Do I Have Unreasonable Expectations Of Teenager's Beheavior?

[Chills1994]

Hi everyone,

Don't really know where to post this. I almost put it into "Things I hate." But I figured I would go off into a rant.

Hang with me here....a little background

I've been shacking up (paying room and board) with a gal for almost a year and a half now at her house. She has a 14 year old only child daughter who is a high school freshman. The girlfriend has been divorced for 3 years.

The other night I was looking for the cordless phone. The daughter was sitting at her computer pounding away on her Myspace or Xanga blog instead of studying for finals. And I ask her if she has seen the phone. She hands it to me. I take it and hit the button. It is dead. I ask her if she knew it was dead. She says yes. I walk away towards the charger shaking my head. I'm miffed, but I don't say anything. We still have a hard wired phone in the kitchen.

Last night, the daughter comes into the kitchen and grabs one of two opened Kix cereal boxes sitting on the table. She has been sick with a cold (read germ-ey hands). She reaches into the one box which is almost completely full and snacks away. I grab the almost empty box and try to hand it to her. She doesn't take it. I tell her to hand me the other box. I set both back down on the table. I drop my head in my hands and start shaking my head. She asks, "Are you mad?" No, but I'm about to be. She stomps off to her mom. A few minutes later all I get from the daughter is "I HATE YOU! I HATE YOU!"

Am I wrong to expect a 14 year old to show some initiative and put the phone back on the charger, or at least tell me it is dead when they hand it to me?

Am I wrong to expect a 14 year old to have the common sense to finish off the almost empty box of Kix with her germ laiden hand?

Am I wrong to think that young'un's should still have respect for their elders (I'm 33)?

Is this just another symptom of whatever the "disease" is affecting today's youth?

I do think that some kids need to receive some attention along the lines of the Great Santini or the Drill Sergeant from the movie Full Metal Jacket, when the situation warrants it.

Anyhoo....looking for advice.

Remember these are the kids who will be voting in less than four years. And there seems to be plenty of biased indoctrination going on at these schools.

Chills

Edited December 22, 2005 by Chills1994

[Jake Di Vita]

If I would have done that (or even do that now) I'd be on my ass pretty quickly...

[blackdragon]

Chills1994,

When my son was that age, And he did something like that I would:

Give him options, You have option A( The right Thing to do, According to me.) or option B ( What he wanted to do). You know now that he is 26 and all his friends are in jail..... He tells me " Always go with option A". I would tell him that, I wouldn't ask him a question that I didn't already know the answer to! ( IE what he now calls a" DAD question"!) If that doesn't work mix both boxes of cereal!!!

Ivan

[John Heiter]

***Mods feel free to delete this if it's too confrontational but...***

Chills,

I'm sure part of it is just normal teenage behavior but I was struck by what you said. I don't know you so maybe I'm just not getting your sense of humor but if my parents were divorced and my mom started dating a guy or let a guy move in who said things like "I've been shacking up (paying R & with a gal for almost a year and a half now at her house", I don't know that I would be giving you a lot of respect either.

Playing house with an unmarried mother aside, maybe you're a stand up guy and you've been helping take care of the girl, paying for her school, clothes, food, medical, etc. and you're doing all the other parental things that would justify an expectation of some sort of parental respect but I can only go on what you told us and you did ask for opinions.

John

[Larry White]

Thats pretty much a disease they all get at about that age. Doesnt mean it cant be treated, In fact the longer its untreated the longer it last and the worse it gets. There are a lot of other factors that contribute and I think I see a few here. Respect and obedence doesnt come with the key to the door, gotta earn it. Step back and look at that whole relationship from three angles instead of two.-----Larry

[blackdragon]

Chills,

Good point made by John! Are you serious about this relationship?

Ivan

[AlamoShooter]

+1 John

Chils 14 is not as eazy for a girl as a guy 14 today is not as eazy as it was for my kids ,,, when they were 14 15 16 - just this past few years I see much better parents than I was. I know I did not do as good as I could have. I was divorced and remaired when my oldest daughter decied she wonted to live with me and not her mother so,, Maybe I did some things right.

I made grown men come close to crying on construction jobsites when I exspresed my self with a droped head in disaproval, =like you said you did

With my kids I made it seam like I was too hard to please, I wasn't but I let it seam that way. was it the kids fault? no it was my fault. If I could do some things better I would find every little ting I could that she did right and let her know I noticed.

give her a list of what you like about her. If when she said I hate you, if it hurt just a little tell her it hurt a lot , let her know you wont HER aproval. And maybe she may start caring if you aprove of her.

Kids are people too, they wont /she wonts the same thing you do.= love& respect,, Respect & Love You get what you put in to it. and no mater what amount you pay for "rent" YOU are still the guest in the house.

sounds like the mother is lucky the girl is willing to spend time at home.

Edited December 22, 2005 by AlamoShooter

[Bruce]

Not telling you how to live your life, but, hey, you asked.

Personally, I don't think you are expecting too much when you expect respect. However, it is earned, not just given when expected.

Might want to check your non-verbal communication. Shaking your head while walking away, dropping your head into your hands----none of that is a very good direct training tool. You wouldn't try to train a dog or horse with that behavior, so why try to train a human like that? It won't work. Be direct, be patient, be fair, and if you don't want bitchiness, don't be a bitch.

The phone. Fact is, phone was dead. What good does it do to ask her if she knew it was dead---when you know you are either going to get a lie, or the truth, and the truth will make you shake your head and get aggravated? Seems like each of you are fighting for control using some passive-aggressive stuff. I would probably just hang it up and go use the hard-wired phone. Not a good place to battle, imho.

Kids do stupid things. We all did. Give her some room to be a kid. Where is her mom when this stuff is happening? Where is her dad and does she spend time with him? Better question, do you spend time with him? How does her mom talk about her dad around her? If she shows him nothing but disrespect, that is probably what you will be getting from the daughter. You will need to work together if you want sanity.

Try to find the kid a hobby you three can enjoy together.

[smokshwn]

This may be a little harsh and not what you wanted to hear but you asked, so here goes.

Big +1 to the idea that the attitude you portrayed about the relationship does not lend itself in the least to getting any respect. If you are only "shacking up" with mom why should the daughter owe you any kind of respect. Doesn't "old school" involve a little more stringent moral code than the relationship you and mom are showing the daughter?

As far as the 14yo behavior goes she is acting like an undisciplined teenager. I can only assume since mom thinks it is ok to let her boyfriend move in and shack up that is about the level of discipline that has been passed on to the daughter.

good luck, Craig

Edited December 22, 2005 by smokshwn

[Clay1]

Chills, no great words of wisdom here. Have a 17 year son, a 12 year old son and a 9 year old daughter.

Best thing that I can tell you to do is to talk to her. When she talks - listen. The communication will help your relationship. That age and the next few years are tough. She's questioning everything in her life. Set some expectations for her in clear language where there is no guessing as to what you expect after disgussing your expectations with her mother. When you and Mom are on the same page and are consistant - life is easier.

The shaking of your head when she does something. She's young and just doesn't get what you want. She's not a mind reader. Some people go crazy when I say this, but training children is a lot like training bird dogs. Be consistant and don't give commands that you are not willing to enforce.

Bluntly, I probably make a better bird dog trainer than a father, but the kids are turning out OK despite that fact.

Good luck,

Rick

[Sam38]

Yes, you are wrong.

I don't see any reaon why a 14 year old girl should show any respect to someone shacking up with her mom.

If you showed the proper respect and were married to the mom my opinion would be different.

Sam Spiteri

[Chills1994]

Hey John and everyone else,

Thanks for the replies so far. John, I don't know how that smiley got there. I should have previewed the post before hitting send. I have since edited it out. I use the term "shacking up" in more of a tongue-in-cheek, collaquial manner. In bringing up the room and board thing, I only meant to emphasize the fact that I am not some bum. I am paying my own way; I'm not leeching off my girlfriend.

John, you wonder if I am a stand up guy. Well, not to brag, really....

But I am a '94 graduate of the United States Air Force Academy. Representative Jerry Costello called me on May 3rd, 1990 to tell me I earned his nomination and received an appointment to the Zoo. In four years there, I completed 192.5 credits. I earned my Air Assault wings, my freefall parachutist badge, soloed in gliders, went through Ft. Carson RECONDO, SERE (POW training), Basic Cadet Training, and the Fourth Class Year. Those 1,400 plus days were lived under the Honor Code of "We will not lie, steal, or cheat, nor tolerate...."

On June 1, 1994, I graduated with a Bachelor's of Science in Behavioral Sciences and was commissioned and sworn in as, yes, a butter bar 2nd Lt. I didn't get a pilot slot and jumped ship right about the time I would have pinned on Captain bars. Furthermore, I had a top secret clearance and I was a tactical deception officer. Since the AF, I have passed the background check and the Minnesota Multiphasic Personality Inventory in order to work on nuclear reactors.

So there are some people out there who think I am a stand up guy.

Besides, at this particular point having a marriage certificate and rings would not have affected or preempted the 14 year old's behavior.

I tried graduate school in psychology. IIRC what one professor said was that after a certain age personality or behaviors are cemented in. We may be past the point for my inputs to do any good.

Anyhoo... I really do appreciate everyone's comments so far. It is nice to see others view points on this.

I'm still left wondering if this is just more of "spare the rod, spoil the child" that is making me think badly of today's youth.

What is so hard about being 14 today than when I was 14 or when you all were 14?

I heard one reporter tonight say that the world is more complex. What makes it so?

I too would probably be a better gun dog trainer than a father.

(insert tongue in cheek) Just how big can I get an e-collar?

Chills

[dajarrel]

Chills1994,

I'm no Child Psychologist, so take what I say with a grain of salt.

Respect will be earned. Sometimes the position (Dad, adult, etc) garners a small amount just ''because'' But true respect will be earned which is a two way street. Try to see her wishes and desires and help her mother fullfill them.

Control is an elusive thing. I believe there is some chinese saying about if you cup your hand you can hold the sand, but if you squeeze to contol it...the tighter you squeeze, the more slips out between your fingers. You can't control a 14 yo. You guide and mold them without them knowing it.

The only way you will truly make a postitive impact on this young lady's life is to love her. If you are just trying to get along, she will see that very thing and treat you accordingly. But...If you are truly interested in her welfare, she will see it. She will

s l o w l y come to love you and respect you for who you are.

FWIW

dj

Edited December 22, 2005 by dajarrel

[tomfturner]

The question you asked was "Why is it different for a 14 year old today from when we where 14?". I was graduating from HS in 1994, and I personally can see an enormous change in what kids today know and can do. It's called the "information age", a kid today can find anything they want on any subject in a matter of seconds. In 1994, you still had to look things up in books (same info ... just harder to get). In the process of getting this information, kids are exposed to things (porn, politics, etc.) that most of US never cared about, or even thought about until we were adults. A kid could start a business today under an adults name at the age of 5 and be doing web programming on the side if they wanted (and make some good money for a 5 year old).

My suggestion on how to handle your gfs 14 year old is to show interest in HER, not just the "how's it going" type question. You said she was working on some blog, did you ask what it was about? I found out with my nephew who is now a teen-ager, he and I have a lot in common, and he likes to talk (when you let him). We didn't really talk about anything, but we found some common ground. I found out later he really enjoyed the conversation, and he told his mom about it. *shrug* All I did was lay on the bed while he talked, but he has opinions on a lot of stuff I would've never thought about at his age. I would suggest you do this with the girl, and find out what she likes to do. If you are planning on marrying the mom at some point, you're going to get the kid too. Take the girl out for something she likes to do ... just because ... especially if it's something you think you'd like to do too. Expect lip from a 14 year old girl too ... that's what they do (it's got something to do with harmones or some such), I've never talked to a woman that said "I was the perfect child to my mother/father, I never talked back or anything", but I have heard one say "I had a mouth on me ... my mom and dad would tear me up, but I still had a mouth".

-T

[old shooter]

I would keep in mind the fact that the 14 yr old had nothing to do with her present situation. She is from a broken home, and all her friends know. They also know that her once saintly mother is now shacking up. Where is the honor here.

Mike

[Larry White]

A little push here, a little nuge there a little pull now and then. Some times with a little force but always with a kind word. Electronic collars( in the wrong hands) have ruined more shooting dogs than they ever fixed. Same stuff works with kids, but unlike dogs, most kids, given a little guideance and time will work it out for themselves.------Larry

[Kimberkid]

if you dont the following, feel free to call me an $%E(*&% and leave it at that, only answering cuz you asked.

+1 on the respect is earned, and you gotta work harder cuz you are the replacement. It isnt fair, but thats still how it is.

Its cool you help out financially, but it is still her house. If the phone is dead, and she doesnt need to use it, why should she put it on the charger? Somewhat selfish? yes, but its still her house and we all want to put ourselves first in our own homes.

We all did this stuff at that age. Maybe we all caught a beating for it, but we all still did it. A little respect isnt too much to ask, but word it that way to her and it will quickly be taken like she doesnt ever show you any respect, which isnt true. She didnt even show you disrespect. She showed lack of respect, and there is a difference. I doubt she considered the phone and cereal box as important points of respect.

Pick your battles wisely. Phone and cereal boxes are what some might consider gimmes. Leave her alone on the little stuff, and she is more likely to listen on important stuff like drugs, boys, and whatnot.

If you're dating and/or living with my mom, your level of education dont matter at all. Any success you have in life is totally meaningless. How you treat me and mom are the only important things. I've known a ton of successful well educated people that I will thank God to never see again. Also known a ton of functionally retarded white trash I wouldnt give up for all the world.

I lost 1/3 of my natural hearing by the time I was 10, for this I ended up with hearing aids until I could learn to pick up what I wasnt hearing with my eyes. Body language means a lot and a lot more at that age. Even if it isnt intentional, it says a lot more than her words ever do.

Dont sweat about the term "shacking up" I totally dig how you meant it and I know how it is to try to make a joke and have it kick you in the backside. But remember, no matter how great a guy you are (and I get the impression u r a good one, just trying to make your life work) you are still putting it to her mom. I dont even like knowing my dad puts it to my mom, aint no way she is ok with it. This doesnt make you a bad guy at all, but it is part of the equation.

Remember that her feelings dont have to be justified or even make sense for her to still feel them.

sorry if i sound like im on a high horse, I dont mean to, but it wasnt that long ago I was a kid.

[Viggen]

Well, you'r not "old school" since your shacked up with the mother.

My guess is that in the girls' way of thinking you have no status or position other than a temporary meal ticket for her mother - somebody who pays to stay. Add on a bad cold, normal teenage moodiness, and there is a real surley package. She is thinking that things aren't the way they ought to be.

[tightloop]

Lots of wisdom here...you can sift thru it when you get time..

From the background info you provided, you are an intelligent, young, ambitious, hard working young man who seems to have some issues with the daughter of the woman you care about..

I don't know you and cannot nor will I judge you....You need to give us a bit more information..What were the circumstances of the woman's divorce and what was the status of the daughter's relationship with her dad ( I assume her biological dad)....How long did you date the lady before you moved into their home? Did you talk to the daughter about your feelings for her mom? If so, did you do it jointly or alone...? What is the status of the mom's relationship with the daughter, good, not so good, bad, or don't care...Do you have long term plans to marry the woman? When? Have you discussed it with the daughter? How does she feel about it.. How long have the man and woman been divorced? Have you made an attempt to get to know and understand the daughter and her situation? Do you know her friends, and they you? Do you include her in most everything you do? Do you operate from the point of view that you are a "family"? Do you go to church together? If not, why not? What are the important issues that the daughter has at the moment...? What are the issues facing her mom? Does the mom love you and want to marry you? If so, good, when are you getting married? If not, MOVE OUT NOW.

I think we can tell you are a stand up guy...and I applaud you for trying to be a good influence on the daughter and a good father figure...I too married a prefab family, two boys 4 and 2..they are now 40 and 38...I am their dad, adopted them...we had some strife, but what family does not? Love them unconditionally...it was not always easy...

Emotionally, you have to be committed for the long haul, and willing to put your feelings aside. 14 yr old people boys or girls do not usually know what they want or need in their lives, that is why God gave them parents, to help them make those decisions..Life is about making decisions and about trying to help your kids make the best ones they can based on the information they have and can get..

You and the lady need to have a sit down talk with the daughter and lay it out for her...Ideally, it would go something like this: 1. I love your mom and she loves me and we are going to be married ( insert date), how do you feel about that...2. Can you accept me as your step dad over the long haul? If not why not? 3. Since we all need to get along, let's jointly make some family rules that help us to do that, (hanging up the dead phone and washing your hands) 4. Since I am going to be your step dad, I want to earn your love and respect, just like you have earn mine...and it will not happen over night, are we ok with that...? 5. I will try to love you and take care of you just like your real dad would, but will never try to replace him in your heart, 'cause I know I cannot..6. There will be times that we will not get along and we will be mad at each other, but it is short term, cause I love you. 7. Till your mom and I get married, I am a guest in your home and I will not give you orders or make you obey me, that is your mom's job...8. After we are married, I will expect you to obey the rules of the house, give me the respect I deserve as your step dad. 9. If you don't feel you can do something I ask of you, we can talk about it. Maybe not at that instant, but we will discuss it like two adults to reach a conclusion..10. I love you and want to get to know you and your friends. I want to be a part of your life for the long haul. I want to earn your love and respect. I want to earn your mom's love and respect, and it is a daily job...I will never lie to you. I will never disrespect you. I will never raise my hand to you. I will treat you both you and your mom the best I can, each day...11. I am only human and I will make mistakes. It would make me happy if you understood this and would work with me to be the best dad I can be...It is a tough job, but with the love and support from you and your mom, I will try each day to make you proud of me. I ask only that you try as hard to do your job as I do mine...12. You can always talk to me, anytime, anyplace, about anything. 13. Please try to understand that I am asking you these things because I love your mom and you and want to be a part of your lives, if you will let me... 14. Is there anything you would like to ask me?

That is just a start...It is tough and gets really tough sometimes..It is a daily struggle...If you love her and her mom, it can be very fulfilling, if you have any doubts, now is the time to leave..

You have NO rights in the house right now..and will have none till you marry her mom and have a talk with the daughter similar to the one I outlined with her mom supporting you each step of the way..

You asked...there it is...It is not easy...Be very certain you want to try to do it...

Good luck..

Tightloop

[GuildSF4]

My suggestion on how to handle your gfs 14 year old is to show interest in HER, not just the "how's it going" type question.

...

Take the girl out for something she likes to do ... just because ... especially if it's something you think you'd like to do too.

+1 on this. Converse with them, play games with them...

I married into a family lady with 2 kids (had 3 of my own at the time also). Mixed family or live-in is hard on the kids also, they don't know how to handle it. Best thing my wife and I found was to agree on rules and how discipline was to be handled. Still took years before her girls accepted me as Dad (they would listen, but it's not the same thing). The best fathers day gift yet was when my oldest step daughter said "Happy Fathers day", I know it sounds corny but one day you may understand.

[Sam]

Wink,

[JFD]

I have to agree with Viggen and many others. The 14 Y/O has more right to bitch about the phone or cereal than you do. Most likely she simply views you as a "temporary situation" that must be put up with.

[old shooter]

Wink,

+1

mike

[blackdragon]

At this point, Don't want to touch this with a ten foot pole!

Ivan

[North]

Get serious, get married.

Or just shut the heck up.