Q's About Steel Challenge

[ipscron2000]

Hey Guys

I have a few questions here I would like to get answered.

1. On Outer Limits; if a shot and/or hit is taken between the two boxes being used, what is the penalty? 3 seconds per shot?

2. If a shot hits the ground and then hits the plate, is that counted as a hit?

3. Is there a DQ distance on an AD? I mean, if a bullet hits 12 feet in front of a competitor, is that a DQ?

4. I know about the 3 second penalty for any missed plates, but what if they can't hit the stop plate? Is that a 3 second penalty also? Also, can a competitor just engage the stop plate from the start signal and take a 12 second penalty, or does each plate HAVE TO be engaged.

These are questions that brought up at our matches. And i'm not real sure on the exact answers. I can't find a SC rule book that describes all of this.

Maybe you can help me.

thanks

Ron johnston

[AlamoShooter]

#2 is not real clear... the fast reply is yes it counts, if you can hit the edge of one plate and the bulet goes and hit the next = it counts.

-IF- the round hits closer than 6 feet from the shooter = you are out with a DQ

If you do not hit the stop plate it is a "Max' time run of 30 seconds.

Now #1 = that could be a DQ or just a 3 sec penalty for each shot, depends on the RO as to the DQ any hits not in the box will not count = so it does not mater if you hit a plate out of the box. you would still have to hit it in the box to count.

Outer limits = make shurr bouth feet are touching down IN the box for the first two targets.

Not the best questions to have about Steel Challenge

[Flexmoney]

We treat any procedure type penalties the same as a miss. It works and is consistent.

The game isn't about shooting the ground. I wouldn't count any round the hit the ground first, then made it's way to the plate. In fact, I'd be looking at the safety violation aspects of that.

We count a missed stop plate as +30 seconds.

Are you affiliating with Steel Challenge or just copying their matches?

[ipscron2000]

Flex

We've paid our money to SC and are on their list of clubs. So yes, i guess we are associated with SC. But we had our state match last year and it didn't seem worth the money to pay $200 or $5 a shooter to be put on a match list. But i could be wrong.

As for my questions, AlamoShooter stated that my questions were not the best to ask about SC. Why not? These are actual problems that occured last week at our match. I'm needing help with the finer do's and don'ts of the game. I would like to find a book or pamphlet that has all of these rules in it. We don't have any shooters who have shot SC in California or elsewhere. So I really have nothing to go on. I would rather not make up my own rule book, but I might have to if I can't get the right answers.

Any help would be appreciated.

Thanks

Ron J

[AlamoShooter]

sorry ...I guess that sounded mean. = Its the (in the dirt) part of your question.

with most targets five feet tall, the round would have to be way off to hit the dirt and go up into the target.

A question that would be more normal mite be - ( on Showdown with the two boxes can the shooter start from the right box first ) = The answer would be yes.

The question on hitting the dirt has ben asked at steel challenge before. but it was about the Speed option stage and the far plate out at 35 yards. If the bullet hits the plate it scores, some of the shots are so fast you cant say what one hit the dirt and what one was stait on hit. I have seen it stop the clock

If you have shooters going with slop shots onto the steel, you will end up with rounds leaving the range over the berms. And that is one thing most any range does not want

strange shots

Last year at the world shoot my buddy had a 1.8 run on Round About. what hapend is his second shot on the front left target hit the edge and went on to hit the stop plate and activate the clock stop. He kept shooting normal and hit #3 # 4 and the stop. But the main clock had stoped. The Ro did not catch on rite a way and Tammy figured it out to give the shooter the corect score for all five shots. Or he could have gotten the 1.8 but with two misses.

Yep I have seen rounds hit the dirt and the target and I have hit two targets with one shot too, But no we do not score them as good. unless the guy is into his second high cap mag to complete the run.

I shot steel for ten years before going to Caifornia my first time,

"Stick with it and stay sharp" Brian wrote that in my book in 1991 I dont loan that copy out any more

Jamie Foote AKA AlamoShooter

[shred]

The 2003 rulebook is still online. There have been a few changes around the side-matches, stages and sponsors, but most of the rest is still valid.

http://www.steelchallenge.com/steelchallenge/2003/rules.htm

SCORING

Your time is your score. [ ... ] Three (3) second procedural penalties will be given for: Creeping, movement or jumping before the start signal, foot faults, shooting at the wrong targets from the designated boxes, and incorrect or non movement.

[ipscron2000]

sorry ...I guess that sounded mean. = Its the (in the dirt) part of your question.

with most targets five feet tall, the round would have to be way off to hit the dirt and go up into the target.

A question that would be more normal mite be - ( on Showdown with the two boxes can the shooter start from the right box first ) = The answer would be yes.

The question on hitting the dirt has ben asked at steel challenge before. but it was about the Speed option stage and the far plate out at 35 yards. If the bullet hits the plate it scores, some of the shots are so fast you cant say what one hit the dirt and what one was stait on hit. I have seen it stop the clock

If you have shooters going with slop shots onto the steel, you will end up with rounds leaving the range over the berms. And that is one thing most any range does not want

strange shots

Last year at the world shoot my buddy had a 1.8 run on Round About. what hapend is his second shot on the front left target hit the edge and went on to hit the stop plate and activate the clock stop. He kept shooting normal and hit #3 # 4 and the stop. But the main clock had stoped. The Ro did not catch on rite a way and Tammy figured it out to give the shooter the corect score for all five shots. Or he could have gotten the 1.8 but with two misses.

Yep I have seen rounds hit the dirt and the target and I have hit two targets with one shot too, But no we do not score them as good. unless the guy is into his second high cap mag to complete the run.

I shot steel for ten years before going to Caifornia my first time,

"Stick with it and stay sharp" Brian wrote that in my book in 1991 I dont loan that copy out any more

Jamie Foote AKA AlamoShooter

Jamie, the reason i said "the guy shot the ground and then the bullet hit the plate" is becasue that particular bay on our range has an uphil grade. The back plates for Outer Limits is 35 yards out. So our back plates are only one foot off of the ground. I know, that doesn't sound right. But the Plates are level to the shooters boxes. Sometimes you have to work with what you have. We hope to level the range sometime this year. As you know, dirt work is VERY expensive.

If i can remember to take a picture of the bay, i will and post it here.

Thanks

Ron J

[shred]

Jamie, the reason i said "the guy shot the ground and then the bullet hit the plate" is becasue that particular bay on our range has an uphil grade. The back plates for Outer Limits is 35 yards out. So our back plates are only one foot off of the ground. I know, that doesn't sound right. But the Plates are level to the shooters boxes. Sometimes you have to work with what you have. We hope to level the range sometime this year. As you know, dirt work is VERY expensive.

If i can remember to take a picture of the bay, i will and post it here.

Thanks

Ron J

FWIW, the back plates on Outer Limits in Piru are also only a few feet off the ground, but I don't remember many bounces into them. They have that lightly-compressed-dust for a range surface.. http://www.shred2.net/~shred/gallery14/alb..._1990.sized.jpg

[AlamoShooter]

Outer limits is hard to have a bay that drains and is not way up hill out at 35 yards. That good that you made post just for that bay. I finaly made some shorter post for our range too that made up for the Up-hill part,

[AzShooter]

[

Now #1 = that could be a DQ or just a 3 sec penalty for each shot, depends on the RO as to the DQ any hits not in the box will not count = so it does not mater if you hit a plate out of the box. you would still have to hit it in the box to count.

Outer limits = make shurr bouth feet are touching down IN the box for the first two targets.

Not the best questions to have about Steel Challenge

Having your finger in the trigger guard while moving is a DQ at the Steel Challenge, so hitting a plate while moving is a definate no.

[DJPoLo]

1. On Outer Limits; if a shot and/or hit is taken between the two boxes being used, what is the penalty? 3 seconds per shot?

That sounds like a foot fault, +3 second penalty.

(Not to be confused with a Foote fault, which AlamoShooter is often guilty of).

-Chet

[B.J. Norris]

FWIW, Steel Challenge uses USPSA movement rules.

[AlamoShooter]

FWIW, Steel Challenge uses USPSA movement rules.

Almost ...as far as safty yes , but in USPSA one foot can be lifted off the ground during the shot - so long as it is not touch out side the box. In SC bouth feet must be touch down in the box for the first two shots/targets.

A few years back one of the Ro's on Flying M asked me to move slower so that he could tell if my feet were still on the gound durring the first two shots I never did find out if he was just messing with me.

[bwhited]

FWIW, Steel Challenge uses USPSA movement rules.

Almost ...as far as safty yes , but in USPSA one foot can be lifted off the ground during the shot - so long as it is not touch out side the box. In SC bouth feet must be touch down in the box for the first two shots/targets.

A few years back one of the Ro's on Flying M asked me to move slower so that he could tell if my feet were still on the gound durring the first two shots I never did find out if he was just messing with me.

Yes, he was puller your leg.

Actually if the bullet hits a plate then another plate it does not count.

Have seen it on Speed Option, hit the option and it also its the stop plate.

I asked Mike Dalton about it and he said that it is ruled as range equipment failure and it is a re-shoot.

#2 is not real clear... the fast reply is yes it counts, if you can hit the edge of one plate and the bulet goes and hit the next = it counts.

-IF- the round hits closer than 6 feet from the shooter = you are out with a DQ

If you do not hit the stop plate it is a "Max' time run of 30 seconds.

Now #1 = that could be a DQ or just a 3 sec penalty for each shot, depends on the RO as to the DQ any hits not in the box will not count = so it does not mater if you hit a plate out of the box. you would still have to hit it in the box to count.

Outer limits = make shurr bouth feet are touching down IN the box for the first two targets.

Not the best questions to have about Steel Challenge

[outerlimits]

FWIW, Steel Challenge uses USPSA movement rules.

Almost ...as far as safty yes , but in USPSA one foot can be lifted off the ground during the shot - so long as it is not touch out side the box. In SC bouth feet must be touch down in the box for the first two shots/targets.

A few years back one of the Ro's on Flying M asked me to move slower so that he could tell if my feet were still on the gound durring the first two shots I never did find out if he was just messing with me.

Yes, he was puller your leg.

Actually if the bullet hits a plate then another plate it does not count.

Have seen it on Speed Option, hit the option and it also its the stop plate.

I asked Mike Dalton about it and he said that it is ruled as range equipment failure and it is a re-shoot.

#2 is not real clear... the fast reply is yes it counts, if you can hit the edge of one plate and the bulet goes and hit the next = it counts.

-IF- the round hits closer than 6 feet from the shooter = you are out with a DQ

If you do not hit the stop plate it is a "Max' time run of 30 seconds.

Now #1 = that could be a DQ or just a 3 sec penalty for each shot, depends on the RO as to the DQ any hits not in the box will not count = so it does not mater if you hit a plate out of the box. you would still have to hit it in the box to count.

Outer limits = make shurr bouth feet are touching down IN the box for the first two targets.

Not the best questions to have about Steel Challenge

saw bill wilson shoot outer limits in 1984-first plate 3 oclock edge hit also hit the 40 yd rectangle...long pause and bill was into the next box. it counted.

[haras]

The 2003 rulebook is still online. There have been a few changes around the side-matches, stages and sponsors, but most of the rest is still valid.

http://www.steelchallenge.com/steelchallenge/2003/rules.htm

This link didn't take me anywhere. I'd like to learn some Steel rules as well. Matter of fact, from the SC web site I couldn't open the affiliated clubs or sponsors pages off the SC home page.

[shred]

Looks like they're dinking with the site. Half the links are to sites on the developer's hard drive..

Try http://www.steelchallenge.com/ARCHIVE/2003/rules.htm

[haras]

Thanks, that helps. Do they have a real rule book? I'm looking to incorperate a stage into our ICORE matches every now and then.

[shred]

Thanks, that helps. Do they have a real rule book? I'm looking to incorperate a stage into our ICORE matches every now and then.

Yes, but you have to sign up for either the match or the SCSA to get one (not sure if individuals can sign up for the SCSA anymore). Maybe they'll send one out to people that are interested as well-- they've sent me a couple this year with match applications since they print the rules in the match booklet. AFAIK, except for the changed/new stages, nothing else in the rules has changed in quite a while.

[Jadepanther]

FWIW, Steel Challenge uses USPSA movement rules.

Almost ...as far as safty yes , but in USPSA one foot can be lifted off the ground during the shot - so long as it is not touch out side the box. In SC bouth feet must be touch down in the box for the first two shots/targets.

A few years back one of the Ro's on Flying M asked me to move slower so that he could tell if my feet were still on the gound durring the first two shots I never did find out if he was just messing with me.

I have been looking for clarification on this very thing, I found no rule book on the official Steel challenge website, until I found the 'secret' link only know by someon hear on the BE forum. The 'new' US National Steel Challenge website for the Floridia match they say USPSA rules on movement and do not stipulate both feet have to be in the box while shots fired before leaving. So whats the deal, are there 2 different Steel Challenge factions happening with slightly different rules or what? From what I have found the movement rule at these two major steel matches are in fact different, someone correct me if I'm wrong. I'm considering going to the US national steel match in florida this year.

SCSA http://www.steelchallenge.com/

http://www.steelchallenge.com/ARCHIVE/2003/rules.htm

MOVEMENT

USPSA rules will apply for shots fired while moving into the second shooting box in WINCHESTER’S Outer Limits and the PRO-EARS by RIDGELINE Flying M 2000. If the contestant fires and leaves Box A and then realizes they missed and/or hit the targets out of sequence and returns to Box A and continues to shoot, there will be no procedural penalty (Keep the muzzle down range while returning to Box A). Any target(s) struck in the incorrect order (A vs. WILL be judged as a miss. If any shots are fired after having begun to move forward out of the box, there WILL be a procedural penalty

US National Steel Championship

http://www.ussteelshoot.com/

http://www.ussteelshoot.com/MatchRules.htm

MATCH RULES

Note: The SCSA uses safety rules as outlined by USPSA. For anything not specifically covered below refer to the current USPSA safety rules.

So according to the website for the US National Steel Champtionship, that says SCSA follows USPSA rules unless stipluated below, and they do not stipulate any difference in movement, then shooting while leaving the box is IN as long as nothing touches the ground on the outside of the box before/while the shot is fired. If I overlooked something, someone please correct me

So are there 2 different movement rules depending on if you go to the original official SCSA in California, or if you go to the 'new' US national Steel match in Florida?

Edited December 4, 2007 by Jadepanther

[warpspeed]

I've never been called on having one foot up & I'm sure I've done it at least one time

[AlamoShooter]

I've never been called on having one foot up & I'm sure I've done it at least one time

The Score keeper is supposed to help with this call. The big time it hurts is a missed shot and you have to step back into the box to make the hit. Both feet down is just from the (First) box.

To be competitive You have to be able to call the shot Before the bullet hits the plate. I have ran a sub 4 with a rim fire in practice - just to boost my confidence level. or not

Edited December 4, 2007 by AlamoShooter

[Jadepanther]

I've never been called on having one foot up & I'm sure I've done it at least one time

The Score keeper is supposed to help with this call. The big time it hurts is a missed shot and you have to step back into the box to make the hit. Both feet down is just from the (First) box.

To be competitive You have to be able to call the shot Before the bullet hits the plate. I have ran a sub 4 with a rim fire in practice - just to boost my confidence level. or not

Now that USPSA has bought out SCSA hopefully they will at least clarify the movement rule, and all SCSA rules soon and clearly and easily make that information available.

I can't find any rule book on the SCSA website, the link someone put for 2003 rules is a dead link. The US steel nationals website it says they use USPSA rules and does not specify any difference in the movement rule. so on paper currenty you can shoot plate #2 with one foot out of the box before it touches the ground as per USPSA rules, someone prove me wrong if I am. People need to know the rules of a sport before they sign up for a major national match.

[Carlos]

.

.

So whats the deal, are there 2 different Steel Challenge factions happening with slightly different rules or what? From what I have found the movement rule at these two major steel matches are in fact different, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

SCSA http://www.steelchallenge.com/

http://www.steelchallenge.com/ARCHIVE/2003/rules.htm

US National Steel Championship

http://www.ussteelshoot.com/

http://www.ussteelshoot.com/MatchRules.htm

So are there 2 different movement rules depending on if you go to the original official SCSA in California, or if you go to the 'new' US national Steel match in Florida?

Why do we need consistent rules? (answer should be obvious to everyone). I'd wager there are at least a half-dozen sets of inconsistent rules for the various "major" steel matches around the USA right now.

-we (USPSA) can't do anything about that sad state of affairs for any steel match save one: the one we now own: Steel Challenge.

Again, I don't care WHAT they do with that 1x per year California carnival big money match; most of us will never shoot it & we don't care what happens to it; most of us don't even magazines legal in that state anymore. I only care about the REST of the USPSA-owned steel challenge because that is where my USPSA money goes and that is what I might shoot someday.

Should there be any rules at all?

If they are not consistent from match to match, can we even call them "rules"??

Edited January 24, 2008 by Carlos

[shred]

.

.

So whats the deal, are there 2 different Steel Challenge factions happening with slightly different rules or what? From what I have found the movement rule at these two major steel matches are in fact different, someone correct me if I'm wrong.

SCSA http://www.steelchallenge.com/

http://www.steelchallenge.com/ARCHIVE/2003/rules.htm

US National Steel Championship

http://www.ussteelshoot.com/

http://www.ussteelshoot.com/MatchRules.htm

So are there 2 different movement rules depending on if you go to the original official SCSA in California, or if you go to the 'new' US national Steel match in Florida?

Why do we need consistent rules? (answer should be obvious to everyone). I'd wager there are at least a half-dozen sets of inconsistent rules for the various "major" steel matches around the USA right now.

If they are not consistent from match to match, can we even call them "rules"??

I don't think the movement rules on OL matter enough to worry about. It's not like you're going to hit 3 plates at 25-35 yards on the move anyway. Where they really mattered was on Flying M, which isn't shot in the "official" SC anymore. It would be nice to be consistent though.