Z-man Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 After shooting this weekend's Tennessee Sectional (an excellent match by the way) I realized two things that I knew before but managed to forget somehow . First, shoot only my game. I was squadded with Matt Mink and several other great production shooters and I was a bit too ambitious in trying to chase them all weekend. It left me with pretty fast times but over 90 penalty points. Yikes. I know that I just need to be more patient and realize that I can't make myself shoot like a GM just because I want to (really bad). That ambition should motivate my practices but not overwhelm my matches. Second, it's time to get back to basics as my speed is overtaking my accuracy. As Saul Kirsch's book says (I was re-reading it for consolement), this game is about figuring out how much accuracy can be sacrificed for speed. Let's just say that I'm way too far down that road! I should have seen the warning signs as well, because my practices have been getting sloppy as I've pushed to beat certain par times. In some of the local matches I've been pushing the envelope and gotten away with some stage wins because of a fast time but have thrown a mike or no-shoot here and there. The mentality has been "wow, I just broke a personal best on that draw... though I missed the plate" or "I smoked that stage... with two mikes". In other words, the pursuit of speed has made me sloppy. The one good thing about pushing the limit though is I now know what is TOO fast so I can scale things back a bit and then progress a bit more slowly. Anyways, I'm sure others have learned this lesson, it was just driven home this weekend for me! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 But the key is to not scale back your speed, but "Focus" more consistently and use that new found speed. The start may be seeing what you did wrong on that blazing run. Then seeing it as you do it. Then not doing it. Either way the fun's in the journey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-man Posted August 30, 2006 Author Share Posted August 30, 2006 (edited) But the key is to not scale back your speed, but "Focus" more consistently and use that new found speed.The start may be seeing what you did wrong on that blazing run. Then seeing it as you do it. Then not doing it. Either way the fun's in the journey. That makes sense, my only concern is that while speed is good, does speed count when not accompanied by sufficient accuracy? So, for instance, does a .75 draw count for anything if you shoot a "D" on the target or even a mike? It just means that I am capable of getting the gun out of the holster and near the target in that speed and I suppose it helps in the sense that I've learned what my upper limit is but I think I need to aim for a .85 draw with an A (those times are just examples ) and keep moving up from there. Edited August 30, 2006 by Z-man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vluc Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Stop focusing on time. Speed with mistakes can win a stage against slower, poorer shooters. As you have learned, the big dogs shoot THEIR game and let others make the mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bear23 Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 I think every shooter here has probably had this problem. You do need to push the envelope now and then to determine what you can and cannot do. At some point you can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jake Di Vita Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Just aim bro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crusher Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Don't think (at least while shooting a stage) and AIM. Take one stage at a time (that's all you can prepare for) and again AIM. Learn to observe at whatever speed you chose to and again AIM. That's it in a nutshell and it is no more complex and requres no more effort than as above. In reality it is THAT simple, why make simple complex? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew_Mink Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Don't beat yourself up too badly, as we talked about at the match you've got to push it to know what it is like. You learned from it, you are a good shooter, now take what you learned and apply it. Plus, we've all been there, done that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-man Posted August 30, 2006 Author Share Posted August 30, 2006 Thanks everyone! The more and more I think about this, the more I realize how simple it really is. As Jake said, it's all about aiming and shooting at a speed that correlates to my own ability to aim. Thanks Matt as well, I will definitely be putting my lessons learned this weekend into my practice sessions. Here's another question for you top dawg... do you ever encounter a time in a match when you should push the envelope? I know that its useful in practice to see what you are capable of and to push the limits, but how about in a match? Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 I recall an interview that Leatham gave after winning the Limited Nationals in 2004... He got out to a good lead in the match. Top shooter after top shooter tried to push the limits to catch him. They all seemed to crash and burn. That year Travis (who can be/is as fast as anybody) secured second place by shooting a solid and controlled match. Cool...I found the interview on AndersonShooting.com Listen to TT's interview too (I think that is Jake in the background making all that noise...trying to figure out if he likes Open guns or not). There are times to push. Like, in Steel Challenge when you've just recorded 4 clean runs. Another of the same won't do you any good, so why not accept a little less vision on the last run. And, if you are shooting to win the USPSA match...and don't care if you drop from second place to seventh (which is likely a BS cop-out, btw) then feel free to open it up. I see a lot of guys that think it's cool to go for "stage wins". Heroes or zeros. That doesn't tend to win matches. I'd suggest getting a goal...and letting your vision take you there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted August 30, 2006 Share Posted August 30, 2006 Oh...and take full credit for your successes...blame all the negative stuff on Mink. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bayoupirate Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 Been there and done that. Almost ran out of ammo shooting steel plates with Blake Miguez. I have a bad habit of allowing other shooters to push my pace up a notch. Gotta run your own game at your own speed. It's not easy, but Jake's right. Just Aim and don't shoot faster than you can aquire the sight picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-man Posted August 31, 2006 Author Share Posted August 31, 2006 Flex is right... it wasn't my fault I didn't shoot a great match.... it was Matt Mink that caused all my problems . Just kidding, thanks for all the info guys. That's a great interview with Leatham as well. Inspired I went out to the range this evening and set up a target at 20 yards. I only used my timer for a start beep and didn't worry about times at all. I just shot and focused on the mechanics and getting good hits. Lets just say it was a much needed change of pace! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew_Mink Posted August 31, 2006 Share Posted August 31, 2006 do you ever encounter a time in a match when you should push the envelope? This is probably not what you expected to hear, but I was pushing it from start to finish. But I was in control, and thats the difference between crashing and lots of A's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-man Posted August 31, 2006 Author Share Posted August 31, 2006 So there is shooting slower than one's ability, shooting conservative, pushing the envelope while maintaining control, and then crashing. It seems as though, at least for me, the line between pushing in control and crashing seems to be a fine one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted September 1, 2006 Share Posted September 1, 2006 You can also be too relaxed and complacent. And still get crappy hits. I've found that the difference between good and bad hits isn't speed, it's focus. But when all else is said, when that buzzer goes off "Your only friend is that front sight"! If you truly focus on it (at whatever degree is necessary for the shots needed), and let yourself move thru the course you'll do better than "Trying" to either Push or Relax. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted September 1, 2006 Share Posted September 1, 2006 Z, After reading Matt's last post (#14) and the posts after...the thing that keeps popping into my mind is being in high places... Every go up to a big, high drop-off and stand a good six feet back and just barely peer over the edge? Contrast that with Matt running the girders on the 89th story of a new built high-rise building. It can look easy. But his skill and time in the saddle keep him from getting blown off the building when a cross-wind come along. Push way too hard in a match and you risk tumbling to the bottom floor. Push just a bit too much and you only risk slipping to straddle the girder (and take a wicked hit to the nutz). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z-man Posted September 1, 2006 Author Share Posted September 1, 2006 LOL! Good stuff everyone. Trying to keep up with Matt definitely left me feeling like I'd taken a good shot to the...um... nutz. We had an indoor match just last night and pskys2's comments hit home. Fast or slow doesn't effect hits nearly as much as good or poor focus does. I noticed that my eyes move fast enough that even at top speed with a good focus I'm getting good hits but have also had slow runs when I just kinda gloss over and drop big points. It's deceiving because the idea of having a clean sight picture on every target seems really slow so when I say "go fast" I lose that mentality when in reality I can shoot just as fast by moving smoothly through a stage and having a proper visual focus and mindset that says (as Jake said) "just aim". I guess I had been conflating focus and speed (ie. fast=sacrifice in focus, slow=good focus) when the two are related but independent of speed (if that makes sense). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted September 1, 2006 Share Posted September 1, 2006 Sounds like you're on the right track. Good Luck. Smooth is fast, that's why the Hare lost to the Tortoise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuck in C Posted September 2, 2006 Share Posted September 2, 2006 At least you have half the equation: you missed very fast. I, on the other hand, miss very slowly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Kline Posted September 2, 2006 Share Posted September 2, 2006 Hey Z, I just read your email you sent me and now this post. Good stuff, huh?? You're on the right track, but it takes a different kind of INTENSE focus to have Matt's speed and still hit A's. When I took Todd's class about 8 years ago, he always told us, "shoot to 90-95% of your ability". Push your shooting to the edge and then just back off a little so you can do it on demand every time. If you shoot at 100% all the time, you're going to crash several times during a match and ruin your overall finish. Plus, shooting Prod is a little different than Limited, like we talked about. You're dropping double the points for the same hits in Prod compared to Lim. In Lim, it's easier to hose like crazy and still get 90% of your points, but in Prod, (in my opinion a much harder game) you've got to develop the skill to still shoot at superb speed and still get 90% + of your points. You'll get there bro, you seem very comfortable and natural when you shoot, its just going to take some time and practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sandman_sy Posted September 5, 2006 Share Posted September 5, 2006 I'm in the very same shoes you are in right now. Thanx for posting it. read this thread 10 times already. to just refresh the advice from the peeps here!!! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odie Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 I was on the same squad as Z-man. It really didn't take me long to figure out I wasn't going to keep up with hardly anybody, and I had already eaten 30 pts. in penalties on the first 2 stages, mostly due to shooting like a chihuahua on acid. So, in a fit of desperation, I decided I would not break a shot without a sight picture. It ended up being one of my better matches, at least for my ability. So I tried the same thing the following weekend at the Hillbilly Classic. Same result. Not one stellar stage, but the cumulative effect was good. I figure at some point I will have to learn to push harder, but for now, I'm just gonna aim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paradox Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 I figure at some point I will have to learn to push harder, but for now, I'm just gonna aim. Hey now! I misrepresent that advice Just read this thread and realized who everyone is... Had a great time shooting with squad 8, hope to do it again sometime! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew_Mink Posted September 7, 2006 Share Posted September 7, 2006 Yeah just about the entire squad 8 is represented in this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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