Shadow 2 vs P10F Competition. Is heavier better?

[TheChef1]

So I got my first shadow 2 right when they first came out (2016? 17?) I've loved it ever since lots of cajun parts and modified lok grips and I felt for years like it was the best production pistol available. Fast forward to about 6 months ago I wanted to dabble in CO as no one seems to shoot production anymore. I was going to get another slide milled but found a ridiculous deal on an S2 OR with an SRO so I just bought that. Spent a bunch of money on getting mags setup more cajun parts lok brass grips and I thought I had the ultimate CO gun.

Work has been busy so ive only shot 2 match with it and as expected I did see a boost in scores and overall rankings which is not surprising im sure that will just improve as I get more used to shooting the dot vs irons. 

 

A couple weeks ago I saw a good deal on a p10F comp which I was eyeing for awhile as a HD gun. Got it liked it found a good deal on a second one (thanks Jeff O) and picked that up as well. decided to set up 1 for HD as planned and one as a CO. The CO one has a SRO, tungsten guide rod, Apex Trigger, overwatch striker and I packed the backstrap with tungsten shot and putty which really helped balance the gun and overall I added about 5 oz to the gun and it feels great. 

 

So I took the 3 of them out to a local indoor range to zero the dots and run some drills. What I found I found is that the p10 thats setup as a game gun seemed to be as fast maybe faster than the shadow 2. the battery was dead in my timer so unfortunately dont have data to back it right now. I dont have a holster for the p10s yet so couldn't run anything from the draw but I feel like the lighter gun will be quicker to draw and get on target maybe even more so late in the match due to fatigue. I ran a lot of table start drills both loaded and unloaded and it felt like I was getting the p10 up and on target faster than the S2. Unloaded start the p10 was definitely faster the slide size and slide cuts definitely helped and the mags seem to go in more smoothly. The trigger on the S2 is better but didn't seem to make much of a difference I ran both pretty quick. Transitions seemed faster and easier with the P10. The S2 may soak up the recoil better but not by much honestly I didn't feel the dot settling on target faster on either. both ran reliable with s#!t ammo as far as I remember. Overall the p10 manipulates really well, working the slide is effortless, mag release is in a great spot all things I love about the S2 also but I think the P10 edges it out. 

 

I'm going to have to run more drills with the timer when I get back from this work trip and see if the timer confirms. Anyone else have anything similar happen where a "downgrade" of a pistol runs better for them? would I be crazy to can the S2 and run the P10?

 

 

[bimmer1980]

On 8/11/2022 at 12:59 AM, TheChef1 said:

So I got my first shadow 2 right when they first came out (2016? 17?) I've loved it ever since lots of cajun parts and modified lok grips and I felt for years like it was the best production pistol available. Fast forward to about 6 months ago I wanted to dabble in CO as no one seems to shoot production anymore. I was going to get another slide milled but found a ridiculous deal on an S2 OR with an SRO so I just bought that. Spent a bunch of money on getting mags setup more cajun parts lok brass grips...

 

To me, my P320 xfive handles easier with the light grip than with the heavy txg grip. Draws, manipulations, transitions etc. just need less muscle. I also can´t find a huge difference in recoil or let´s say muzzle climb or softness when shooting stiff loaded factory ammo. 

When i´m shooting soft ammo, that´s when the heavy grip starts to show an advantage in my eyes. I don´t know why.   

[Johnny_Chimpo]

On 8/10/2022 at 6:59 PM, TheChef1 said:

 would I be crazy to can the S2 and run the P10?

 

There's only one way to find out.

[TheChef1]

On 8/16/2022 at 7:00 AM, Johnny_Chimpo said:

 

There's only one way to find out.

Yeah when I get back home I need to do some timer work and see what the hits and timer tells me.

[TheChef1]

On 8/16/2022 at 6:23 AM, bimmer1980 said:

To me, my P320 xfive handles easier with the light grip than with the heavy txg grip. Draws, manipulations, transitions etc. just need less muscle. I also can´t find a huge difference in recoil or let´s say muzzle climb or softness when shooting stiff loaded factory ammo. 

When i´m shooting soft ammo, that´s when the heavy grip starts to show an advantage in my eyes. I don´t know why.   

That’s kind of how I’m feeling now. The S2 is a heavy bitch and it definitely takes effort to move it around. 

[Johnny_Chimpo]

1 hour ago, TheChef1 said:

Yeah when I get back home I need to do some timer work and see what the hits and timer tells me.

 

I'm kinda rekindling an affair with my P-10F/SRO combo.

[broadside72]

I run both actually. A Bull Shadow 2 with SRO and a P10F with SRO. They are different animals for sure. I like them both and they behave differently as expected. The heavy BS2 (with brass palm swells no less) has very little recoil so the dot moves less and I can run splits about 0.05 faster on average than the P10F. But the draw is faster and transitions can be faster with the polymer gun. 

 

I know its hurting me not sticking with one or the other but I honestly can't decide what I am going to run as I really like both. I change out every 3-4 months. 

All you can do is run some matches with one and then switch to the other and see what you do better with. 

[2MoreChains]

I have and shot both in Carry Optics.  P10C w/ red dot was my first foray into the world of CO.  It tasted good, so I sent my Shadow 2 off to be milled (this was pre OR ready in both models, and also when we had to stay below 45 oz).  Kept shooting the P10C in the meantime.  P10C is light and fast, 4” bbl didn’t hold me back since I was shooting a dot.  Fun gun, now is HD and sometimes carry gun.  

 

Been shooting the Shadow 2 w/ SRO combo for the last 4-5 years. Love it.  Heavier gun for sure @ 44.1 oz, which IMO is the sweet spot having shot 1911s for a long time.  Recoils softer, so splits are faster than the polymer gun.  Transitions… hard to say.  But I shoot more As with the Shadow 2 than the P10C.  

 

OK, so for full disclosure, I also got a LTT Beretta last fall as a ‘tweener gun @ 36-ish ounces to see if a lighter gun with a fantastic DA/SA trigger would be the goldilocks combo.  Or maybe I just wanted to buy the LTT.  The struggle is real.  

 

 

 

 

[TheChef1]

On 8/17/2022 at 10:55 PM, Johnny_Chimpo said:

 

I'm kinda rekindling an affair with my P-10F/SRO combo.

Yeah that’s what I have on the comp. Super nice combo. I like the comp for the longer barrel and top slide serrations. I run the extended slide release like a mini *thumb rest [generic]* and I think that helps a bit. Not to mention with the tungsten guide rod and tungsten putty/shot combo in the grip it has a good heft to it. 
 

https://imgur.com/a/bbaJxkn

[TheChef1]

On 8/18/2022 at 11:25 AM, broadside72 said:

I run both actually. A Bull Shadow 2 with SRO and a P10F with SRO. They are different animals for sure. I like them both and they behave differently as expected. The heavy BS2 (with brass palm swells no less) has very little recoil so the dot moves less and I can run splits about 0.05 faster on average than the P10F. But the draw is faster and transitions can be faster with the polymer gun. 

 

I know its hurting me not sticking with one or the other but I honestly can't decide what I am going to run as I really like both. I change out every 3-4 months. 

All you can do is run some matches with one and then switch to the other and see what you do better with. 

Yeah I guess that’s the big question, can you save more time with faster splits or faster everything else? I will say I find myself enjoying dry firing the lighter gun. 

[TheChef1]

On 8/18/2022 at 1:56 PM, 2MoreChains said:

I have and shot both in Carry Optics.  P10C w/ red dot was my first foray into the world of CO.  It tasted good, so I sent my Shadow 2 off to be milled (this was pre OR ready in both models, and also when we had to stay below 45 oz).  Kept shooting the P10C in the meantime.  P10C is light and fast, 4” bbl didn’t hold me back since I was shooting a dot.  Fun gun, now is HD and sometimes carry gun.  

 

Been shooting the Shadow 2 w/ SRO combo for the last 4-5 years. Love it.  Heavier gun for sure @ 44.1 oz, which IMO is the sweet spot having shot 1911s for a long time.  Recoils softer, so splits are faster than the polymer gun.  Transitions… hard to say.  But I shoot more As with the Shadow 2 than the P10C.  

 

OK, so for full disclosure, I also got a LTT Beretta last fall as a ‘tweener gun @ 36-ish ounces to see if a lighter gun with a fantastic DA/SA trigger would be the goldilocks combo.  Or maybe I just wanted to buy the LTT.  The struggle is real.  

 

 

 

 

Yeah I tried to get the p10 as heavy as possible and I think it’s a good weight right now. Going to shoot a match next weekend with it and see how it runs.

[NoKimberDave]

I got a P-10F OR and put an SRO on it. Haven't used my TSO since. 

I'm surprised how much I dig this gun. Might get the F competition at some point.

 

[Raz22582]

Stonebridge gun works p10f carry optics package the only gun I wish I didn’t sell. Prolly going to have to another one now lol

[TheChef1]

On 8/22/2022 at 3:21 PM, NoKimberDave said:

I got a P-10F OR and put an SRO on it. Haven't used my TSO since. 

I'm surprised how much I dig this gun. Might get the F competition at some point.

 

If you can find a good deal on the CR I really recommend it. I dont think I would pay $999 for it but I got mine for around 750-850 and I think its worth it. The longer barrel and better slide cuts along with the better barrel design plus upgraded small parts definitely make it worth it.

 

19 hours ago, Raz22582 said:

Stonebridge gun works p10f carry optics package the only gun I wish I didn’t sell. Prolly going to have to another one now lol

Do it man! or just wait for a good deal on the Comp ready and build it out yourself.

[Tip3008]

On 8/21/2022 at 10:12 PM, TheChef1 said:

Yeah I guess that’s the big question, can you save more time with faster splits or faster everything else? I will say I find myself enjoying dry firing the lighter gun. 

The answer to that question is pretty well known honestly.. the saying goes “Splits for show, transitions for dough” meaning: fast splits sound and look really cool and make for a great video and all…but the real money maker is and always has been in transitions for top shooters.. that being said, a full grown adult male should not be losing any time in their transition speed over 10 ounces.. it’s all in the technique and shooters ability brother! 
 

edit: and movement of course being king to both of the aforementioned..

Edited November 4, 2022 by Tip3008

[rowdyb]

On 8/21/2022 at 9:12 PM, TheChef1 said:

Yeah I guess that’s the big question, can you save more time with faster splits or faster everything else? I will say I find myself enjoying dry firing the lighter gun. 

Go to minute 2:30 and get your answer with real numbers derived from real shooters.

 

[45 Raven]

1 hour ago, rowdyb said:

Go to minute 2:30 and get your answer with real numbers derived from real shooters.

 

Rowdy:  Great information and presented in a clear, concise, easily understood format.  Thanks for taking the time to share!

[TheChef1]

13 hours ago, rowdyb said:

Go to minute 2:30 and get your answer with real numbers derived from real shooters.

 

nice information there thanks.

[Bakerjd]

16 hours ago, rowdyb said:

Go to minute 2:30 and get your answer with real numbers derived from real shooters.

 

I needed this video about 3 years ago. Lol. Excellent way of showing it and breaking down everything. 

 

As for heavy vs lighter for CO. I like a heavier gun. I've tried both multiple times and always go back to the heavy guns. My current ones are right about 50oz. Transitions are about .3, splits, .18, DTFS 1.3. 

 

And just because I'm proud of it I have a verified at CO nats Bill Drill of 2.06 all alphas. That was with a 54oz CZA01Ld.

[rowdyb]

I like to describe it to new shooters as determining what style or strength do you want to use?

With a light gun you better br prepared to have an amazing grip. With a heavy gun you better be prepared to use more effort in accelerating and slowing that mass. 

You can do the same things with them, it just a matter if how you do it and if you have, or develop, what it takes to make the most of each type of gun.

[DeepFried]

Chef, it’s been a while. What did you decide? 

[Twilk73]

On 4/10/2023 at 12:02 PM, Seoderus said:

Chef, it’s been a while. What did you decide? 

 

On 8/10/2022 at 6:59 PM, TheChef1 said:

So I got my first shadow 2 right when they first came out (2016? 17?) I've loved it ever since lots of cajun parts and modified lok grips and I felt for years like it was the best production pistol available. Fast forward to about 6 months ago I wanted to dabble in CO as no one seems to shoot production anymore. I was going to get another slide milled but found a ridiculous deal on an S2 OR with an SRO so I just bought that. Spent a bunch of money on getting mags setup more cajun parts lok brass grips and I thought I had the ultimate CO gun.

Work has been busy so ive only shot 2 match with it and as expected I did see a boost in scores and overall rankings which is not surprising im sure that will just improve as I get more used to shooting the dot vs irons. 

 

A couple weeks ago I saw a good deal on a p10F comp which I was eyeing for awhile as a HD gun. Got it liked it found a good deal on a second one (thanks Jeff O) and picked that up as well. decided to set up 1 for HD as planned and one as a CO. The CO one has a SRO, tungsten guide rod, Apex Trigger, overwatch striker and I packed the backstrap with tungsten shot and putty which really helped balance the gun and overall I added about 5 oz to the gun and it feels great. 

 

So I took the 3 of them out to a local indoor range to zero the dots and run some drills. What I found I found is that the p10 thats setup as a game gun seemed to be as fast maybe faster than the shadow 2. the battery was dead in my timer so unfortunately dont have data to back it right now. I dont have a holster for the p10s yet so couldn't run anything from the draw but I feel like the lighter gun will be quicker to draw and get on target maybe even more so late in the match due to fatigue. I ran a lot of table start drills both loaded and unloaded and it felt like I was getting the p10 up and on target faster than the S2. Unloaded start the p10 was definitely faster the slide size and slide cuts definitely helped and the mags seem to go in more smoothly. The trigger on the S2 is better but didn't seem to make much of a difference I ran both pretty quick. Transitions seemed faster and easier with the P10. The S2 may soak up the recoil better but not by much honestly I didn't feel the dot settling on target faster on either. both ran reliable with s#!t ammo as far as I remember. Overall the p10 manipulates really well, working the slide is effortless, mag release is in a great spot all things I love about the S2 also but I think the P10 edges it out. 

 

I'm going to have to run more drills with the timer when I get back from this work trip and see if the timer confirms. Anyone else have anything similar happen where a "downgrade" of a pistol runs better for them? would I be crazy to can the S2 and run the P10?

 

 

What are your thoughts after all This time. 

[TheChef1]

On 4/10/2023 at 12:02 PM, Seoderus said:

Chef, it’s been a while. What did you decide? 

 

16 hours ago, Twilk73 said:

 

What are your thoughts after all This time. 

So I’ve settled on Rivals actually. Originally was shooting the polymer ones for a few months but got the steel a couple months ago and it’s a really nice middle ground in weight. I love it and have a second on the way. 
 

the shadow 2 shoots a little softer but IMO both the polymer and steel do absolutely everything else better. Bigger magwell for reloads, better slide cuts for and unloaded starts or clearing malfunctions. I think the lighter weight makes be able to draw and transition it slightly faster. When you upgrade the trigger it’s just about as good as the S2 in single action but no need for a DA first shot.

 

i also feel like the shadow 2 was hiding some inefficiencies in my grip and a few months with the plastic gun really helped with that. 

[HesedTech]

On 5/29/2023 at 10:01 AM, TheChef1 said:

also feel like the shadow 2 was hiding some inefficiencies in my grip and a few months with the plastic gun really helped with that. 

I get what you’re trying to say, but it doesn’t make sense. It doesn’t mean you’re inefficient if you shoot well with the Shadow 2 and then adjust to get same performance with another gun. It just means different techniques are required for different guns. 
 

[TheChef1]

2 hours ago, HesedTech said:

I get what you’re trying to say, but it doesn’t make sense. It doesn’t mean you’re inefficient if you shoot well with the Shadow 2 and then adjust to get same performance with another gun. It just means different techniques are required for different guns. 
 

basically what im saying Is my grip wasn't great but the S2 was more forgiving. The polymer rival definitely didn't shoot as soft and forced me to look at improving my grip. Sure that could definitely be transferred back to the shadow but I dont want to go back to the shadow.