Advice Needed

[I2edsn0w]

so i appear to have come onto this gun. found it at a LGS.. however 9mm major slips past the extractor when doing the plunk test and .38 super comp doesnt chamber at all. Not even close. Anyone (preferably OP) have any further info on this gun?

 

EDIT: got it for a little more than OP was asking for at the gun store but still well under 1,000. Was going to use it as a back up sister gun for my factory caspian hybricomp 9mm major but now i have this ammo conundrum.

Edited May 17 by I2edsn0w

[DukeSoprano]

Its 38 Super, not Super comp

[392heminut]

32 minutes ago, DukeSoprano said:

Its 38 Super, not Super comp

Or 9x21

[I2edsn0w]

3 hours ago, 392heminut said:

Or 9x21

 

3 hours ago, DukeSoprano said:

Its 38 Super, not Super comp

if it was .38 super theortically wouldnt the round still pass the "plunk" test? forgive me if im daft on this but .38 super comp is just rimless .38 super correct? the .38 supercomp i have doesn't even get close to going in enough to close the slide and needs to be ram rodded out after.

Edited May 18 by I2edsn0w

[I2edsn0w]

3 hours ago, 392heminut said:

Or 9x21

im thinking that this is correct, knowing next to nothing about this caliber besides its hisotry... to make major with 9x21 its going to require custom loads correct? This gun functions with 9 major ONLY because of  the 4 poppleholes and the huge comp. i have tried it as its VERY CLOSE to being 100% but headspaces on the extractor however it feeds extracts and loads the next round just fine, which makes me think the gun is 9x21. From here im not sure if my best option is to buy some brass and reload the 9mm major into the 9x21 but i'm not sure if that's safe. If anyone else wants this gun may end up passing it on which sucks, it shoots pretty good all things considered for being an old tired gun. 

[DukeSoprano]

What does it say on the barrel?

[392heminut]

42 minutes ago, DukeSoprano said:

What does it say on the barrel?

Most aftermarket barrels , if stamped with anything, are just stamped genericly. Usually .400 for 40 S&W barrels and 9mm for the .355 bore barrels. The barrels are finish reamed by the end user/builder.

[tomjerry1]

I had an early model like the one pictured, the barrel was stamped 9x21, but was chambered 38S. I was told by an older smith, that the barrels were had with many stamps, but short chambered and reamed to 38S, whatever was available. That is an early version of the Caspian double stack, prone to the frame cracking in and around the mag release area. Before Caspian announced that they no longer produced the double stack frame, you could warranty it, now? 

PS, my Caspians will chamber both the Super and Super Comps, I prefer SC.

[I2edsn0w]

3 hours ago, DukeSoprano said:

What does it say on the barrel?

as other stated it says nothing other than .355 hybricomp and then the DANGER EXHAUST PORTS and the patent info. I believe its 9x21 as 9x19 passes plunk test is airtight in the chamber it just doesn't seem LONG enough. like i said 9x19 major shoots no issues.

 

1 hour ago, tomjerry1 said:

I had an early model like the one pictured, the barrel was stamped 9x21, but was chambered 38S. I was told by an older smith, that the barrels were had with many stamps, but short chambered and reamed to 38S, whatever was available. That is an early version of the Caspian double stack, prone to the frame cracking in and around the mag release area. Before Caspian announced that they no longer produced the double stack frame, you could warranty it, now? 

PS, my Caspians will chamber both the Super and Super Comps, I prefer SC.

Could i go about warranty without the original order number or invoice? I didn't get anything with the gun other than the gun a c more and a mag so im not sure they'd honor it.

[I2edsn0w]

So I have picked up a gun that was formerly listed here on the benos forum from a LGS. I never really shot it until now because i intended for it to be the woman's gun after building it/backup gun. The gun in question is the caspian double stack sold by tim3gun. I however have run into the issue that is indeed not 38 super or supercomp like the ad described and appears to be 9x21... 9x19 major passes the plunk test and is airtight in the chamber however it headspaces on the extractor so its not something i would like to continue doing and with schuemann out of business for the time being my options for other barrels are Ka-put as the 4 hole 5.5 i need is out of stock EVERYWHERE. I've heard some bad things about rechambering a 9mm to 38 super comp due to the wider case neck of the 9mm at the back as well as some mixed things about the early caspian double stacks cracking.... so i've considered just passing on the gun or reloading my major loads into 9x21 brass from a user here on benos shooting it as my backup gun and then sell it after. Just wondering what my best option here is as I don't believe caspian will warranty out the frame since i don't have the original invoice.... Shame too as the gun shoots really really good for an old tired gun. Slide and frame rails are peened as well, gun is really tight but reliable. Thinking about sending it to doug for accurails and getting my old main guns slide (already cut for accurails) cut for the hybricomp since the slide is marked 9x21 from an old bianchi gun... That is if this isnt a basket case project since 9x21 major is dead and has been for a while now.

Edited May 18 by I2edsn0w

[GrumpyOne]

It is possible that itnis indeed a 38super variant, and that the throat is short. Have you tried dropping a resized but unloaded case into the chamber?

[RJH]

Maybe you could get a caliper and measure the chamber depth. That should eliminate a lot of questions fairly quickly

[DukeSoprano]

Well if you get it figured out and need some mags, I have a drawer full

[davsco]

have you contacted the seller?

Edited May 18 by davsco

[Jim Watson]

You need some gauges or at least an assortment of sized cases to be sure it is a 9x21.  Or maybe even a 9x23.  Starline makes both.

1 hour ago, I2edsn0w said:

That is if this isnt a basket case project since 9x21 major is dead and has been for a while now.

 

Why?  Components and data are available and the target can't tell the difference.  

[ima45dv8]

I split a bunch of posts from the ad where another discussion on this subject had been initiated. Let's take this as a chance to keep the responses in one place.

 

Thanks,

-Admin

[tomjerry1]

It makes sense that a 38S/SC may not chamber, it is a straight walled case, and the 9 series are tapered. I found the original that came with my Caspian, said 9x21 on the barrel but was reamed to super. I believe that both 9x21 and 9 luger will plunk test, but the 9 luger should sit deeper in the chamber. Have you tried contacting KKM for a barrel? all I use since Schuman went out of business. I run their .356 barrels, quality, and they will work with you.

[I2edsn0w]

5 hours ago, davsco said:

have you contacted the seller?

yes ive tried here as well as instagram. he hasnt been active here in a year or so and he is a professional shooter so im giving him some time to reply. hes probably a busy guy.

[I2edsn0w]

7 hours ago, GrumpyOne said:

It is possible that itnis indeed a 38super variant, and that the throat is short. Have you tried dropping a resized but unloaded case into the chamber?

yes. I have tried with a .38 sc brass i had laying around (just a eley .38sc with no primer/powder/projectile etc and it didn't even come close to seating in the chamber either,) id say it comes almost a quarter inch short. I have a pair of basic calipers but am not sure i can get them into the chamber to measure length. I can measure how far off of battery the gun is with a .38sc brass inside with them though. I have a feeling it isnt a .38 variant though due to needing to ram rod the case out after trying to load either empty factory new or loaded brass (FP removed). let me know if i can do anything else to help solve the mystery.

6 hours ago, DukeSoprano said:

Well if you get it figured out and need some mags, I have a drawer full

Thanks Duke, Ill keep this offer in mind. The gun does shoot really really well even with 9x19 major and a spring change with about 89% reliability so i'm not too ready to sell just yet. but if it comes down to it id rather the gun get saved by someone who can actually restore it and give it a fighting chance. (i'm a full time working college student who's into audis so i'm poorer than dirt and strapped for time.... not exactly a winning equation when you add building another open gun.

5 hours ago, ima45dv8 said:

I split a bunch of posts from the ad where another discussion on this subject had been initiated. Let's take this as a chance to keep the responses in one place.

 

Thanks,

-Admin

sorry if this was my fault admin!

[I2edsn0w]

1 hour ago, tomjerry1 said:

It makes sense that a 38S/SC may not chamber, it is a straight walled case, and the 9 series are tapered. I found the original that came with my Caspian, said 9x21 on the barrel but was reamed to super. I believe that both 9x21 and 9 luger will plunk test, but the 9 luger should sit deeper in the chamber. Have you tried contacting KKM for a barrel? all I use since Schuman went out of business. I run their .356 barrels, quality, and they will work with you.

Ill get into contact with KKM and see about a .38sc! thanks tomjerry! if they can get me a rib with the same length (even if not ported) for a reasonable price that would be awesome and would allow me to slap the old 9x21 barrel into that franken-springfield custom with the old les baer made slide. Funny that gun said 9x21 on the side and was .38sc and this gun was advertised as .38sc and appears to be some kind of 9mm lol my luck!

5 hours ago, Jim Watson said:

You need some gauges or at least an assortment of sized cases to be sure it is a 9x21.  Or maybe even a 9x23.  Starline makes both.

 

Why?  Components and data are available and the target can't tell the difference.  

Yes, i do need to get gauges and cases. Sadly being a newer shooter i don't have brass or gauges for 9x21 or 9x23 but do have them for .38sc and 9x19... this will change soon i just honestly expected the gun to be .38sc.

[Don_B]

So what is probably the simplest solution was mentioned already. Regardless what it is chambered for now  it can be rechambered for 38 Super. If you are not able to do this you also probably won't be able to rebarrel it either. Find someone that can determine the chamber now and talk to them about rechambering it if that is what you decide. 
Good luck!

[I2edsn0w]

seller advised the gun was likely for normal super (however i believe a super comp would still chamber in a normal super gun no? just maybe wouldn't extract.) I've heard of people mismatching them for practice and it runs most of the time. He also guessed 9x23. sadly it seems 9x23 is even more dead than 9x21 and by dead i don't mean bad or nonexistent like some other calibers just more unreasonable for someone in my position to work with than 38sc or 9 major. However I don't BELIEVE it is 9x23 as if it was a 38 supercomp should chamber right??? i think its time for me to just order a bunch of empty brass and test it, just don't wanna end up with a bunch of semi hard to find and semi expensive brass ill never use.

Edited May 19 by I2edsn0w

[GrumpyOne]

Again, if the brass has not been resized, you still will not know. Just using any old fired 38 super or supercomp brass is not going to tell you. The brass needs to be resized before trying to drop it in. 

If you are trying to drop in fired brass, that brass has been fire formed to whatever chamber it was fired in and not the chamber you are trying to drop it into.

 

I have a 38super, that the brass that I fire in that chamber, won't go back into that chamber, until it's been resized.

 

[GrumpyOne]

2 hours ago, I2edsn0w said:

seller advised the gun was likely for normal super (however i believe a super comp would still chamber in a normal super gun no? just maybe wouldn't extract.) I've heard of people mismatching them for practice and it runs most of the time. He also guessed 9x23. sadly it seems 9x23 is even more dead than 9x21 and by dead i don't mean bad or nonexistent like some other calibers just more unreasonable for someone in my position to work with than 38sc or 9 major. However I don't BELIEVE it is 9x23 as if it was a 38 supercomp should chamber right??? i think its time for me to just order a bunch of empty brass and test it, just don't wanna end up with a bunch of semi hard to find and semi expensive brass ill never use.

In the early days of STI, they would recommend using 9x23 to break in a new 38super open gun, so yes, if it was 9x23, a 38 super should drop in.

[shred]

Yeah, not unless you have a generous chamber.  9x-whatever is tapered case, .38 Super & Comp are straight walled.

 

This is why often reaming a 9x19 chamber to 38 Super leaves a bulge in fired brass at the back.  It'll work, but be ugly.

 

A loaded .38 Super (or Comp) round should 'plunk' into a 9x19 (or 9x21) chamber.  It'll stick out 3/16"-ish, but shouldn't be stuck in there.