Which Gun Would You Shoot?

[dirtypool40]

Given in this thread; IDPA is a game, a competition, and we are going to keep score. The State match is coming up and a buddy is running it at my local club so I want to shoot the best combo to be within the rules and competitive.

OK, now that we got that out of the way, onto our question. The IDPA State match is a week away and I am torn between two guns; an SV .40 I LOVE and want to shoot and a single stack Springfield .40 I love just a little less. I shoot the high cap gun better, have carried and shot it a lot in the past and would like to shoot it in the match.

I only have a real world leather IWB carry holster for the SV, and a gamier Safariland custom-fit type for the single stack.

Both are ESP / IDPA legal.

It seems like it will be easier to get the single stack to slide lock on the last round. Also the high cap will be 10+1 and the skinny gun only 9+1.

The questions before us are:

How important is that slide lock reload in a big match?

Is there any advantage to 9+1 vs. 10+1?

Lastly, based on all that, which gun would you shoot?

Edited February 22, 2007 by dirtypool40

[Albert]

I want to point out that you stated that you "shoot the high cap gun better". In my interpretation of that statement you should shoot the SV. Now if your a bit concerned about mag/pistol capacity I think you decision may need to rely on course design. If most of the stages are not disrupted by steel and therefore you get paper targets that are scored best 2 on each then the 9+1 Springfield would be more efficient when going to slide lock. If it were me I'd stick with the pistol that you are more confident with and naturally you and your skill will find the best way to shoot each course of fire.

[Fireant]

Eric,

I feel your pain on the decision. I shoot an M&P now (a Glock before) that I tend to ride the slide release lever. So I never get a slide lock reload. I battled your same question for a while. I finaly decided to just go into the match knowing I would not go to slide lock. If you count right you can still drop the empty mag and rack the slide without losing much. I also practiced my reloads with retention and can do them pretty quick. There was a stage in the FL/GA border disorder that required a standing reload of some type, most shooters went to SL then reloaded. I did a reload with retention (or what ever they call it) and was second overall on the stage. So, my suggestion is to shoot the one you like best, and practice the reloads you will do the most of. I don't even practice a slide lock reload now, I look for places to do some other approved reload.

[dirtypool40]

I really like the SV, it was my "one gun" in S. America, but I think it will be hard to get loking back consistenly, and the only holster I have is maybe .25 slower than the one for the skinny gun.

Also, I have heard shooting an S_I in an IDPA major is like wearing a sign that sayd "PLEASE PENALIZE ME" and I don't want that.

I guess I am leaning away from my beloved SV....

more advice??

[kdmoore]

I really like the SV, it was my "one gun" in S. America, but I think it will be hard to get loking back consistenly, and the only holster I have is maybe .25 slower than the one for the skinny gun.

Also, I have heard shooting an S_I in an IDPA major is like wearing a sign that sayd "PLEASE PENALIZE ME" and I don't want that.

I guess I am leaning away from my beloved SV....

more advice??

You've likely seen the COF by now?

You are going to have roughly the same number of draws as you are reloads? How much does a RWR cost you? How much does "slingshoting" the slide on an empty gun? How many manditory SL reloads are there (should be called an empty gun reload, you aren't breaking the COF if your gun is empty but doesn't lock back ... IMO)

The SV doesn't get you on a list, they have a secret list of all the "multi sport" shooters .... J/K!!!! I'd like to think that wouldn't make a big difference, but as SO's are human and some calls come down to a judgement, it might? You'll never know, but you might suspect it came into play?

I don't think someone of your talents needs to stick with the gun you shoot best. As you well know, there's a lot more to the scoring than just the shooting (draw, movement, reloads, etc). I think you have to blend them together.

Pretend there's an el-prez.

SVI

draw = A+.25

reload w slingshot = B+x

Shooting speed = C

Skinny

draw = A

SL reload = B

Shooting speed = C+y

Of course, the stage won't be so vanilla, will allow rwr/tr, so the question becomes more obtuse.

If you don't know the COF (and maybe even if you do), I'd keep this in mind. SL reloads are likely going to save a significant portion of time. Some consider the 9+1 the ultimate capacity anyways. Not likely to cost any extra reloads, lots of reloads are at a better spot. There might be one stage (say a long steel), where a miss becomes expensive if it does cost you a reload (so don't miss )

If the reliability of both is equal, I'd likely shoot the SS.

[Jim Watson]

The slide lock reload is a big part of an IDPA stage of any length.

But if you are faster and more accurate with the SV AND can keep track so you don't run dry and snap on an empty chamber before reloading and racking a fresh round in, shoot the SV.

But if you are accustomed to speed loads and need the slide lock to remind you of IDPA practice, shoot the SA.

The 9+1 is not a terrible disadvantage, but if it is an advantage as some say, then the MD is showing a lack of imagination and a double tap hangup. A few Poppers, some failure drills, and some best 3 stages will eliminate the bookkeeping convenience of double tap, double tap, double tap, double tap, double tap, RELOAD that some cite as a virtue of a lack of reliable 10-round single stack Box magazines.

[midvalleyshooter]

I'd go with the gun that slide locks. If anything goes wrong; jams, steel that just won't go down, etc, that messes up your round count you could be stuck with an empty gun with no bullets in it Many times the fastest way thru a stage is to just blast thru it reloading at slide lock.

My 2 cents,

But YMMV

Keith

[dirtypool40]

you guys are convincing me to go with the Springfield (SA).

I have not seen and don't have any info on the COF.

I know my draws will be quicker with the SA because of the holster.

I will be a little (not significantly) faster and more comfy with the SV because I shoot 99% that grip and the skinny gun just feels a little different.

I won't have that sexy .15 timing most top IDPA guys develope with load and gun they are intimate with, because I just don't shoot minor except once in a great while at IDPA. I'm hoping to counter that by shooting good points , we'll see how well that works.

[Fireant]

I still say go with the SV. I used to think a slide lock reload was the way to go, then I ran some drills both ways with a timer and now I avoid a slide lock reload.

[MichiganShootist]

You may have 8 - 10 draws in the match so that's much less important than.... how you shoot after the draw.

I'd vote for using the gun you shoot best-----Hell buy a holster for it and have the best of both worlds

[zhunter]

You may have 8 - 10 draws in the match so that's much less important than.... how you shoot after the draw.

I'd vote for using the gun you shoot best-----Hell buy a holster for it and have the best of both worlds

Sounds like an "excuse" to get a new one!!!

[Fireant]

Eric,

Don't you have a blade-tec DOH for that SV? Just take the DOH piece off and make it a belt slide.

[ihatepickles]

Are your mag followers modified or the slide stop? You could order a few parts and make the SV slidelock.

[HSMITH]

Toss a functioning slide stop in the gun and some stock STI followers, BAM, now you have both the gun you shoot best and the slide lock.

[dirtypool40]

Eric,

Don't you have a blade-tec DOH for that SV? Just take the DOH piece off and make it a belt slide.

One at a time...

Fireant:

I do have the DOH and love it, but I don't have the belt hanger.

Pickles:

Mag followers are not modified, but they are Grams not stock STI's / SV's. I don't know if they will work.

HSMITH:

That was kind of the plan I was thinking about, but I need to be sure and time is short and money is tight. I have springs, followers and slide stops to play with. Buying a new holster is probably not gonna happen.

[ihatepickles]

Pickles:

Mag followers are not modified, but they are Grams not stock STI's / SV's. I don't know if they will work.

HSMITH:

That was kind of the plan I was thinking about, but I need to be sure and time is short and money is tight. I have springs, followers and slide stops to play with. Buying a new holster is probably not gonna happen.

HSMITH and my plan are the same. Since the followers aren't modified, you can put in a unmodified spare slide stop and the gun will slidelock on the last round. The only gunsmithing thing to double check is that the replacement slide stop doesn't contact your ammo and cause feed malfunctions.

Brazos has an article on this.

[CDRODA396]

Pickles:

Mag followers are not modified, but they are Grams not stock STI's / SV's. I don't know if they will work.

HSMITH:

That was kind of the plan I was thinking about, but I need to be sure and time is short and money is tight. I have springs, followers and slide stops to play with. Buying a new holster is probably not gonna happen.

HSMITH and my plan are the same. Since the followers aren't modified, you can put in a unmodified spare slide stop and the gun will slidelock on the last round. The only gunsmithing thing to double check is that the replacement slide stop doesn't contact your ammo and cause feed malfunctions.

Brazos has an article on this.

I have an Edge, and use Grams followers. For no other reason than after 20+ years in the military, I like my slides to lock back...so I had to go to the Brazos article, study it, take my dremel and magazines to the range, shoot, dremel, shoot, dremel. At first, the slide would lock back with one round left, as has been discussed in many threads on here, but eventually got to the point all my magazines lock back, and are completely reliable. At one point, I felt I was screwing up and taking off way more material than I thought it should take, but kept going figuring I was only working on one mag, but eventually got to the point where they work just like the article says.

I would use my SVI, do up three mags, if I recall, IDPA will only let you carry one in the gun, two on the belt, and shoot it with my favorite blaster, all others be damned!

[Joe D]

Well you could just use 10 round .40 single stack mags. That gives you 10+1. I always want to start a stage with as many rounds as I can get in my gun - 10+1. I hate to say this in public, BUT you can always dump a round. There I have said it.

Besides those two guns are "gamer guns" not real manly guns like a .45ACP downloaded to a 130 PF.

Edited February 22, 2007 by Joe D

[PaulW]

Eric, Eric Eric.....you could shot a squirt gun and still be competitive, unless it was windy out.

Did you not just win a Single Stack match no so long ago?

Nuff said......<sound of PaulW banging head into wall>

[zhunter]

Did you not just win a Single Stack match no so long ago?

Nuff said......<sound of PaulW banging head into wall>

GREAT POINT!!!!

[Matt Cheely]

Did you not just win a Single Stack match no so long ago?

Nuff said......<sound of PaulW banging head into wall>

GREAT POINT!!!!

It's not that you win. It's how far back 2nd place was.

Edited February 22, 2007 by Matt Cheely

[Merlin Orr]

Pickles:

Mag followers are not modified, but they are Grams not stock STI's / SV's. I don't know if they will work.

HSMITH:

That was kind of the plan I was thinking about, but I need to be sure and time is short and money is tight. I have springs, followers and slide stops to play with. Buying a new holster is probably not gonna happen.

HSMITH and my plan are the same. Since the followers aren't modified, you can put in a unmodified spare slide stop and the gun will slidelock on the last round. The only gunsmithing thing to double check is that the replacement slide stop doesn't contact your ammo and cause feed malfunctions.

Brazos has an article on this.

There ya are....

[Duane Thomas]

How important is that slide lock reload in a big match?

Extremely. Of the IDPA legal reloads, it's by far the fastest. Also, I found when I won the Washington state CDP championship in 2002, I believe one big reason I won is that I made a conscious decision before the match I was going to do only slidelock reloads. Having only one reload in the bag of tricks to worry about immensely streamlined my game plan. Simplicity is good for the mental game.

Is there any advantage to 9+1 vs. 10+1?

Some people will say yes, but actually I don't think so. I shot the 2005 Idaho state match with 7-round mags in CDP. On two stages I thought I actually had an advantage starting with an even number of rounds in the gun. On two more I would have been better off with an odd number. And on everthing else it didn't matter. Basically, it was a wash. (Came in 2nd place in that match, BTW. Damn it.)

Lastly, based on all that, which gun would you shoot?

Probably the SV. You like it better, you shoot it better. I wouldn't let the type of holster you have be an overriding concern, BTW. There are plenty of us carrying every day in "gamey" Blade-Tech straight drop SBHs, for that matter.

[revchuck]

DP - If you've got one of those Safariland "custom fit" (560/561) holsters, you ought to be able to adjust it to fit the S_I. Just a thought...

[HSMITH]

Take one of your oldest crappiest mags and pinch the WHOLE front closed just a tad, it will still function 100% if it did before but it won't drop free. Pinch a hair, try it in the gun, pinch a hair more if it needs it and try it. It will be REALLY handy for a guy like you in an IDPA match if there is a reload with retention specified. If you don't that mag will hit the ground before you can even THINK 'oh sh!t'.