

Jim

[Charles Bond]

Here is the stats from USPSA in mid Apri-

Revolver:

GM 5

Does anyone know who the four less famous are? Post their names. They deserve the glory.

Charles Bond

[Jaxshooter]

Cliff Walsh is one.

[AZ38super]

Here is the stats from USPSA in mid Apri-

Revolver:

GM 5

Does anyone know who the four less famous are? Post their names. They deserve the glory.

Charles Bond

JERRY MICULEK JR.

JOHNNY BRISTER

DAVID PARKER

CLIFF WALSH

NILS JONASSON

RICHARD G. BITOW

[JFD]

USPSA has a bunch of recognition at our club, even if we no longer shoot USPSA here.

Nearly everyone I speak to recognizes they will need a $2500+ gun to shoot USPSA.

USPSA really does nothing to deal with this killer misconception. The latest promotional video on the web site features Open guns more than anything else. I wonder how many prospective members we have out there who have Open guns in their safe? Print ads are the same.

If we are trying to recruit new members, then why do we feature anything besides L-10, SS, Production and Revolver. Limited and Open certainly need no advertising, as a ton of shooters are drawn to these divisions like moths to a flame. Of course they need to become members first, and featuring "advanced cost" divisions is not the way to attract new members IMHO.

Also, if my wife is any indication, women are extemely intimidated at their first few matches and my hat is off to any women who take the plunge. My wife was treated great, but a couple of asshats would have ruined the expereince. My advice for the future of the sport is "don't be an asshat".

There is most certainly an intimidation factor for new shooters. It takes a bit of character to be able to perform in front of a group of folks who shoot many times better than they do.

My thinking is this sport is financed by people who don't shoot major matches and treat it as a fun hobby at a ratio of probably 12:1, and that's being very safe. They just want to know enough of the rules to shoot safely and score accurately, and seem to be happy learning anything else by example. They don't get involved in the sport past the local level, don't bitch about the rules, and basically cause no trouble whatsoever. Right now I think the BOD should recalibrate their thinking when it comes to marketing, and focus on this group of people. Trying to steal/borrow shooters from other sports hasn't been working so well, and folks like us at the Benos forum don't come close to representing the majority of members of our organization. Unfortunately I think the sport is being marketed to us, and we are already members or have no intention of joining.

Just my thoughts.

[Irishlad]

Just a thought!

If you have 15,000 active members, I think you are doing pretty good IMO. "Active" is the key number.

ATA has about 40,000 active members, from their literature I believe, although I've read from other sources 100,000? And ATA is well established, every "jerkwater" town has a trap field nearby.

Skeet and sporting "claim" around 20,000 each. I doubt they are all active, but all these sports have the advantage of people shooting them "once in a while" and are not members. Fields are already "setup" so it's easy to try, pick up new members. Pistol?

Once a month beginners or juniors "class/ shotgun experience" works pretty well if it's consistent, advertised(poster on the board), etc. What's pretty well mean? If you could get 8-10 per month and actually "keep" one or two, I think that would be great. Gains are in inches at the local level.

Biggest "threat" I see the next several years will be the dramatically increased cost to shoot, and maintaining "existing active members". That may be a bigger issue for shotgun, than pistol...we'll see.

[shred]

I believe I'll need a $2000+ shotgun to shoot clays too. That's what all the pictures in the magazines are, right?

Actually, that analogy works great since our current club range is shared with a very active shotgun club-- it's easy to explain to interested parties that while you can shoot trap with a $3000 O/U, you can also shoot trap with a $300 870 pump and IPSC is the same way-- and we also separate the guns so the '870's aren't directly competing with the 'Perazzi's as well.

Increasing ammo and gas costs are starting to put a hurt on new shooters around here.. It's harder to get somebody to buy 4 boxes of white-box and come try it when they have to drop $50 on ammo just to play. Some people in gun stores tell me there's been a lot more interest then usual in .22's lately..