Struggling with a dot

[bobbyblaze]

I have gone back and forth from Iron sights and dots on an Open and Carry Optics pistol. I am having a hard time with speed. I feel like I am getting hung up on watching the dot too much? I can shoot my iron sighted limited pistol faster at 15 yard targets. Typically does it take a while to get to speed with an Open Pistol? What are your thoughts?

[Yeti]

Option A:  More time behind the dot.  Yes, it takes some time to familiarize yourself to it. 

Work on the presentation.  Over and over - same every time.   Don't even need to spend $ on ammo.  

 

Option B:  Embrace the irons again.  

[OpenshooterMclass4lyfe]

I’m gonna suggest the occluded dot method in dry fire.    Some painters tape or buy one of those dot covers from BSPS      If your focusing on the dot too much that will help make you target focused.   Just get a lot of reps in with it too will help.   

Edited April 12, 2022 by OpenshooterAclass4lyfe

[zzt]

Part of the problem is you are switching between three guns that have different sight heights.  Pick one of your dot guns and practice dry fire every day for a week.  By that time the dot should come up on target every time.  You will have to readjust when you go back to another gun.  Even the grip shape will require readjustment.

 

BTW, you do not look at the dot.  Muscle memory and your subconscious should superimpose the dot on what you are looking at.

[motosapiens]

as the others have touched on, it's easy for an iron sight shooter to get sucked into looking at the dot, focusing on it, and treating it like a bright red iron sight. this is slow. What you want to do is focus on the target and just 'see' the dot or be aware of it without focusing on it. It helped me (esp when getting started with dots) to put a piece of tape over the front of the dot. that may or may not help you depending on your vision and level of eye-dominance.

 

I still find myself at steel challenge matches or in uspsa practice specifically reminding myself to look at the target and keep my focus on the target.

[gargoil66]

3 hours ago, bobbyblaze said:

I have gone back and forth from Iron sights and dots on an Open and Carry Optics pistol. I am having a hard time with speed. I feel like I am getting hung up on watching the dot too much? I can shoot my iron sighted limited pistol faster at 15 yard targets. Typically does it take a while to get to speed with an Open Pistol? What are your thoughts?

BB:

 

Guys will find that they are faster with the draw and first shot with their irons until they get used to the dot sight.  Simple reason, a guy can pick up the front sight blade as he is drawing and presenting.  Until he developes a good grip with the dot sight, he has problems presenting so the dot is visible.   Once used to the dot sight, a rapid increase in speed will occur, mostly because the shooter can bring the dot and target to the same focal plane and he no longer needs to be concerned with keeping a front and rear sight in alighment.

 

No doubt you will get there so a couple of things that will probably work out well as you perfect your technique.

 

Find a grip and stance that will ensure the dot is in the screen when you present the pistol.  Major stress factor for guys new to dot sights is bringing the pistol up and not seeing the dot.  Position fixes this.  

 

Find a brightness setting that is comfortable for your eyes.  Most start out with the dot too bright and it becomes more a distractor than a asset.  

 

If you find you have problems transposing the dot on to the target or are focusing solely on the dot, train with the occluded eye system mentioned in a pervious post.  It is about the best technique to get a guys eyes trained to use a dot sight.

 

If you find yourself going to the irons instead of the dot, obscure them with some dark colored tape until you get really comfortable and confident with the dot.

 

GG

 

 

 

 

[bobbyblaze]

Thanks all! I think I am slow on my second shot on a target I am paying too much attention to the dot for a finite shot placement instead of letting the dot track in the center and pull the trigger. I guess shoot drills to help with this.

[zzt]

13 hours ago, bobbyblaze said:

Thanks all! I think I am slow on my second shot on a target I am paying too much attention to the dot for a finite shot placement instead of letting the dot track in the center and pull the trigger. I guess shoot drills to help with this.

 

It took me a while to learn this on my Open guns.  You have to tune them to your load.  You adjust recoil and mainspring weights and firing pin stop radius, and possibly your grip,  so the gun returns to the same spot you were aiming at for the first shot.  Then get your timing down.  Practice double taps on a target 15 yards away.  If your second shot is high, you pulled the trigger too early. If snake eyes, you may have been too slow.  Try again slightly faster.  When the second shot is a tad higher than the first, you are there.  Practice until you can do this consistently.  Then use timing for your second shot rather than aiming.  That being said, I still aim second shots if 25 yards away.

[MikeyScuba]

Good advice!  I found my support hand wasn't gripping hard enough and the 2nd shot would go low left.

[Foxj66]

I would stick with the recommendation of occluding the dot for dry fire/live fire. This will force your vision to the target rather than getting sucked into the dot.

[bobbyblaze]

1 hour ago, zzt said:

 

It took me a while to learn this on my Open guns.  You have to tune them to your load.  You adjust recoil and mainspring weights and firing pin stop radius, and possibly your grip,  so the gun returns to the same spot you were aiming at for the first shot.  Then get your timing down.  Practice double taps on a target 15 yards away.  If your second shot is high, you pulled the trigger too early. If snake eyes, you may have been too slow.  Try again slightly faster.  When the second shot is a tad higher than the first, you are there.  Practice until you can do this consistently.  Then use timing for your second shot rather than aiming.  That being said, I still aim second shots if 25 yards away.

HOT DAMN! good information! thanks so much... I will definitely do this. This is what I was looking for and, I will try the Ocluded dot.

[bulldog009]

1 hour ago, zzt said:

 

It took me a while to learn this on my Open guns.  You have to tune them to your load.  You adjust recoil and mainspring weights and firing pin stop radius, and possibly your grip,  so the gun returns to the same spot you were aiming at for the first shot.  Then get your timing down.  Practice double taps on a target 15 yards away.  If your second shot is high, you pulled the trigger too early. If snake eyes, you may have been too slow.  Try again slightly faster.  When the second shot is a tad higher than the first, you are there.  Practice until you can do this consistently.  Then use timing for your second shot rather than aiming.  That being said, I still aim second shots if 25 yards away.

That is a method I've never really seen expressed like that, though I feel like that's what I've always done - don't "aim" you second shot, just time its return. Your explanation is spot on and super helpful! 

[MikeBurgess]

2 hours ago, zzt said:

 

It took me a while to learn this on my Open guns.  You have to tune them to your load.  You adjust recoil and mainspring weights and firing pin stop radius, and possibly your grip,  so the gun returns to the same spot you were aiming at for the first shot.  Then get your timing down.  Practice double taps on a target 15 yards away.  If your second shot is high, you pulled the trigger too early. If snake eyes, you may have been too slow.  Try again slightly faster.  When the second shot is a tad higher than the first, you are there.  Practice until you can do this consistently.  Then use timing for your second shot rather than aiming.  That being said, I still aim second shots if 25 yards away.

This may be a bit of over simplification for some shooters.

 

To make this work you need to be able to see where all your shots are going, as in while you may not be "aiming" your second shot you do need to be seeing where the dot lifts from so you will know where it went and if that was acceptable. 

 

the big thing is for each shooter to figure out for themselves what target difficulty and distance requires what type of "aiming" information