roc1 Posted January 22, 2007 Share Posted January 22, 2007 I know that the 650 is a lot faster than the SDB but my question is overall is it as smooth operating?My SDB is smooth indexing and overall performance.Is the casefeeder totally reliable or does it give a fair amount of problems?Just wanted honest unbiased answers as speed is really not a problem as I can load 300 rounds in 1/2 hour on the SDB machine.I would consider the upgrade if the 650 was as smooth and trouble free as the SDB. Thanks for all the input in anvance roc1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 Hello: I have the Square Deal just like you. I tried a friends 550,650 and 1050 presses he has. The Square deal seats the primers easier than the 650 and 550. The case feeder was nice on the 650 and 1050. For the money I would take the Square deal or even two. It all depends on how much time you have to reload. I enjoy reloading so speed is not a factor for me. Saying that my next press will be the 1050 just to load one caliber. I think I will keep the square deal for the 45 I load. Thanks Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roc1 Posted January 23, 2007 Author Share Posted January 23, 2007 Thanks Eric I guess what I am trying to say is for pistol calibers the Sqare Deal works as good as any press I have used.I owned the original 450B and now have the Hornady Ap press with casefeeder.Both machines work fine but to me the extra problems casefeeders and the like have,the SDB works fine without any stoppages.I think overall the speed is right up there considering these factors.I also noticed on the larger machines the shellplate is a lot more jerkier than on the SDB.It is so simple and smooth operating.I was just wondering about the newer larger presses if they offer any advantage other than more speed?i still reload rifle on my Hornady single stage and always will.I do not load enough rifle to mess with the trouble of press setup. Thanks again roc1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
haze10 Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 Doesn't the SD take special, ie only Dillon made, dies? Are there any 3rd party dies that fit from other manufactuers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 Doesn't the SD take special, ie only Dillon made, dies? Are there any 3rd party dies that fit from other manufactuers. Dillon made only...but then all you need is Dillon. They get er done.... SDBs rock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 Hello: This from a man who has two 1050 presses eh Merlin! I have not had any problems at all with my SDB once I cleaned the primer feed ramp area. I have loaded over 5000 rounds of 40 and 45. The press was used when I got it and it still works great. I don't have a problem with the Dillon only dies since they work so well and the Dillon no hassle warranty. I think the square deal gets a bum wrap since it is small. I will keep mine for a long time. Square deal owners forever I say! Thanks Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobocracy Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 I owned a SDB as my first press. Bought it in .45 ACP and a conversion setup for 10mm on the same day. I eventually added .44 Mag and .44 Spl setups (yes, same dies, but I wanted to switch without a lot of work). Great press. I ended up buying a 650 to load some calibers the SDB can't do and to get extra speed. I'm very saitsfied with the 650 relative to the SDB. No regrets at all. I sold my SDB and all my conversion setups on Ebay for about 70% of new, too, at "buy it now" prices. My Dillon dealer was pretty amazed it sold for so much money. I will say this, though: 1) I think the SDB priming setup is a lot better. Unused primers stay at station 2, and primers go from the magazine to station 2 right away. I never switched primer sizes on the SDB so I don't know how much work it is, but I'd wager its no more and probably less than the parts switched on on the 650. 2) I thought fine die adjustments were easier on the SDB due to the die bodies not moving/loosening when the lock nuts were released (they seem to be held by the delrin on the toolhead). On the 650 it requires a bit more attention/patience and occasionally a second wrench. 3) The Dillon-only die limitation on the SDB isn't all that bad when you consider than the 650 is in some ways limited by the caliber conversions available for it necessary to make the casefeed operate. Other than that, the 650 is a great machine although it is more complex than the SDB. My case feeder has worked great with everything from .44 Magnum down to .32 ACP (somehing unavailable on the SDB). I hope to eventually "wildcat" a setup for using the casefeed with .50 AE (a conversion not officially supported by apparently possible). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boo radley Posted January 23, 2007 Share Posted January 23, 2007 Just as Mobocracy did, I started with an SDB, then sold it on eBay and bought the full-blown 650 outfit from Brian, almost exactly a year ago. The thing with the 650: once it's adjusted and set-up properly, cranking out 1000 rounds simply isn't a big deal. With the SDB, it was a chore, period. I have had zero issues with the casefeeder, save for not being vigilant about screening the brass for the odd .22lr or 9mm case. I'm not that careful, and it does bring things to a halt for a few minutes. I would agree completely with Mobocracy, and also add that it's no fun changing calibers. I have a second tool head, but it still always take some fiddling and more time than I'd like to get the system running smoothly again. In retrospect, I wish I'd kept the SDB just for .45acp, but only because I don't shoot that much of it, because otherwise, believe me, the 650 is a huge upgrade over the SDB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benos Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 Just as Mobocracy did, I started with an SDB, then sold it on eBay and bought the full-blown 650 outfit from Brian, almost exactly a year ago.The thing with the 650: once it's adjusted and set-up properly, cranking out 1000 rounds simply isn't a big deal. With the SDB, it was a chore, period. I have had zero issues with the casefeeder, save for not being vigilant about screening the brass for the odd .22lr or 9mm case. I'm not that careful, and it does bring things to a halt for a few minutes. I would agree completely with Mobocracy, and also add that it's no fun changing calibers. I have a second tool head, but it still always take some fiddling and more time than I'd like to get the system running smoothly again. In retrospect, I wish I'd kept the SDB just for .45acp, but only because I don't shoot that much of it, because otherwise, believe me, the 650 is a huge upgrade over the SDB. That makes a whole lotta sense - thanks for posting it. be Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sturmruger Posted January 25, 2007 Share Posted January 25, 2007 I want a 650 so damn bad! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abs Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 I want a 650 so damn bad! I just upgraded from a XL650 to a Super 1050 (Thanks Brian!) and kept the 650 for that reason. Abs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisjohn Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 I want a 650 so damn bad! I'm so far into my SDB, don't think I could afford to get out. Started out with .45, then bought .38/.357, then 9x19 and now finally .40 which I haven't set up yet. Everything works great and the learning curve was no problem. Left primers in it one time and had to replace the plastic piece at the end of the internal primer magazine and the platic rod that pushes the primer forward, not bad for 20K rounds. Been thinking about a 650, mainly for easier primer seating, but it sounds like that isn't tje case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kimel Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 My SDB is well over 20K rounds now and still going strong. I leave it set up for .40 and have a 550B for everything else. I did tear it completely down last summer and give it a good clean and lube and swapped out some of the more worn plastic parts. Runs even better when clean! I had a spare powder measure for the SDB but bought the part from Brian to convert it for use with my 550B instead. If they ever made a "C" model of the SD with a case feeder I would buy one in a second. But, alas, I suspect that press is too dang small to make a case feeder work reliably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 In my experience it is much easier to seat primers on a 650. I always had a few high primers on my SDBs, but none with the 650. The 650 takes less effort to operate than the SDB and not having to screw around with brass is really nice. I was starting to have wear and tear issues with my elbow from reloading, but the 650 saved my elbow (the case lube trick didn't hurt either). My first session with the 650 was slow and careful while I got used to it. I loaded 600 rounds in the first hour. The biggest problem with the 650 is having enough filled primer tubes. I've got 15 for both sizes and they still don't seem to last very long. I don't think a caliber change on a 650 is any big deal. Of course I tend to enjoy that kind of thing. I really loved my SDBs, but I'm dreading having to load some of my rarely used calibers on my remaining SDB. I don't load enough of them to warrant setting up the 650 for them. Definitely make the switch. The SDB is head and shoulders above most any other brand available, but the 650 is better than the SDB by the same amount. Definitely buy from Brian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toowide Posted January 26, 2007 Share Posted January 26, 2007 I agree with JFD on the primer seating. The 650 is easier that the SDB. I too still love my sdb having loaded around 15K rounds thru it. But i just got my 650 set up this week. last night i loaded 290 plus rounds before i knew what had happened. Love that casefeeder. Whatever you do, be sure and order thru Brian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rico567 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 I've checked out a friend's SDB that he bought used. In many ways, it seems comparable to the Lee Pro1000s I used to own....but I'm not going down THAT road. I sold my Pro1000s and bought a 650 about 4 years ago. The 650 is a great press, period. On the other hand, for what it and its associated equipment costs, it ought to be a great press. My biggest problem with the 650 is that it's overkill- for me. I don't really shoot enough to justify the rather complex caliber changes. If I was shooting a couple of thousand rounds a month, the 650 would be a good fit. I addressed this issue (at more expense) by getting a whole second primer feed assembly for the other size primer, and a second powder measure with the large bar. I dealt with the frequent caliber changes by getting more cases in all the calibers I load for, so I can go longer between changes. So- my problems are solved, but if I had it to do all over again, I might consider buying 4 SDBs for what I've got tied up in my 650 and all its accessories, and do NO caliber changes, just mount another machine & go. The only thing is- that would leave me loading rifle on my old Rock Chucker. "Not that there's anything wrong with that," but once You've loaded bags of .223 on a 650 very quickly, it's hard to go back to single stage. There are also incidental advantages to the 5th station on the 650 that I assume you're aware of. I run an RCBS Lockout Die in Station 3 in some configurations, for instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 I started with a 650, and really want a 1050!!! With a KISS bullet feeder of course Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyloks Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 i agree with rico. i now have 4 SQB and leave them setup. they work great for all the ammo i reload. no changing die or long setups just move to another press jb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DEP44 Posted February 10, 2007 Share Posted February 10, 2007 I find the operating handle (esp. with roller handle) way more ergonomic on the 550/650. If I had to rate the advantages of the 650 over the SDB, position of the handle and leverage would come before increased speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roc1 Posted February 11, 2007 Author Share Posted February 11, 2007 I find the operating handle (esp. with roller handle) way more ergonomic on the 550/650.If I had to rate the advantages of the 650 over the SDB, position of the handle and leverage would come before increased speed. I made a new shovel handle for my SDB it works great. roc1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irishlad Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 A good handle for the SDB would be similiar to the MEC, a longer more cylinder shape. With a center handle, I use two hands to complete the down and upstroke. Seems natural to me, but that could be simply due to habit of loading many shotshells with a center handle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mobocracy Posted February 12, 2007 Share Posted February 12, 2007 My biggest problem with the 650 is that it's overkill- for me. I don't really shoot enough to justify the rather complex caliber changes. If I was shooting a couple of thousand rounds a month, the 650 would be a good fit. I addressed this issue (at more expense) by getting a whole second primer feed assembly for the other size primer, and a second powder measure with the large bar. I dealt with the frequent caliber changes by getting more cases in all the calibers I load for, so I can go longer between changes. I look at the 650 as a time saver -- if I dedicate two evenings, I can knock out 2000 rounds pretty easily and then I don't have to load that caliber again for maybe 6 months (I like to shoot about 7 different calibers). The SDB would make this quantity a 4 nite process, and then there's powder throw checking, etc which might make it 5 nites. The 650 overkill for my volume, but I like to make a good supply of ammo at once so I'm not doing it again two weeks later. Then the changovers would be a big timesink. The downside to owning a bunch of SDBs is storage. Keeping bullets, cases, primers, powders the press, the tumbler, the media seperator BY ITSELF is a hassle. Presses are not tidy little items to store (disassembly? See toolhead changes...) and I mostly contain my reloading to a 10 x 20 area I have to store other crap in, too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 I know that the 650 is a lot faster than the SDB but my question is overall is it as smooth operating?My SDB is smooth indexing and overall performance.Is the casefeeder totally reliable or does it give a fair amount of problems?Just wanted honest unbiased answers as speed is really not a problem as I can load 300 rounds in 1/2 hour on the SDB machine.I would consider the upgrade if the 650 was as smooth and trouble free as the SDB.Thanks for all the input in anvance roc1 I started with the SDB and went with the 650 when I got it in a multi-gun deal. The 650 is smooth and indexes great. The case feeder works well. Mine works even better with a little weight in it, so I keep a good supply of brass in it. It's a lot more machine, so you'd need some time to get to know it. then you will rock and roll with it. You'll load twice as many rounds in the same amount of time...and it won't feel like you did as much work to do so. I could get by pretty good with the SDB, but I'm real happy to have the 650 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Do you get the idea that ...as in the song. Any loading is good loading...So I took what I could get...yea, I took what I could get.. You ain't seen nothing yet.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abs Posted February 14, 2007 Share Posted February 14, 2007 Do you get the idea that ...as in the song.Any loading is good loading...So I took what I could get...yea, I took what I could get.. You ain't seen nothing yet.. Excellent, Merlin, I can't for the life of me remember who sang that, probably because I was in college during that period! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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