carinab Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 (edited) My husband went to work this morning only to find out that he is officially unemployed. Today will be his last day as his company is closing the doors. They gave no one even the slightest warning. He work(ed) for a telecom startup that seemed to be making good progress over the last five years in the wreckage that was the telecomm/dot bomb. They even had a buy out offer from another company around year three. The CEO convinced the board to pass on it. Of course that company probably doesn't see any value in making another offer now because of the changes that have been implemented in the last two years. I don't even know if the CEO approched them in an effort to save the firm. I'm not about to make the charge that the CEO intentionally wanted the company to fail but I don't think he fully grasped how much of an impact his decisions had on his employees many of whom have young families. Thankfully we have a small nest egg for just such emergencies and our only outstanding debt is our mortgage and monthly expenses. Some of my husband's co-workers are not as fortunate including one lady whose home is filled with 7 of her Katrina survivor relatives who are still trying to rebuild their lives. I hope that he can find employment sooner rather than later as the opportunities in his field are pretty slim. Maybe we can move to India and work for one of the outsourcing firms...Or maybe we can move to China where this company opened an office last year in order to cut engineering development costs (/sarcasm mode off). I almost think this is some sort of cosmic justice for that particular company endeavor. In the meantime, look to the classified forum soon as I'll be selling some things out of the safe. Yippee, just in time for Nationals! Edited August 31, 2006 by carinab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ipscbob Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 Welcome to the NEW High Tech corporate america Went through this twice myself in the last 6 years and it was quite ugly both times. Wish I could say that it was easy finding a new job but it took 9+ months both times. This is right in line with what the research firms show for senior level engineers. Hang in there....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 Holy crap Carina! I'm so sorry! I worked for a great company way back when and the drunks running it ran it into the ground too. Whenever the upper crust starts having secret meetings. It's a clear sign to get nervous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 Carina, PM sent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 Sorry to hear this Carina. If you have to sell guns (what a horrible thought!) I'll buy one but only if you promise to buy it back when your finances get back to normal. Dale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgary Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 If you have to sell guns (what a horrible thought!) I'll buy one but only if you promise to buy it back when your finances get back to normal +1 Bruce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carinab Posted August 31, 2006 Author Share Posted August 31, 2006 (edited) Wow, thanks guys for the offer! I hope it won't get to the point where I have to sell guns. For now I'm looking at the spare bits in the safe which I really should be selling anyway. I was saving them up for a project but given the current situation, I'd prefer the $$. Tonite we're going to go through and assess exactly what shape we're in and how long we can hit the savings and unemployment benifits until he finds another job. I'm sure somewhere in the plan will be a timeline on when things will need to go to the auction block. Ugh. My hubby still wants me to go to Barry. I offered to back out but he insisted I go. I've already got some non refundable expenses and am splitting costs with another lady for the drive/lodgings. If I pack my lunches, etc., it won't be that much bigger a bite than not going at all. Heaven knows I could use the five days of distraction! BTW, he just called and said that their final paycheck won't be including their "paid time off" accrued (i.e. vacation, sick days, etc). They're telling him that a bancruptcy court will decide about it as it's an outstanding liability and not a payroll item. They also offered to let him buy his work laptop with some of the PTO owed. Hmmm. Given the choice of possibly never seeing dime one of your PTO and having a physical item in hand, I think we're taking the laptop. Edited August 31, 2006 by carinab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 The laptop and anything else that is not screwed down too tightly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 The laptop and anything else that is not screwed down too tightly... Exactly. Rule #1 of Business: Get Paid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgary Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 ...and might I suggest a Rule #2? Be the squeeky wheel. -- go to small claims court and get a judgment for the cash value of the PTO -- go to your state's labor board, and file a formal complaint against them -- file a "lien" against their real-estate for the amount of the PTO owed -- if possible, get a "mechanic's lien" against the business's assets -- etc. Many ways to help them decide it is easier/cheaper to just pay what they owe, than to have all kinds of spurious things blocking their efforts to liquidate and move on. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 (edited) All I know is that holding equipment as collateral for payment is a well-established technique in American business. It happens ALL THE TIME. If people aren't gettting their PTO, it's because there is no money left, period. The facilities are usually leased. Large capital equipment is leased. About the only source of funds after all is said and done is the sale of office furniture and fixtures and maybe seized funds from the officers if malfeasance is involved...but that will take many many years to happen and get resolved. And yeah, it's a fuzzy line between collateral and theft, legally, but it happens all the time. Edited August 31, 2006 by EricW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgary Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 (edited) Oh, and before I forget... in some states, there are provisions in the employment law which allow an employee to initiate wrongful termination action against an employer who closes his doors without giving employees notice of his intent to do so. It is viewed as a "bad faith act", because the secrecy and suddenness impair the employees' ability to act in their own best interests and obtain other employment without interruption in their income. I have heard (anecdotally) that damage awards can be tied to how long the employer "kept the secret", in other words the time between "we've decided to close up shop" and "we've decided to tell people we're closing". Would be really interesting to contact a Texas lawyer versed in labor law and see what they say. of course, it depends on the employer having assets worth going after, but... it shouldn't be hard to find enough assets to get their interest. Bruce aren't gettting their PTO, it's because there is no money left They're telling him that a bancruptcy court will decide about it as it's an outstanding liability and not a payroll item. Sounds like this is less about "can we pay the PTO", and more about "we're going to wait and see if we *have* to pay the PTO" If the business is a small business, where the owner(s) will directly/personally benefit from the proceeds of any liquidation efforts, they will have a strong personal motivation to pay their departing employees as *little* as they can legally get away with... because to pay them more comes out of their own pockets. If that is the case... a perfectly viable tactic is to demonstrate to them that they aren't going to get *anything* until your outstanding claim against them is fully and fairly resolved. $.02 B Edited August 31, 2006 by bgary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carinab Posted August 31, 2006 Author Share Posted August 31, 2006 Can I just say, I love you guys!!!!! I found the employee handbook and turns out PTO above 18 days was supposed to be paid out once a month. But my hubby said they sent an email out about a year ago saying the policy was suspended and that people ought to starting using their days if they have to many. Thankfully he only had about one month of PTO. His boss had two months. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgary Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 http://www.twc.state.tx.us/ui/lablaw/ll1.pdf http://www.twc.state.tx.us/ui/lablaw/pdlsum.html ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgary Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 (edited) Found an interesting brochure about the WARN act at http://www.doleta.gov/layoff/pdf/WorkerWARN2003.pdf This is [apparently] a federal law which *requires* an employer to give 60 days notice of intent to do a mass lay-off or close a business; the penalties for failing to do so (e.g., "guess what, today's your last day!") can be as much as 60 days back pay, plus other (civil) penalties. Check out page 6 (of 30) to see if hubby's employer qualifies, and page 18 (of 30) to see what they say about payment for earned time off. B Edited August 31, 2006 by bgary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 Can we nominate Bruce for another MOM? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carinab Posted August 31, 2006 Author Share Posted August 31, 2006 (edited) Okay, I went through the safe. Anyone interested in some STI bits look here. BTW, I'm all for Bruce getting another MOM nomination!!! Edited August 31, 2006 by carinab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carinab Posted September 1, 2006 Author Share Posted September 1, 2006 Update: He came home with paperwork stating that there won't be any med insurance to cobra because their "plan" is closing. And today is the last day of the month. Nice. We also have to roll out the 401(k) plan What a hassle. And that unpaid PTO equals over $10k according to his last paystub...Now I'm really ticked! I'm thinking that I'm going to closely read some of the docs Bruce posted. As policy dictated that the minimum number of work hours was 55 per week, a lot of folks felt pressured to not take their time off. I'm thinking that if all the former employees collectively hired a labor lawyer, we might be able to hammer 'em into paying some of it off. Although the small claims route has some appeal because I'd love to roll up to the CEO's multi millon dollar home with a moving truck. The only assets the company has is some test equipment and office furniture. Oh yeah, and the beer fridge that the employees started raiding at 10am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted September 1, 2006 Share Posted September 1, 2006 Linda my wife found out a few months ago that the building she runs was going to be sold, 19years +10months, ... It did sell but she now has a better paying job with a better job title doing the same job at the same building, just for the new owner. All the jobs I left or got let off of lead me to a better place. I and We wish you and your Hubby the best. Jamie I have ben self employed for 18 years it can be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RifleShooter Posted September 1, 2006 Share Posted September 1, 2006 That stinks! I worked for a company that declared bankruptcy, but they set aside money for some 'key people', of which I was one, and paid us bonuses to stay through what was supposed to be a reorg. It got ugly for them, but I did get my money, and a new job, which paid more, so it worked out. That was about 6 years ago, and now I am making more, and working less, than ever before. What exactly did your hubbie do for this company? With all the diversity we have around here, someone might know someone that can help. I got a job working from home, so they don't care where I am, and we did not have to move when my last job ended. Something like that could happen, depending on what exactly his skillset is like. Good luck! Arnie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted September 1, 2006 Share Posted September 1, 2006 I was in a small Texas startup that went under owing me money. The labor laws pretty much screw the employees in those cases. Hopefully something good will come out of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carinab Posted September 1, 2006 Author Share Posted September 1, 2006 (edited) Duh...guess I could have mentioned that a bit sooner... Networking is definitely the name of the game at this point if the job search time posted earlier is on target. He is an electrical engineer and has been working in the telecom industry most recently designing computer and communications boards, coding fpga devices, and such. As the staff grew smaller over the last few months, his repsonsibilities got larger including debugging, testing, and fixing returned boards. His master's thesis was on compression algorithms and he has some experience (and a big interest) in cryptography. I my geek! For fun, he decoded the car chip for a corvette and for a while as a hobby was customizing chips for some ZR1's (on and off a dyno) here locally. Edited September 1, 2006 by carinab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AikiDale Posted September 1, 2006 Share Posted September 1, 2006 (edited) There might be a job in Northern Virginia. And there is SpaWar. Edited September 1, 2006 by AikiDale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_pinto Posted September 1, 2006 Share Posted September 1, 2006 Carina, PM sent on Networking Position available NOW in OKC, but can live remote. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bgary Posted September 1, 2006 Share Posted September 1, 2006 He came home with paperwork stating that there won't be any med insurance to cobra because their "plan" is closing Unless the health-care provider that their plan was with is closing *their* doors, that shouldn't be an issue. COBRA basically says that you have the right to continue your existing coverage, at group rates, even with the employer out of the picture. http://www.dol.gov/ebsa/faqs/faq_consumer_cobra.html another MOM nomination <laughing> Only if we can make it stand for "Master Of Mayhem". I **HATE** it when people do an honest, good faith job for an employer, and the employer turns around and screws them. B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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