Holosun series red dots

[Johnny_Chimpo]

2 hours ago, Dirty_J said:

Have you used the auto-adjust RMR’s with a WML or handheld in a dark room before? Done low light training with it? 
 

They aren’t remotely acceptable for defensive use. 
 

Get a manual adjust and deal with the bloom as you have to. It’s better than a washed out auto-adjust dot when you need it. 

 

You can't use a WML to PID a threat because you'd be pointing a firearm at someone that you aren't sure is a threat.  You need to PID a threat before you point a handgun at a person (or you're almost certainly committing a felony) and if there's enough light to ID the threat there's enough light to put a red dot on it and shoot it.

 

My handhelds don't wash it out.  I don't need a car headlight to ID someone in the dark.

 

Low light training has nothing to do with any of this.  Legal training does.

 

 

 

Edited December 4, 2022 by Johnny_Chimpo

[Johnny_Chimpo]

On 7/14/2022 at 11:13 AM, RePete said:

I've been running a 507C X2 since September and it's shake and wake feature is great.

 

It can be off in the holster and on before the draw is completed.

 

It's on all the time unless you stay motionless all day

[RJH]

This thread got entertaining

[Uomu]

9 hours ago, Johnny_Chimpo said:

So many people fall for the Holosun bulls#!t......

Before buying SCS I ve read and seen lot of pro review around internet. None was against it.

After send it back, I want to find if I m alone in this problems, and I ve remained about my account here.

So, I don t recommend SCS or the old TV shape Holosun enclosed. I have only dry fire practice, but for me it was enough.

 

 

[Dirty_J]

You can use a WML to blind/control someone after a PID and before a trigger press. Your auto-adjust RMR will leave you with an invisible dot. 
 

Go get some reps in the dark. That RMR will be listed for sale here shortly. 

[RePete]

On 12/3/2022 at 10:04 PM, Johnny_Chimpo said:

 

It's on all the time unless you stay motionless all day

I don't care, batteries are cheap + the solar panel.

[Racinready300ex]

On 12/3/2022 at 7:21 PM, Johnny_Chimpo said:

So many people fall for the Holosun bulls#!t......

 

Where to start?

• 2 MOA dots are useful in rifles and shotguns, beyond stupid in pistols.
• The donut and donut + dot reticle just suck your focus to them, not to where it needs to be.  At least for me YMMV
• Shake awake feature is useful only on a bedstand pistol.  Your optic will be ALWAYS on if it's in your holster as you will never stand still long enough for the optic to turn off.  RTFM.
• The solar panel is somewhat useful on a pistol that is mostly exposed to the sun.  Completely useless on a pistol that is concealed on you or in your car's glovebox/center console
• They need the shake awake and solar panel to stretch its tiny battery's life to be anywhere close to a CR 2032 that Trijicon uses.
• The auto brightness adjust is completely, utterly useless as it never reacts quickly enough
• They're made in communist china

The RMRs that live on my defensive pistols are on 24/7/365 for years on end.  I keep them on auto brightness mode and they self adjust incredibly fast, almost intuitively.  Because they auto dim when they're under my shirt or in the center console the batteries last, and last, and last.  When I finally change the battery, the sight is within one or two clicks from zero.  The 6.5 MOA dot is awesome and lets me focus on the target effortlessly.  Last but certainly not least, they are made in the United States of America.

 

I know a few GM's in the area that prefer small dots, myself included so to say beyond stupid might be a stretch.

 

Shake awake is kind of nice, I put the gun in the safe or case it'll turn itself off.

 

I once shot a whole match running on just the solar panel. It was a pcc and was bagged when not in use so it wasn't getting a charge between stages. It kept blinking at me and I couldn't figure out why. Turned out I had the batter in upside down. But, yeah if you put the battery in right it's not really something you're going to need. If you're using it and it starts blinking at you, probably time to change the battery.

 

I agree, not really a fan of the circle or their auto brightness. So far I haven't really liked anyone's auto adjust I've tried though. I seem to tend to like my dot brighter than it thinks I should.

[Johnny_Chimpo]

On 12/4/2022 at 3:50 PM, Dirty_J said:

 Your auto-adjust RMR will leave you with an invisible dot. 
 

Go get some reps in the dark. That RMR will be listed for sale here shortly. 

 

LOL  I doubt it.

 

https://pistol-forum.com/showthread.php?51525-RMR-RM06-vs-RM07&p=1317920&viewfull=1#post1317920

 

As for your tactical advice, I'll pass on it.  I get it from much better sources, unless you happen to be a 14 yr State Police SWAT veteran which is who I listen to.

Edited December 6, 2022 by Johnny_Chimpo

[Dirty_J]

Yeah. We all know LEO’s (even SWAT) are the foremost experts on firearms and gear. It’s kinda like being a gold medalist at the special Olympics. 
 

The foremost MRDS experts that are training LEO’s for a living won’t touch the RMR07. 
 

“For practical law enforcement use, it is important that the proper method of operation and dot size are chosen. With the 24-hour need for optic use in LE, the best method of operation is the adjustable model RMR. Auto adjust models and dual illumination models do not perform well under varied lighting conditions or when used in mesopic/photopic light in conjunction with a weapon light or handheld light. In dual illumination models, the light will overpower and wash out the aiming reticle. In auto adjust models, the photoreceptor cells are confused by the presence of extreme contrasting light and will not adjust to provide a bright dot. Manual adjust models allow officers to set brightness based on time of day, or conditions. Officers may also choose a specific setting that works well in all possible lighting environments.”
 

https://www.sagedynamics.org/_files/ugd/7dc128_65844d9baead41afab8bfabb23e912fa.pdf

 

Get out and get the low light reps for yourself. 

Edited December 7, 2022 by Dirty_J

[Uomu]

On 12/6/2022 at 10:43 PM, Racinready300ex said:

 

I know a few GM's in the area that prefer small dots, myself included so to say beyond stupid might be a stretch.

For advanced shooters the 2-3 MOA is better than 5-9. I ve tried many red dot brands from 2 to 6.5 MOA and most convenient for me is RMR 3.25 with partial co witness sights on SD and SRO 5 on competition one, without cow...

As I have some years of intensive iron sights and red dot practice, I index the 2 MOA on little Holosum SCS almost as quickly as on RMR.

It is paramount how quickly and consistent we are conducting the pistol into the point we want to shoot and then looking again there or to the next point to shoot....of course posture, grip, movements, mindset and some luck 

 

[usmc1974]

Maybe sometimes I'm a little slow to learn. But I went to a holosun 407 with the green dot and WOW so much better love it.

[OPENB]

I have a 507C-GR, a 407C-GR, and a 407K with a 5moa dot. The one I wish they made is a 407A-GR. The 407A is a Palmetto State Armory exclusive as I understand it. It is a dot-only reticle, without the solar panel on top, and has a 3moa dot. Put the 5moa green dot in it, at $179, and I'd buy 5 right now.

My competition dots are SRO's with 5moa dots, and a Deltapoint Pro with the 6moa dot.

Holosun 3MOA Shake Awake Red Dot Pistol Sight | Palmetto State Armory

Edited December 21, 2022 by OPENB

[Racinready300ex]

9 minutes ago, OPENB said:

I have a 507C-GR, a 407C-GR, and a 407K with a 5moa dot. The one I wish they made is a 407A-GR. The 407A is a Palmetto State Armory exclusive as I understand it. It is a dot-only reticle, without the solar panel on top, and has a 3moa dot. Put the 5moa green dot in it, at $179, and I'd buy 5 right now.

My competition dots are SRO's with 5moa dots, and a Deltapoint Pro with the 6moa dot.

Holosun 3MOA Shake Awake Red Dot Pistol Sight | Palmetto State Armory

 

Damn I didn't know about that one, I like 3 moa and at 179 that's a hard optic to beat. 

[OPENB]

1 hour ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

Damn I didn't know about that one, I like 3 moa and at 179 that's a hard optic to beat. 

I didn't either until recently when I got an email from them that they were on sale. Basically a Trijicon RM06, 50,000 battery life, adjustable intensity, for $179. I have a Type 1 RM01, non-adjustable 3.25moa dot. First time we qualified in low light, no matter what flashlight technique I tried, Harries, FBI, whatever, the dot completely washed out and disappeared. I can use it in my current indoor job, but I would not use a non-adjustable intensity dot in a low light/no light/flash light enviroment.

[Twilk73]

On 7/13/2022 at 12:45 PM, Johnny_Chimpo said:

 

The only people turning their dots on or off or "putting them to sleep" are open shooters using the old archaic C Mores with abysmal battery life.

 

The covers have nothing to do with battery life.  Some are to protect the unit from dust to keep the lens clean, others just cover the front of the lens to force the user to focus on the target and not on the dot. 

 

Holoun red dots are gimmicky and offer no real value.  Their reticles are IMO terrible.  The 2 MOA dot is too small to be ideal for a pistol.  The 32 moa circle and the 32 moa circle + 2 moa dot are too visually busy and make it difficult to stay target focused.  Granted they work well for others.  However their auto brightness adjustment is useless (something I demand on a red dot for a defensive pistol), their controls are so small that sometimes I need a pencil to use them, and the solar panel is a gimmick.  Why is the solar panel a gimmick?  If the sight is on a defensive pistol, that pistol will be most of its time in the dark either under concealment or in a drawer.  If the sight is on a sporting pistol, the sight will be off unless the pistol is out at the range in use.

 

The RMR on my carry gun is on 24/7 in auto brightness mode.  It never turns off but it dims when the pistol is in a dark place and the adjustment responds very very fast to changes in light.  I broke down and changed the battery at the 3 year mark even thought the dot was as bright as new.  The SROs I use for competition get turned on when I first holster the pistol at the match and turned off when the match is over and I'm putting the gun back in its case.

Dot size is somewhat subjective. Smaller dots are better overall. You’re not shooting a silhouette target at 100 yards as easily with a 6 moa dot as you are with a 2 moa dot. Inside 25 yards a bright 2 moa dot isn’t any harder to pick up than a bright 6 moa. If you think it’s faster great but I like my dots small

 

Maybe you could present reasons for why you think a big dot is better?

[Twilk73]

Delete

Edited December 22, 2022 by Twilk73

[Twilk73]

Delete

Edited December 22, 2022 by Twilk73

[Johnny_Chimpo]

59 minutes ago, Twilk73 said:

You’re not shooting a silhouette target at 100 yards as easily with a 6 moa dot as you are with a 2 moa dot. I

 

I'm not going to argue with you about something I'm pretty sure you have no experience with.

 

I used to compete in NRA Service Rifle back when only post/aperture metallic sights were allowed.  The front sight post width most commonly used on the National Match AR 15 back then was roughly 8 MOA wide.  Hard holders had no trouble at all shooting high 190s out of a possible 200 points on the prone slow fire stage fired at 600 yards on a 6 MOA target.

 

Once you understand from experience that your aiming mark doesn't need to be tiny in relation to the target size to achieve both accuracy and precision you can free yourself up from the ignorant idea that tiny dots are easier to make precise shots with.

[Twilk73]

1 hour ago, Johnny_Chimpo said:

 

I'm not going to argue with you about something I'm pretty sure you have no experience with.

 

I used to compete in NRA Service Rifle back when only post/aperture metallic sights were allowed.  The front sight post width most commonly used on the National Match AR 15 back then was roughly 8 MOA wide.  Hard holders had no trouble at all shooting high 190s out of a possible 200 points on the prone slow fire stage fired at 600 yards on a 6 MOA target.

 

Once you understand from experience that your aiming mark doesn't need to be tiny in relation to the target size to achieve both accuracy and precision you can free yourself up from the ignorant idea that tiny dots are easier to make precise shots with.

I think you need to re-read what you quoted. It’s easier to hit a target that’s not completely occluded by the dot. 
 

We don’t have to argue this can be a discussion. Why do you think larger dots are better?

[GJM]

Holosun offers 6 moa dots in the RMSc footprint (407K, EPS and EPS Carry), and 8 moa in the 407CO which has the RMR footprint. 

[OPENB]

12 hours ago, GJM said:

Holosun offers 6 moa dots in the RMSc footprint (407K, EPS and EPS Carry), and 8 moa in the 407CO which has the RMR footprint. 

I think the 407CO is a big circle, not a dot, but I could be wrong. I shall look it up, thanks. 

 

edit: Yeah, it's an 8moa circle. Maybe OK, don't know. 

Edited December 22, 2022 by OPENB

[Out of Ammo]

Yes, the 407CO is a 8MOA circle and not a dot.  That's what I use.