Limited Optics - Minor Only vs. Major/Minor scoring

[RJH]

4 minutes ago, shred said:

125 is left over from the days when people shot IPSC with 2" snubby .38 Specials.  IMO it could use a revisit based on actual factory 9mm PFs. 

 

 

I wouldn't have figured a 2 in 38 would make 125 with most factory loads. A lot of the factory 38s I've shot out of 4-in guns don't even make 125. Doesn't IDPA have something like 105 power factor for snub nose or something like that? I can't remember I'm not a big IDPA shooter

 

As far as USPSA, if they revisited it I bet they wouldn't end up far off of where it is now. By the time you shoot a large amount of off the shelf 115 and 124 grain ammo out of a bunch of guns with a barrel of the length of about a Glock 19, deduct a little bit of power factor for oddball rounds so that people can always use off the shelf ammo, I bet you end up at 125. 130 max. But revisiting it would it hurt anything, and I wouldn't be against it

[whan]

I almost went subminor shooting blazer brass 115gr 9mm out of a 5" 1911 at a major. 125.9PF. Granted, Chrono was low for everyone that day, but it seems normal factory range ammo can sometimes be close to that 125pf floor

[shred]

8 minutes ago, RJH said:

 

I wouldn't have figured a 2 in 38 would make 125 with most factory loads. A lot of the factory 38s I've shot out of 4-in guns don't even make 125. 

Yeah, you were supposed to shoot "proper defensive loads" in those days (probably 158gr LSWCHPs or whatever), not light target loads, because Practical.

[deerslayer]

11 minutes ago, whan said:

I almost went subminor shooting blazer brass 115gr 9mm out of a 5" 1911 at a major. 125.9PF. Granted, Chrono was low for everyone that day, but it seems normal factory range ammo can sometimes be close to that 125pf floor

This.

 

Monkeying with minor PF sounds like a horrible idea when there is factory ammo that barely makes minor.  Increasing minor when the right ammo is harder to find and expensive when it is found sounds like a great way to discourage participation.  

[motosapiens]

37 minutes ago, shred said:

125 is left over from the days when people shot IPSC with 2" snubby .38 Specials.  IMO it could use a revisit based on actual factory 9mm PFs. 

 

factory defensive rounds? or bulk factory ammo that people actually shoot. Seems like alot of it is not much hotter than 125-130.

[CHA-LEE]

This thread is funny to me because people think that trading ideas on forums like this will somehow translate to changing the minds of people in charge of USPSA. USPSA can't even be bothered with effectively maintaining High Hit Factors for their Classifiers and they have ALL OF THE DATA already. Do you really think they are going to put much effort into figuring out what the best approach will be for a new Division? Or continue to use the existing process of spinning a proverbial wheel of fortune and whatever it lands on ends up being the decision.

 

Lazy people will continue to do Lazy stuff.... That is the pure definition of human nature.

[CHA-LEE]

As for the PCSL "Kilo" targets, they basically nullify most of the Major PF points advantage because the A-Zone goes from the belly of the target all the way up through the head and also have the K-Zone which is an automatic 2 Alpha. On a normal USPSA target it has a bunch of C-Zone through that same swath of vertical portion of the target. When you Partial up a USPSA target, most of the time, this pushes up the meat of the target to shoot at into the neck area which is predominately C-Zone. That is a target presentation scenario where it becomes a significant shooting pace difference between Major and Minor PF. Major PF divisions can chain saw at the C-Zone neck area of a partial target and not get murdered by points down. You can't do that when shooting Minor PF or you will get killed by the number of C-Zone hits.

 

That very common Partial Target scenario where you can bleed a bunch of points is eliminated when using the PCSL Kilo targets because there isn't a C-Zone in the neck area. The Outlaw matches that I have shot using PCSL Kilo targets basically eliminates most of the Major PF Scoring advantage you have.

 

In the context of USPSA, they could change the scoring zone of the standard USPSA target to have the A-Zone go all the way up from the body through the head just like the PCSL targets. This would in effect achieve the same goal of increasing the shooting aggressiveness on the target because the A's are "Easier" to capture. But then it would also apply to all minor divisions.

[MHicks]

Is there major/minor scoring in some PCSL divisions?

[RJH]

7 minutes ago, MHicks said:

Is there major/minor scoring in some PCSL divisions?

 

Nope