tbev Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 So a friend and I started shooting 3 gun and USPSA matches this year. We figure getting a good minor load going would help. Were both shooting 5ish inch pistols (Glock and Sig). Right now were starting out with 147 grain slugs, Vector BA9 powder. We've managed to get a load that is shooting on average about 130-135 PF with a 95% confidence interval that keeps us from dropping below minor. Also it seems to cycle well. Are there other things we should consider? Different powder or different slugs? I'm new to all of this PF loading so I figure as light as possible is ideal. I'm not super comfortable because we've gone up to 4.1 gr of powder to get there and their loading manual calls for a max of 3.8gr of powder for a 145gr slug. Around 3.5-3.8gr of powder didn't even have enough juice to cycle my P320 Legion with the light spring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GigG Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 You are reading their load chart wrong. [g] is grams. [grs] is grains. 4.9 GRAINS is their starting load. and 6.2 GRAINS is the max load. Reload (.40 Smith & Wesson / Ba9) CIP RULES Length [mm]21.59Pressure [bar]2250 BULLET TypeHP-XTPWeight [g]8.70Weight [grs]135 PRIMER PrimerSmall Pistol POWDER PowderBa9 STARTING LOAD Weight [g]0.32Weight [grs]4.9Velocity [m/s]319Velocity [fps]1042 MAXIMUM LOAD Weight [g]0.40Weight [grs]6.2Velocity [m/s]357Velocity [fps]1172 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Watson Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 He said 9mm where a 147 grain bullet + 3.8 grains Ba9 is indeed Vectan's maximum in the chart at Graf's. I would be sorry to have to overload my ammo to make Minor. I use HP38 and am well below the maximum for 124 gr bullets but at the maximum for 147. Relatively fast powders like that get spiky with heavy bullets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinister4 Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 147 blue bullets, use n320, tightgroup, american select or the like you will get 130 pf super easy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 A 147 with with 3.5 of VV N320 is the sweet spot. You'd be hard pressed to find a softer, more accurate load. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GigG Posted October 21, 2022 Share Posted October 21, 2022 2 hours ago, Jim Watson said: He said 9mm where a 147 grain bullet + 3.8 grains Ba9 is indeed Vectan's maximum in the chart at Graf's. I was looking at the Vectan chart. They didn't even have a load for 147. Just 135, 155, 170, 180 & 200. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RudyVey Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 17 hours ago, GigG said: I was looking at the Vectan chart. They didn't even have a load for 147. Just 135, 155, 170, 180 & 200. The chart I found listed 145 grains as max weight for 9 mm, I did not see anything above (you list 155-200), and the start load is 3.1 grains and the max is 3.8 grains for the 145 bullet. But, there might be other charts out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddc Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 On 10/21/2022 at 9:02 AM, GigG said: You are reading their load chart wrong. [g] is grams. [grs] is grains. 4.9 GRAINS is their starting load. and 6.2 GRAINS is the max load. Reload (.40 Smith & Wesson / Ba9) CIP RULES Length [mm]21.59Pressure [bar]2250 BULLET TypeHP-XTPWeight [g]8.70Weight [grs]135 PRIMER PrimerSmall Pistol POWDER PowderBa9 STARTING LOAD Weight [g]0.32Weight [grs]4.9Velocity [m/s]319Velocity [fps]1042 MAXIMUM LOAD Weight [g]0.40Weight [grs]6.2Velocity [m/s]357Velocity [fps]1172 What does a load for 40s&w have to do with a load for 9mm? You are giving the OP misleading information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HesedTech Posted October 22, 2022 Share Posted October 22, 2022 (edited) 21 hours ago, GigG said: I was looking at the Vectan chart. They didn't even have a load for 147. Just 135, 155, 170, 180 & 200. Welcome to the world of reloading. The charts are only for reference and never for precision. What you need is find the OAL which works with the bullet and gun combination you're using. Then starting with a min load, yes 135 (will be on high side) or 155 (will be on low side) will work, build until you get the velocity you need. If you get to max recommended load before reaching your desired velocity get a different powder. For 9mm and 147s these work: Titegroup, Win 244, N320, Sport Pistol, Clean Shot or something in a similar burn range and will drop consistently loads. Read this forum and stick with the powders most use and recommend; saves a lot of experimentation time. If Vectan BA-9 is all you have then it's probably close to VV 340 loads or AA5, however, both of those are slower burn rates than I like for 9mm loads. According to this:http://natoreloading.com/VectanBA9/ you will be doing some experimentation to find a load that works with the heavier bullets. Enjoy the journey. Edited October 22, 2022 by HesedTech Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leezway Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 On 10/21/2022 at 2:33 PM, GrumpyOne said: A 147 with with 3.5 of VV N320 is the sweet spot. You'd be hard pressed to find a softer, more accurate load. Mr Grumpyone, did you happen to have any chrono data for this load? I just recently picked up Vv N320 and wanted a load for 147s polycoated… my current load for them has been 3.5 grains of Sport pistol with 1.130 coal, it’s a great load… light and accurate, but like anything else I’m always looking for something better… I understand that Vv N320 and Alliant Sport pistol are very similar powders…. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOGRIDER Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 As @GrumpyOnestated, 3.5g of N320 behind a quality JHP will yield awesome results in the right pistol............ Example from my S2 Orange: Average FPS 902 (10 shots) Spread 13 SD 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOGRIDER Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 @Leezway 3.3g N320 behind a Blue Bullets 147g gave similar accuracy results as above......... Average FPS: 917 Spread: 25 SD: 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 1 hour ago, Leezway said: Mr Grumpyone, did you happen to have any chrono data for this load? I just recently picked up Vv N320 and wanted a load for 147s polycoated… my current load for them has been 3.5 grains of Sport pistol with 1.130 coal, it’s a great load… light and accurate, but like anything else I’m always looking for something better… I understand that Vv N320 and Alliant Sport pistol are very similar powders…. The last time I chronoed it, several years ago, Precision Delta 147 FMJ, 1.150 911fps...I don't remember what the SD was, but was very low. I'm not overly concerned about SD, as long as it is accurate, which it is very. It is the same load I use in my Scorpion, attached is a 25 yard group with the Scorpion. I have the chrono results from the Batttle in the Bluegrass one year somewhere. I do remember that out of the ones they shot, there was only 3 fps difference between them...at that was mixed brass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leezway Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 Thank you very much….. I have some 147 TMJ from Speer that should work just fine…. Thanks again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsbygiz Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 8 hours ago, HOGRIDER said: @Leezway 3.3g N320 behind a Blue Bullets 147g gave similar accuracy results as above......... Average FPS: 917 Spread: 25 SD: 7 So I really new at this, but why do the blue bullets take less powder? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrumpyOne Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 2 hours ago, Gunsbygiz said: So I really new at this, but why do the blue bullets take less powder? They are coated lead, not jacketed. Lead and coated lead bullets take less powder to push down the barrel than copper jacketed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PhilTerry Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 It's all about friction! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsbygiz Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 (edited) Thank you for the info! For USPSA distance targets… would it be safe to say they are accurate enough for an average shooter? Edited October 23, 2022 by Gunsbygiz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ddc Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 1 hour ago, Gunsbygiz said: Thank you for the info! For USPSA distance targets… would it be safe to say they are accurate enough for an average shooter? Yes, they are one of the commonly used options. Having said that realize that guns and barrels can like (or dislike) some combinations more than others. So you can't really make a blanket statement for every single gun but in general Blue Bullets have a very solid reputation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsbygiz Posted October 23, 2022 Share Posted October 23, 2022 1 hour ago, ddc said: Yes, they are one of the commonly used options. Having said that realize that guns and barrels can like (or dislike) some combinations more than others. So you can't really make a blanket statement for every single gun but in general Blue Bullets have a very solid reputation. Thank you very much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DirtyB Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 On 10/22/2022 at 7:46 PM, HOGRIDER said: @Leezway 3.3g N320 behind a Blue Bullets 147g gave similar accuracy results as above......... Average FPS: 917 Spread: 25 SD: 7 Flat points or round nose? OAL? I'm going to load a couple K of BB 147 flat points, and the local shop has some N320. I have a whole jug of W231, but seems it might be a little too fast burning for the combo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunsbygiz Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 Those are great groups at 20 yards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOGRIDER Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 13 minutes ago, DirtyB said: Flat points or round nose? OAL? I'm going to load a couple K of BB 147 flat points, and the local shop has some N320. I have a whole jug of W231, but seems it might be a little too fast burning for the combo. OAL? Check both (all) pistols that you’ll be using this load in for optimal OAL! Load for the shortest one. I like ~1.120” OAL but YOUR GUN(s) may need something different. My powder charge is displayed on the target above, but start out below that and work up to what your pistol likes! Safety above everything else when developing a load! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOGRIDER Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 @DirtyB This applies to most pistols: https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=103620.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HOGRIDER Posted October 24, 2022 Share Posted October 24, 2022 19 minutes ago, Gunsbygiz said: Those are great groups at 20 yards Thanks! The Ransom Rest is the contributing factor in these tests! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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