Hammer Following

[Rising Sight]

I have had this pistol back to the factory twice already and it continues to have the same problem. The pistol has only had this problem when I am practicing Bill Drills. The smith at S_I told me that there is a "sweet spot" that you can hit while doing fast splits that will cause a hammer follow. Have any of you ever experienced this?

[DMH]

Never heard of a "sweet spot" before. Sounds like it needs to checked out by somebody else. The test from the old days was dropping the slide on a dummy round, and then dropping the slide on an empty chamber with the trigger held back. Usually if it passes those tests it was ok. I'd be curious to know what yours does.

[Rising Sight]

I just tried the slide dropping test and it passed.

[Caspian_45]

I have had experiance with this problem. Check your grip to see if it is cracked. Try a different grip on the frame and see if the problem still exisits. Also check to make sure your grip bushings are tight. They may work loose after a while and cause this problem as well. Check to see if you have enough pre-travel in the trigger.

[SmittyFL]

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...4&hl=hammer

All I can say is good luck. Check the above post.

Everybody will tell you just to get a trigger job from a competent gunsmith. Try that first because it's the easiest fix if a bad trigger job is your problem. But don't just keep sending it from one to the other hoping it will just start working one day. I spent two years screwing with it before just throwing the gun over the berm and buying a new one.

If the easy fixes don't fix it you have to look for something fundamentally wrong with the gun. People who aren't one of "us" (the followers) don't understand.

I feel your pain. Peace be with you.

Edited October 23, 2006 by SmittyFL

[Larry White]

The thread refernced by Smitty ran 200+ post, Fomeister finaly took the advice given several times and sent the pistol to Benny Hill. In less than a week the pistol was back in his hands and as far as I know is still running after thousands and thousands of rounds. Your answer is Benny Hill, 361-241-1091. Far cheaper in the long run and a hell of a lot less trouble, or you could just keep makeing UPS rich.------Larry

[gans]

The smith at S_I is correct. Since the trigger floats, you have takeup in it to keep it away from the sear when the slide slams forward. If you are snapping the trigger and releasing it partially before the slide finishes cycling, you will not have enough of takeup and the hammer can follow.

[Crusher]

I can make just about any 1911/2011 drop to the half-cock notch by floating the trigger, IF the overtavel is set to a minimal clearance and the triggers are under 2.5 #. On my guns I have about .030" overtavel (adjusting the overtravel screw) and it solved my problem of the "float".

Heck, if you can see em shoot em, it ain't my fault the gun cycles so slowly in HOSE mode.

[Josh Biondi]

Overtravel screw and the middle sear spring leaf. I'll check it.

[Dave Sample]

I would put a little more tension on the LEFT leaf of the sear spring. This will not increase the pull, but will put a little more pressure on the hammer hook/sear engagement. Over travel trigger screws should always be done with Red Lock-Tite once they are adjusted as they tend to move if you don't do this.

[Interceptor]

This is why I switched to steel frames (Springfield Hi-cap) after dealing with this problem on my STI for about a year. I could induce hammer follow by choking up on the gun and tightening my grip, like I would do in a match. Tighten grip, double and triple, loosen grip, normal function. I switched to a steel frame and have had none of the problems of follow.

Probably anecdotal, but it's my .02.

[Josh Biondi]

I would put a little more tension on the LEFT leaf of the sear spring. This will not increase the pull, but will put a little more pressure on the hammer hook/sear engagement. Over travel trigger screws should always be done with Red Lock-Tite once they are adjusted as they tend to move if you don't do this.

Not exact Dave! the left leaf of sear spring will increase the pull weight. Precisely putting more pression on this leaf bending in forth will increase the second par time of the trigger back movement. You can check it looking at the spring directly (gun without beavertail) and feeling the different weight on the trigger.

Just to be right.

D.V.C.

[Paul B]

This can be a maddening problem and I have had the same thing happen. After about 7000 rounds it would double till I increased the pull weight (with the sear spring) to about 4.5 lbs. It would do it sometimes and others not. It usually only happened in matches and not in practice for me. The gun also passed the empty chamber drop test. I was told it was the way I was riding the trigger also but that turnned out to be dead wrong as none of my other guns did it with sub 2 lb triggers.

I just started over. I ordered a new matched high quality sear and hammer set and sear spring from Brownells and retuned. This can be pretty involved as both left arms of the spring can effect the weight of pull. After a lot of tuning I actually had both arms bent about the same and the trigger at slightly under 2 lbs. It has stayed that way with no follow since. I think it was just the fit of the original hammer and sear. There really should be no way your finger on the trigger can cause the hammer to follow. Oh by the way be sure the middle finger of the sear spring actually touches and pushes the disconnector up (but also round and polish the tip of this arm - don't change the length).

If that does not work someone gave this advice earlier it may be time for a new frame. I had to give up on a gun that I loved once for another functioning problem. Took me 3 years, 2 gunsmiths, untold parts and 2 nationals to realize the gun was never going to do anything but poop on me. Should have taken 2 weeks to make the decision instead of 3 years.

[XRe]

the left leaf of sear spring will increase the pull weight.

I don't know anything about sear movement par times... but this matches my experiences, expectations, and the simple physics of it... Increasing tension on the left leg puts more pressure on the bottom of the sear, causing increased sliding friction between the sear nose and hammer hooks (or something like that...).

Trigger jobs on 1911s can *seem* simple - but they're really not, when you start talking about sub 3# arrangements... I leave mine to my gunsmith, and trust what he tells me about the workings of them, and how to maintain them. I leave the parts twiddling to him, minus occasional adjustment of the sear spring to keep it w/in his specs....

[MikeFoley]

My gun that Benny put the "speed bump" in ran fine for me for over a year, and I sold it after going to a short dustcover gun this summer. I have had a good run with the new gun until about a month ago when I had a hammer at half notch on a close target. It was only once, and I have not repeated it. If it starts happening again, I will without a doubt let Benny put more engagement surface on my hammer and sear, and smooth up anything else to make the gun run better. Know that this may not be a fix for everyone, but worth a try given it worked for me for over year, and I could get follow on every stage before that.

[Dave Sample]

I have to bow to the superior Knowedge here. I agree that if you have a very poor sear/hammer hook engagement, the left leg could possibly increase trigger pull. I have only done a few hundred of these so I will refrain from any further comments.

[XRe]

I agree that if you have a very poor sear/hammer hook engagement, the left leg could possibly increase trigger pull. I have only done a few hundred of these so I will refrain from any further comments.

Yeah, I guess that ultra-crisp, sub 2# trigger that I've got that can go from 1.5# to 3.5# depending on how much left leg pressure is put on it has really poor sear/hammer hook engagement, even though its never followed, and passes all the "tests"....

[bountyhunter]

Never afraid to state the obvious.....

The total trigger pull weight at the finger tip is made up of three main components (neglecting friction):

1) Moving the trigger back against the leaf of the spring resting against it (actually, the leaf rests on the disconnector which pushes on the trigger).

2) Moving the sear which is pushing against the leaf of the spring resting against it.

3) hammer-sear "drag force" as the sear nose moves across the hammer hook which involves both interfacing friction and some deflection of the hammer rearward against the mainspring.

If it is a four leaf spring, there are two separate leafs resting against the trigger and disconnector... but the effect is the same.

Obviously, increasing or reducing any of the leaf tensions will change the trigger pull weight.

[hitman]

Sounds about right.

Sometimes this is an easy fix others its madining.