Racinready300ex Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 On 7/19/2024 at 7:40 PM, Hoops said: The survey is far more than the handful of us here in Enos and thus far, the result appears to be overwhelmingly in favor of LO. It will happen based on popular vote…IMO. I agree it will happen, just the question is stacked it's not surprise people vote yes. Would you like another chance to win at majors? What about winning at locals? Would you like another division to classify in? Of course people vote yes. On 7/19/2024 at 7:45 PM, Hoops said: I have confirmed there are 704 slots initially setup for each WSSC. No one has ever been turned away. 637 this year left 63 open slots this year. This is a non-issue relative to anther division addition. Time will tell really. It looks like most years the turn out is about the same. So for it to not effect other divisions either more shooters need to register or the shooters that decide to shoot LO need to still shoot all the same divisions and just add one more. If people start skipping Open or CO in favor of LO then the end result is going to be 3 smaller divisions which likely wont get recognized at state and area level matches. On a positive, at this point I can't even imagine what the 15th division could ever be. But we'll revisit that in a couple years I'm sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 On 7/19/2024 at 4:38 PM, zzt said: I didn't say that. I build my Open guns to push the limit. They are full race. What I said was building a 2011 that ran 100% on 95-100 PF loads was possible, but pointless. It buys you nothing that counts. Muzzle rise will be virtually the same. It will make a little less noise and be a tad softer to shoot. Not enough IMO to spend $4k on a dedicated gun that is otherwise useless. You may have a point on drawing from USPSA. I know several who now shoot SCSA with their CO guns. I know a couple tried SCSA once shooting their Limited guns with major loads. Not the optimal choice. Many USPSA Limited shooters are converting to LO. Most are buying a new gun so they can shoot 9mm. Some might come over. I shoot USPSA 1st, 2nd and 3rd Saturdays. I shoot SCSA on the 4th and the occasional 5th. The USPSA match closest to me on the 4th Sat is far away, starts early and runs late. If there was a 6-7 stage match an hour away, I might be shooting that instead of SCSA. I don't shoot SC really, I've done it a little certainly wouldn't call myself a SC shooter. Matches are to far away with to little to gain over closer outlaw matches to be worth the trouble. So I don't know how into equipment real SC shooters get. But, uspsa LO guns are also useless and give you vary little advantage over a CO gun. And there is even less advantage to a 7K dollar custom 2011 vs a tuned up prodigy or a DWX or similar for a fraction of the cost. Yet, those otherwise useless custom 2011's are still vary much in demand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrel45 Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 47 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said: On a positive, at this point I can't even imagine what the 15th division could ever be Rimfire revolver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoops Posted July 22 Author Share Posted July 22 7 minutes ago, Squirrel45 said: Rimfire revolver You and Steve Foster In the podcast, Zack Jones promised Foster there would be an “open, unofficial “ match at next year’s WSSC for Rimfire Revolver. 15? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoops Posted July 22 Author Share Posted July 22 12 minutes ago, Squirrel45 said: Rimfire revolver https://www.iheart.com/podcast/256-steeltargetpaint-31050921/episode/103-lo-survey-results-and-peak-197437973/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GKB Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 1 hour ago, Racinready300ex said: I can't even imagine what the 15th division could ever be How can you add a division between CO and OPEN and not add one between PROD and LIMITED? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zzt Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 1 hour ago, Racinready300ex said: But, uspsa LO guns are also useless and give you vary little advantage over a CO gun. And there is even less advantage to a 7K dollar custom 2011 vs a tuned up prodigy or a DWX or similar for a fraction of the cost. Yet, those otherwise useless custom 2011's are still vary much in demand. There is not a lot of difference between CO and LO in USPSA, but it is there. Now that more actual 2011 LO guns are showing up (as opposed to converted CO guns), the differences are evident. At the last local match, the top spots were taken by Open shooters. Then came LO shooters, followed by CO shooters. A B LO shooter beat a lot of A CO shooters by a wide margin. If you are spending $7k on a custom LO gun, you are buying bling. You don't need to spend any more than $3.5k for an excellent LO gun. I could build one for less. Sure, you could buy a Prodigy and tune it up. $1250 for the gun, $750+ for tuning if you cannot do it yourself. Add $125 for the mounting plate and you are at $2125. $1k away from a custom 2011, and just about the same as my shooting buddies tricked out CZs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 21 minutes ago, zzt said: There is not a lot of difference between CO and LO in USPSA, but it is there. Now that more actual 2011 LO guns are showing up (as opposed to converted CO guns), the differences are evident. At the last local match, the top spots were taken by Open shooters. Then came LO shooters, followed by CO shooters. A B LO shooter beat a lot of A CO shooters by a wide margin. If you are spending $7k on a custom LO gun, you are buying bling. You don't need to spend any more than $3.5k for an excellent LO gun. I could build one for less. Sure, you could buy a Prodigy and tune it up. $1250 for the gun, $750+ for tuning if you cannot do it yourself. Add $125 for the mounting plate and you are at $2125. $1k away from a custom 2011, and just about the same as my shooting buddies tricked out CZs. I think the top spots has more to do with the shooter then if he LO or CO gun. Not saying they're aren't any benefits, but the advantages you gain are small enough that the better shooter still wins. It's not at all crazy for the CO shooter to be a fantasy division beating the Open and PCC shooters. I think LO will easily overtake CO in time. People like nice things and want the best gear. Both SC and USPSA need to realize we're killing CO with the addition of LO. As long as we're cool with that, lets do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 1 hour ago, Squirrel45 said: Rimfire revolver 45 minutes ago, GKB said: How can you add a division between CO and OPEN and not add one between PROD and LIMITED? The ground work for 16 and 17 is already laid. lol. All together that gives shooters 3 more chances to be a champion and 3 more places to get classifier. What could go wrong? I bet a lot of people would support these if put to a vote. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GKB Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 Where's my Rimfire Lever Action Optics Division? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 38 minutes ago, GKB said: Where's my Rimfire Lever Action Optics Division? Yeh no kidding,, we need a manual operated carbine divions.. One for PCC and one for rimfire... Humm but then all the lever gun dudes will start cryign when I show up with a pump... So we 'll need a pump and lever divisions.... but then the bolt guys will complain they cant hang,,,, then all will be fine for awhile.. Until Quiggly shows up with his single shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigdawgbeav Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 3 hours ago, zzt said: If you are spending $7k on a custom LO gun, you are buying bling. You don't need to spend any more than $3.5k for an excellent LO gun. I could build one for less. Sure, you could buy a Prodigy and tune it up. $1250 for the gun, $750+ for tuning if you cannot do it yourself. Add $125 for the mounting plate and you are at $2125. $1k away from a custom 2011, and just about the same as my shooting buddies tricked out CZs. And you know Nils is going to be shooting it with his sub-$1K Canik Rival-S... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted July 22 Share Posted July 22 4 hours ago, GKB said: Where's my Rimfire Lever Action Optics Division? Just adopt all the guns of SASS into their own divisions. They like shooting steel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted July 23 Share Posted July 23 On 7/22/2024 at 7:54 AM, GKB said: How can you add a division between CO and OPEN and not add one between PROD and LIMITED? Single Stack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoops Posted August 2 Author Share Posted August 2 @Zack Jones the survey is significantly in favor of Limited Optics. During the podcast with Steve and Jeff, you stated that it is not required to have the survey open so long and you would pursue closing it. There is nothing in the July 22nd meeting about this. Can you summarize where we are with LO’s? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted August 2 Share Posted August 2 2 hours ago, Hoops said: @Zack Jones the survey is significantly in favor of Limited Optics. During the podcast with Steve and Jeff, you stated that it is not required to have the survey open so long and you would pursue closing it. There is nothing in the July 22nd meeting about this. Can you summarize where we are with LO’s? I've requested LO discussion for the next BoD meeting. And a clarification to an earlier comment you made, I told Steve I'd add a CATEGORY for Rimfire Revolver competitors to select for tracking purposes. The competitors will still shoot in either RFPI or RFPO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoops Posted August 2 Author Share Posted August 2 22 minutes ago, ZackJones said: I've requested LO discussion for the next BoD meeting. And a clarification to an earlier comment you made, I told Steve I'd add a CATEGORY for Rimfire Revolver competitors to select for tracking purposes. The competitors will still shoot in either RFPI or RFPO. Why not a category for LO considering there is very positive response from the survey? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoops Posted August 6 Author Share Posted August 6 The link below is the next BOD 8-12-24 1900 EDT board meeting agenda. On the agenda is review of Provisional Limited Optics. You can view the live stream at https://uspsa.org/live https://uspsa.org/announcement/912 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoops Posted August 13 Author Share Posted August 13 BOD’s approved LO’s as provisional and sent it to Rules and SC Committee to write it up. Survey terminated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RickT Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 What is a typical "roll out" schedule/approach for a provisional division? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoops Posted August 13 Author Share Posted August 13 16 minutes ago, RickT said: What is a typical "roll out" schedule/approach for a provisional division? Was not discussed. I plan to follow up with the SC Committee. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 11 hours ago, RickT said: What is a typical "roll out" schedule/approach for a provisional division? The process is in the bylaws. We will follow that to the letter. If we don't someone will call out us out on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoops Posted August 13 Author Share Posted August 13 25 minutes ago, ZackJones said: The process is in the bylaws. We will follow that to the letter. If we don't someone will call out us out on it. Can we assume that the clock has now been started relative to the process? Assuming the bylaws has a defined process period would you feel comfortable to offer an approximation of when we could begin shooting LO’s? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZackJones Posted August 13 Share Posted August 13 2 hours ago, Hoops said: Can we assume that the clock has now been started relative to the process? Assuming the bylaws has a defined process period would you feel comfortable to offer an approximation of when we could begin shooting LO’s? Thanks Best guess would be Jan 2025. We have to get the division appendix created, work with PractiScore to get the web and apps updated. HQ has work to do on our systems. Plus we have do dedicate time to the Misco-Jeffers PST method which also means we have to define an initial PST for LO. There is much work to be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hoops Posted August 13 Author Share Posted August 13 1 minute ago, ZackJones said: Best guess would be Jan 2025. We have to get the division appendix created, work with PractiScore to get the web and apps updated. HQ has work to do on our systems. Plus we have do dedicate time to the Misco-Jeffers PST method which also means we have to define an initial PST for LO. There is much work to be done. Thanks Zack. BTW…..over in Jesse’s topic is his peak time table. He included Limited Optics in anticipation that it would become a division. Fun times….. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now