New to reloading, have some questions re: 9mm major

[abtrumpet]

By the way, I'm not offended. Just give it to me straight. Would rather the shame then blow my head off.

[ysrracer]

7 minutes ago, abtrumpet said:

By the way, I'm not offended. Just give it to me straight. Would rather the shame then blow my head off.

 

Dude, you're not going to blow your head off, your hand, sure, but not your head

[abtrumpet]

5 minutes ago, ysrracer said:

 

Dude, you're not going to blow your head off, your hand, sure, but not your head

 

Yeah...kinda need that for shooting. 

[Balakay]

7 hours ago, abtrumpet said:

 

 

...Also, I found some 9mm major for sale from a shop in Florida. I may give it a try and see if I can reverse engineer it.

You can scan the powder with your tricorder and determine the exact powder used  /sarc

 

Don't do this. 

 

Just stick with a commonly used/recommended load and work up slowly with your chrono

[AHI]

I would check that ammos OAL before buying a bunch.

[NoSteel]

You didn’t come back to this thread right off so some may not have thought you were serious.  Now that you are,  your getting some good responses.   As you noted,  you need to get some insight from someone you know who reloads with a consideration towards 9mm major.  That’s going to start with knowing exactly what OAL you can run in your chamber WITH the bullet you plan to use!!   In the end,  it’s still reloading but you have to pay attention to the details.  Blowing up a gun isn’t fun nor cheap and it also isn’t real comfortable for your RO!!    It’s more likely you would struggle with function issues (as you already found out) unless your way off base but that will just add to your match frustrations.  Get some help,  develop / test at a range and when you get it where you want it you’ll find a match will be much more enjoyable.
 

 Do some searches in the reloading section and you will find allot of useful information also.  Not sure what State(s) you shoot in but I’m sure you’ll find plenty of people at your matches that can help…. 

[Youngeyes]

One thing that you will find as you are working up a load, is how much enjoyment and satisfaction there is. I can't wait to get to the range to chrono and test shoot a new load. Especially for a new gun. You find that just right load for accuracy, recoil and reliability. You'll be proud to slap a data sticker on the bullet cases. When you get a chrono station at a match you'll know how good your stuff is. The only downside is that if you suck on the match, it's you not the loads. 

[HesedTech]

Reverse engineer a factory load? Not really possible unless we know what powder, primer and bullet is being used.

 

Concentrate on making ammo which runs in your gun. At our local matches there are two groups I see consistently have ammo based malfunctions, Open 9mm major and single stack using 45 ACP.

 

1. Plunk test, plunk test and finally plunk test. (If it doesn't fit in the gun it won't run)

2. Velocity desired with weight of bullet.

3. Appropriate powder to not overpressure and yet help make comp effective.

 

The third reason is why I don't shoot Open 9mm major.

 

Have fun making it happen, and don't forget we do these things as a hobby and for they joy of it all.

[ysrracer]

OP, STOP, STOP, STOP,

 

you're in over your head. Nobody reverse engineers a factory load, and I've never heard of a gun shop selling 9mm major.

 

Reloading is fun, but you have to walk before you run.

[GrumpyOne]

1 minute ago, ysrracer said:

OP, STOP, STOP, STOP,

 

you're in over your head. Nobody reverse engineers a factory load, and I've never heard of a gun shop selling 9mm major.

 

Reloading is fun, but you have to walk before you run.

It all depends on the gun shop. Just because you've never heard of it does not make it not so. 

 

As for reverse engineering a factory (Winchester, Federal, Remington, etc) load, yeah, that probably won't work since they use canister powders and will mix powders to get their desired result. You can, however, find out the bullet weight and velocity, and work back a load from there using a suitable powder (by cross referencing bullet weights and given velocities in loading manuals).

 

I don't agree that the OP needs to stop...but he does need to slow down and take things one step at a time. Stop trying to rush things, do some research, and don't take anyone's word (for load developement) as gospel. What load works for them may not work for you.

None of us were experts in reloading when we started, yet here we are. 

[ysrracer]

45 minutes ago, GrumpyOne said:

It all depends on the gun shop. Just because you've never heard of it does not make it not so. 

 

Agreed, I just said, I've never heard of it. It's a pretty specialized round. 

 

Just like most gun shops don't carry .257 ackley improved. I've never seen it, but it might be out there.

[abtrumpet]

3 hours ago, NoSteel said:

You didn’t come back to this thread right off so some may not have thought you were serious.  Now that you are,  your getting some good responses.   As you noted,  you need to get some insight from someone you know who reloads with a consideration towards 9mm major.  That’s going to start with knowing exactly what OAL you can run in your chamber WITH the bullet you plan to use!!   In the end,  it’s still reloading but you have to pay attention to the details.  Blowing up a gun isn’t fun nor cheap and it also isn’t real comfortable for your RO!!    It’s more likely you would struggle with function issues (as you already found out) unless your way off base but that will just add to your match frustrations.  Get some help,  develop / test at a range and when you get it where you want it you’ll find a match will be much more enjoyable.
 

 Do some searches in the reloading section and you will find allot of useful information also.  Not sure what State(s) you shoot in but I’m sure you’ll find plenty of people at your matches that can help…. 

 

I was expecting emails telling me I had responses...so I thought that I had none!

[abtrumpet]

3 hours ago, NoSteel said:

You didn’t come back to this thread right off so some may not have thought you were serious.  Now that you are,  your getting some good responses.   As you noted,  you need to get some insight from someone you know who reloads with a consideration towards 9mm major.  That’s going to start with knowing exactly what OAL you can run in your chamber WITH the bullet you plan to use!!   In the end,  it’s still reloading but you have to pay attention to the details.  Blowing up a gun isn’t fun nor cheap and it also isn’t real comfortable for your RO!!    It’s more likely you would struggle with function issues (as you already found out) unless your way off base but that will just add to your match frustrations.  Get some help,  develop / test at a range and when you get it where you want it you’ll find a match will be much more enjoyable.
 

 Do some searches in the reloading section and you will find allot of useful information also.  Not sure what State(s) you shoot in but I’m sure you’ll find plenty of people at your matches that can help…. 

 

I'm in Utah. We have a plethora of shooters and reloaders.

[NoSteel]

Will be interested to see where you end up for correct OAL.  When I was setting up my Czechmate 1.135 with a MG 125gr JHP was about my limit.  I had my chamber finish reamed to go out to 1.165” which made a big difference when working up a load.  At that point you have to look at the OAL limits on your magazine and making sure you have some room there also.  

Edited January 25, 2022 by NoSteel

[Youngeyes]

24 minutes ago, abtrumpet said:

 

I'm in Utah. We have a plethora of shooters and reloaders.

Exactly how many shooters and reloaders make a plethora? 

[38super]

2 ICORE squads of geezers

[ysrracer]

23 minutes ago, 38super said:

2 ICORE squads of geezers

 

I tried to get ICORE on my license plate, but couldn't. So I got the next best thing.

 

[AHI]

2 hours ago, ysrracer said:

 

Agreed, I just said, I've never heard of it. It's a pretty specialized round. 

 

Just like most gun shops don't carry .257 ackley improved. I've never seen it, but it might be out there.

Everglades ammo / bullets. In Florida does or at least did offer. 9 major ammo.

[ysrracer]

5 minutes ago, AHI said:

Everglades ammo / bullets. In Florida does or at least did offer. 9 major ammo.

 

Ok.

[GrumpyOne]

1 hour ago, ysrracer said:

 

I tried to get ICORE on my license plate, but couldn't. So I got the next best thing.

 

Age Ezer? LOL!

[ysrracer]

1 hour ago, GrumpyOne said:

Age Ezer? LOL!

 

A geezer

[abtrumpet]

I think I will set up the Parrot for 9mm minor until I can work up a safe minor load, then go from there. Probably a safer route.

 

Just curious, can you use Hodgon HS-6 for standard 9mm?

[AHI]

Good plain.   HS 6 will be dirty at true 125-135 minor loads. If you go to 140-150 Power Factor.( factory Self Defence PF) It cleans up quite well. and You may get a little use of your comp.

[abtrumpet]

17 hours ago, AHI said:

Good plain.   HS 6 will be dirty at true 125-135 minor loads. If you go to 140-150 Power Factor.( factory Self Defence PF) It cleans up quite well. and You may get a little use of your comp.

 

Ok, that's what I think I will do. Thank you for the advice. This way I can learn but with lower risks.

 

I appreciate all the input.

[Snoopy47]

On 1/24/2022 at 10:34 PM, abtrumpet said:

Also, I found some 9mm major for sale from a shop in Florida. I may give it a try and see if I can reverse engineer it.

The problem with that raises the question if it will make Power Factor in your gun. So buying it, even if reputable, safe and legit good ammo doesn't mean it will meet match rules on a chrono at certain temperature, etc...  

 

Now........ Shooting MINOR with this gun is not the end of the world in a USPSA match. You just give up a few points for non Alpha hits. You can still play. 

 

The danger with playing with Major loads is not that a newbie can't do it, but it's not a place to start learning how to reload if you are experimenting. There are nuances to reloading and generally following manuals and NOT skipping any steps will get you going down the right direction. However, as you get more components, different powders, different primers, different bullets (weights, calibers, coatings types) all these things come into play to make good shooting safe reliable ammo. 

 

Example: It's simple, but a major lesson in my early reloading days. I didn't treat bullet types of the same caliber and weight differently. So I was loading a Cast Lead bullet with the same powder charge as the Jacketed recipe. Lesson learned here was I would loading the cast lead HOTTER relative to jacketed because it makes a better rifling seal down the barrel and less gasses escape in front of the bullet leaving more pressure to push the bullet. For a while I kept wondering why one bullet type hurt my wrist more to shoot than the other. 

 

Then I learned there are nuances of my reloads between different guns. Mainly, how tight the chamber is from one gun to the next, and relative to the condition of the brass I'm using through my dies. I use a Markov die to better size my 9mm (I read it somewhere and tried it and it ended up working better for me). So ammo I make for one gun might not run well in another if I'm trying to "game" my reloads to make them easier to shoot. I can simply load a generic universal load for a given caliber, but that defeats the point. 

 

Finally............... with all these nuances of reloading what you are NOT GOING TO FIND IN PRINTED MATERIAL is how to load Major Powder Factor for USPSA. 

 

You step into the realm of no one is going to take the liability of giving you that data, and you generally have to figure that out for yourself. So if you directly don't have someone to take you under their wing you are putting yourself and your equipment at risk. 

 

The need for the chronograph is to let you know when to STOP!!!!!!!!!!! once you meet your velocity and power factor needs. 

 

You need to choose a bullet type that can handle those velocities (typically a JACKTED bullet). 

 

You need to choose a powder that has the lowest pressure profile (slower powders) 

 

You need to use brass that is less likely to split on you, and not use it too many times. 

 

I think primers are up for debate, and just an over all problem getting our hands on so to each his own. 

 

**************

With the limited knowledge I have about this subject, it only pertains to my particular gun, caliber, and components. 

 

I managed a reload with a 124gn FMJ at 1.16 OAL 1350 FPS through a KKM barrel. So the chamber is a little on the tighter side, the OAL is a little on the longer side, the barrel is on the longer side and with all that my load is only 0.5gn over the powder manufacture load MAX for my bullet type of 124FMJ. Some folks are going 2 - 3+ gn's over the manufacture powder load. I'm excited I nearly got there within manufacture specs (but I did so with a longer and tighter barrel). 

 

I was able to use someone's Doppler Radar Chrono so I'm confident my Power Factor data is dead on. 

 

When I load I measure each powder charge with a digital scale, and before each round gets shot it gets chamber checked. 

 

*************

 

So it's not to say you are not capable of cranking out Major ammo reloads if you knew what those components and processes are for your gun, is the part of getting there by yourself, and then treating each Major Power cartridge you assemble as if it's the last one you will ever make.