JThompson Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 How do you feel about "are you ready" command after load and make ready? I have been hearing lately that some think it is to hard, or too unfocusing? to nod, or say yes. Which is proper? I like RUR... it gives me a chance to shake my head if not... if I am I just wait making no movements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 8.3.2 “Are You Ready?” – The lack of any negative response from the competitor indicates that he fully understands the requirements of the course of fire and is ready to proceed. If the competitor is not ready at the “Are You Ready?” command, he must state “Not Ready”. It is suggested that when the competitor is ready he should assume the required start position to indicate his readiness to the Range Officer. I was at a sectional match earlier this year where the CRO on one stage asked, "Are you ready?" When I didn't reply and just maintained the start position, he comes back with, "WELL? ....ARE YOU??!!?!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waxman Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 Well, that answers that, I never knew that. I was running a guy earlier this week, that just said, "I dont have to answer that" when I asked him. Never knew if it was a official range command, but I always though it was curtious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 I learned that in the Level I RO class...among other things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JThompson Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 8.3.2 “Are You Ready?” – The lack of any negative response from the competitor indicates that he fully understands the requirements of the course of fire and is ready to proceed. If the competitor is not ready at the “Are You Ready?” command, he must state “Not Ready”. It is suggested that when the competitor is ready he should assume the required start position to indicate his readiness to the Range Officer.I was at a sectional match earlier this year where the CRO on one stage asked, "Are you ready?" When I didn't reply and just maintained the start position, he comes back with, "WELL? ....ARE YOU??!!?!" I would have plugged him. At the very least a "bitch slap" at the en of the stage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 Just an idea. Why don't we come up with a wallet sized card with the basics on it in large type. Pack it in with the overlays we all get when we renew? Range commands and actions to take Courtesy calls, Range going hot! Eyes and Ears. Shooter to the line Do you have any questions? The foregoing are non=offical and one could argue we don't need them, but they are nice to have. The COMMANDS Load and make ready (I thought we were going to change this to "Make Ready") Shooter makes ready. Are You Ready? No response required, wait 1-4 seconds and Start signal, (generally a BEEP) At the end of the COF. If You are Finished (Pause to allow the shooter to actually make sure he is finished before continuing with the COMMAND portion of this line) Unload and Show Clear (This is a command, the prior is an inquiry) then finish with If clear, (Pause) Hammer Down, (Pause) Holster Once the shooter has holstered, give the following notice: Range is clear. Do not take a long time after the Holster command. If the shooter drops his gun AFTER you declare the range is clear, it is NOT during the COF, before the RIC, it is. Note the range is not SAFE, it is CLEAR Other commands or warnings can be printed on the opposite side STOP Muzzle ( I really don't like this one) Finger (Same) Other than the above, is there anything that an RO should be saying to the shooter? And my apologies if I have inadvertently screwed up any of the verbiage or interpratations. Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 Just an idea.Why don't we come up with a wallet sized card with the basics on it in large type. Pack it in with the overlays we all get when we renew? Range commands and actions to take Courtesy calls, Range going hot! Eyes and Ears. Shooter to the line Do you have any questions? The foregoing are non=offical and one could argue we don't need them, but they are nice to have. The COMMANDS Load and make ready (I thought we were going to change this to "Make Ready") Shooter makes ready. Are You Ready? No response required, proceed to Standby,wait 1-4 seconds and Start signal, (generally a BEEP) At the end of the COF. If You are Finished (Pause to allow the shooter to actually make sure he is finished before continuing with the COMMAND portion of this line) Unload and Show Clear (This is a command, the prior is an inquiry) then finish with If clear, (Pause) Hammer Down, (Pause) Holster Once the shooter has holstered, give the following notice: Range is clear. Do not take a long time after the Holster command. If the shooter drops his gun AFTER you declare the range is clear, it is NOT during the COF, before the RIC, it is. Note the range is not SAFE, it is CLEAR Other commands or warnings can be printed on the opposite side STOP Muzzle ( I really don't like this one) Finger (Same) Other than the above, is there anything that an RO should be saying to the shooter? And my apologies if I have inadvertently screwed up any of the verbiage or interpratations. Jim I decided to include the command you left out...... For the record: Jim can't type the commands correctly, but manages to spew forth the proper commands most of the time on the range, esp. when George isn't in the vicinity..... :devil: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul B Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 Leave out the "muzzle" and "finger" so we won't be sued in the event of an accident caused by them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 Thanks Nik, Let's see, basic safety brief Don't shoot me Don't shoot my truck Don't shoot anyone else on the squad Don't shoot yourself Shoulkd you ignore 1-3, feel free to ignore #4 Jim Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted August 10, 2007 Share Posted August 10, 2007 Basic safety briefing: "Don't scare the RO." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDH Posted August 11, 2007 Share Posted August 11, 2007 I was at a sectional match earlier this year where the CRO on one stage asked, "Are you ready?"When I didn't reply and just maintained the start position, he comes back with, "WELL? ....ARE YOU??!!?!" Hmmm.... While I think this is obvious, I'll put it up here anyway as someone may learn from it... the tried and true indicator for most of the NROI staff is when the competitor assumes the start position and settles down. Most competitors keep their hand on the gun while they are 'getting their mind right', and since we can't start them while touching the gun (8.2.3), it is really obvious that they are not ready. While a nod is often appreciated, once they pull their hand from the gun and assume the position, they will get 'Are You Ready?' from me... With all the matches I have worked, I'd bet that I could count the number of 'premature Are You Ready commands' I've given on one hand.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micah Posted August 11, 2007 Share Posted August 11, 2007 I had an RO at a recent major tell me "Make ready". I didn't think that I heard him correctly, so I did nothing. "Make ready", he repeated 10 seconds later. I looked at him and said "Load and make ready?", not trying to be a smart ass, rather wanting to be perfectly certain that I was not about to dq myself. "There is no loading involved in the start of this stage, so make ready!", was his reply. Obviously I am not going to correct the stage commands just before he scores my stage...but come on guys Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDH Posted August 11, 2007 Share Posted August 11, 2007 I had an RO at a recent major tell me "Make ready". I didn't think that I heard him correctly, so I did nothing. "Make ready", he repeated 10 seconds later.I looked at him and said "Load and make ready?", not trying to be a smart ass, rather wanting to be perfectly certain that I was not about to dq myself. "There is no loading involved in the start of this stage, so make ready!", was his reply. Obviously I am not going to correct the stage commands just before he scores my stage...but come on guys Wasn't there and hate to 'Monday Morning Quarterback'.... but while 'Make Ready' isn't specifically called out under USPSA rules, it is called out under IPSC rules (8.3.1 assuming this was an unloaded start). I know it's a little weird, but calling out LAMR on an unloaded start gets weird too.... "YOU told me to LOAD and make ready"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shawn Knight Posted August 11, 2007 Share Posted August 11, 2007 Anyone ever got: "Gun's Queer so's the Shooter!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted August 11, 2007 Share Posted August 11, 2007 I had an RO at a recent major tell me "Make ready". I didn't think that I heard him correctly, so I did nothing. "Make ready", he repeated 10 seconds later.I looked at him and said "Load and make ready?", not trying to be a smart ass, rather wanting to be perfectly certain that I was not about to dq myself. "There is no loading involved in the start of this stage, so make ready!", was his reply. Obviously I am not going to correct the stage commands just before he scores my stage...but come on guys Wasn't there and hate to 'Monday Morning Quarterback'.... but while 'Make Ready' isn't specifically called out under USPSA rules, it is called out under IPSC rules (8.3.1 assuming this was an unloaded start). I know it's a little weird, but calling out LAMR on an unloaded start gets weird too.... "YOU told me to LOAD and make ready"... I like and appreciate the IPSC version with "Make Ready" for an unloaded start. But, when shooting USPSA (currently) we are stuck with what is in the book, I feel. That being LAMR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDH Posted August 11, 2007 Share Posted August 11, 2007 I had an RO at a recent major tell me "Make ready". I didn't think that I heard him correctly, so I did nothing. "Make ready", he repeated 10 seconds later.I looked at him and said "Load and make ready?", not trying to be a smart ass, rather wanting to be perfectly certain that I was not about to dq myself. "There is no loading involved in the start of this stage, so make ready!", was his reply. Obviously I am not going to correct the stage commands just before he scores my stage...but come on guys Wasn't there and hate to 'Monday Morning Quarterback'.... but while 'Make Ready' isn't specifically called out under USPSA rules, it is called out under IPSC rules (8.3.1 assuming this was an unloaded start). I know it's a little weird, but calling out LAMR on an unloaded start gets weird too.... "YOU told me to LOAD and make ready"... I like and appreciate the IPSC version with "Make Ready" for an unloaded start. But, when shooting USPSA (currently) we are stuck with what is in the book, I feel. That being LAMR. I hear ya, but there are some other things in the IPSC rulebook that apply in the US without having a USPSA rule, like IPSC 9.1.7 (target sticks do not exist). Also, since USPSA is a part of IPSC, I think it is fair to look into the IPSC rules if things are not quite spelled out under USPSA rules and then use some judgement. I know this gets a little weird though... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted August 11, 2007 Share Posted August 11, 2007 We had a RO at a major this year add a new range command. It was a face up range start and he said "Look me in the eye, LOOK AT ME" Not a joke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moneypenny Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 bill... that's funny. was it in the written stage briefing .. hahahahaha and for my many old martial arts instructors ... i will not look you in the eye.. you will steal my concentration! ( strange but it's amazing how it works) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mscott Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 I had an RO at a recent major tell me "Make ready". I didn't think that I heard him correctly, so I did nothing. "Make ready", he repeated 10 seconds later.I looked at him and said "Load and make ready?", not trying to be a smart ass, rather wanting to be perfectly certain that I was not about to dq myself. "There is no loading involved in the start of this stage, so make ready!", was his reply. Obviously I am not going to correct the stage commands just before he scores my stage...but come on guys I think this one might go to the not remembering the stage briefing or paying attention. Some of the newer non-dedicated once-a-month shooters hear "load and make ready", so they do just that. I agree on the use of proper commands, but also see the point of just "make ready" as a reminder to not load your gun for this stage. On another note, could you be DQ'd for drawing your gun on an improper command like that? I think you could argue that one and win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mscott Posted August 12, 2007 Share Posted August 12, 2007 We had a RO at a major this year add a new range command. It was a face up range start and he said "Look me in the eye, LOOK AT ME" Not a joke. Maybe he was tired of shooters playing "twister" in the start box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LPatterson Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 Just finished a match that had an unloaded gun start and part of the WSB included the use of the "make ready" command. The RO's still allowed a sight picture & simulated load after the MR command. I hope this is something that USPSA includes in the new rule to accommodate unloaded starts. I realize that USPSA is not training for the real world but some states mandate guns are unloaded & locked at all times. No I don't want to shoot a stage where I have to unlock the gun first because mine are always loaded where ever they are in the house. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted August 13, 2007 Share Posted August 13, 2007 I had an RO at a recent major tell me "Make ready". I didn't think that I heard him correctly, so I did nothing. "Make ready", he repeated 10 seconds later.I looked at him and said "Load and make ready?", not trying to be a smart ass, rather wanting to be perfectly certain that I was not about to dq myself. "There is no loading involved in the start of this stage, so make ready!", was his reply. Obviously I am not going to correct the stage commands just before he scores my stage...but come on guys I think this one might go to the not remembering the stage briefing or paying attention. Some of the newer non-dedicated once-a-month shooters hear "load and make ready", so they do just that. I agree on the use of proper commands, but also see the point of just "make ready" as a reminder to not load your gun for this stage. On another note, could you be DQ'd for drawing your gun on an improper command like that? I think you could argue that one and win. I don't see how. LAMR, whether the stage requires the gun to loaded or not, is the shooter's command to "prepare the gun". It's also the time when sight pictures are allowed. No DQ for drawing the gun after LAMR, even if the eventual ready condition for that stage is unloaded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HuskySig Posted August 14, 2007 Share Posted August 14, 2007 Just finished a match that had an unloaded gun start and part of the WSB included the use of the "make ready" command. The RO's still allowed a sight picture & simulated load after the MR command. That was my stage. Is it appropriate to ask a shooter to take a step backward before giving "If finished" command? On my Area 1 stage, the shooters ended up with their pistols extended beyond the left side of a wall. For right handed shooters I would stand on their right side and they would be doing their unloading procedure in a pretty tight spot, between the shooter and a wall. I started asking the shooters to take a step backward to increase the space between the wall. After the step backward I would give the IF command. Was this bad? mattk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted August 14, 2007 Share Posted August 14, 2007 Matt, it's fine. While ideally range commands should be all that's necessary, sometimes you need to say other words, to help the shooter, and to ensure that you can do your job.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micah Posted August 14, 2007 Share Posted August 14, 2007 We had a RO at a major this year add a new range command. It was a face up range start and he said "Look me in the eye, LOOK AT ME" Not a joke. Lord...and that guy looked like grim death too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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