Lee Seat/Crimp Die Question (Beginner)

[benassi124]

Hey everyone,

 

New to reloading here, a quick overview of my setup before I post my issue, I have a dillon xl750 setup with lee sizing/decapping die, dillon powder funnel/flare die with a lee seat and crimp die.

 

The issue I am having is after flaring the case mouth, it measures at .385, then when in the next station when I move the flared case with projectile in it towards the seat and crimp die, it goes in but I hear kind of a scratching sound as it goes into the die, I remove the now crimped cartridge and there no visible scoring on the case but I see a few brass flakes on my hand. The case mount measures .376 with a seat depth of 1.130 which is right what I am aiming for. It case gauges perfectly and passes plunk test.

 

My question is, is this scratching sound and minute brass flakes on cartridge something to be concerned with, will it mess up my die in the long term, what could cause this, is it a sign of too much case flare? 

 

I will get some pictures as soon as I am at my bench, thank you all in advance for the help and I look forward to being very active here.

[louu]

Are you wet tumbling? 

 

No you really can't harm the dies they are way harder than brass and lead. 

 

You want to use as little flare as possible. Just enough for the bullet to sit in and stay there while the shell plate advances. Also enough so it's not shaving the bullet. 

[benassi124]

34 minutes ago, louu said:

Are you wet tumbling? 

 

No you really can't harm the dies they are way harder than brass and lead. 

 

You want to use as little flare as possible. Just enough for the bullet to sit in and stay there while the shell plate advances. Also enough so it's not shaving the bullet. 

Thanks for the reply, yes I am wet tumbling. I am also lubing the cases mildly on an rcbs lube pad prior to get fed into the bullet feeder tube

 

[louu]

Yeah I wet tumble too and that's just part of it having brass dust all over the press. If you use a spray case lube it will help eliminate that but it's really not a problem to worry about. The lube pad only lubes the outside obviously, the shavings/dust come from any part of the brass that isn't lubed. 

[Furrly]

If I read your post correctly it Soudns that you are seating and crimping at the same time. I would separate the seating and crimping in 2 different stations. Seating and crimping on the same station can cause all sorts of issues.. 

[Tunachaser]

3 hours ago, Furrly said:

If I read your post correctly it Soudns that you are seating and crimping at the same time. I would separate the seating and crimping in 2 different stations. Seating and crimping on the same station can cause all sorts of issues.. 

^X2

 

Scraping sound is probably the brass on the inside of the bullet seating die, with that much flare it's common.  Are you using jacketed bullets or lead?  For JACKETED bullets you should be able to use less flare.  For ME  .380-.382 for .355 jacketed bullets.  Coated (usually .356) .382-.385 works.

 

Again I am a fan of separate seating and crimping stations with lead or coated lead.  You are still going to see tiny bits of brass, it goes with the process but you can try to reduce it to a minimum.

 

Edited May 22, 2021 by Tunachaser

[benassi124]

4 hours ago, Furrly said:

If I read your post correctly it Soudns that you are seating and crimping at the same time. I would separate the seating and crimping in 2 different stations. Seating and crimping on the same station can cause all sorts of issues.. 

Correct I am seating and crimping at the same time. I also have a factory crimp die on hand, or is there another brand of seating die you would recommend. I didnt even think of this, thank you

 

 

 

56 minutes ago, Tunachaser said:

^X2

 

Scraping sound is probably the brass on the inside of the bullet seating die, with that much flare it's common.  Are you using jacketed bullets or lead?  For JACKETED bullets you should be able to use less flare.  For ME  .380-.382 for .355 jacketed bullets.  Coated (usually .356) .382-.385 works.

 

Again I am a fan of separate seating and crimping stations with lead or coated lead.  You are still going to see tiny bits of brass, it goes with the process but you can try to reduce it to a minimum.

 

it is a jacketed bullet, I reduced my flare to .383 just now and the scraping sound was much less pronounced, I'm going to work on the hot rod now but when I get back I am going to reduce the flare a little more and see if it completely gets rid of the sound 

 

6 hours ago, louu said:

Yeah I wet tumble too and that's just part of it having brass dust all over the press. If you use a spray case lube it will help eliminate that but it's really not a problem to worry about. The lube pad only lubes the outside obviously, the shavings/dust come from any part of the brass that isn't lubed. 

Thank you for the extra reassurance.

 

 

 

Thank you all, for sharing your knowledge, Im usually able to figure stuff on my own through trial and error but this is something Id rather be safe than sorry because errors with ammo can be bad as you all know

[louu]

A couple of more tips for ya

 

Check your crimp buy pulling a couple of rounds apart with an impact Puller hammer thingy. Make sure your not cutting the jacket with to much crimp. 

 

Fire a round, slowly rack out the next round in the chamber and measure it making sure it didn't get jammed deeper into the case from the impact of the feed ramp. This makes sure your crimp is tight enough. Do this a few times as well. 

 

Use the Lee factory crimp die, it's awesome and also has a chamber checker ring built in. 

 

The regular Lee seat die is good enough but when I use them I add a better locking ring like the Hornady one or something similar. 

[Furrly]

50 minutes ago, benassi124 said:

Correct I am seating and crimping at the same time. I also have a factory crimp die on hand, or is there another brand of seating die you would recommend. I didnt even think of this, thank you

 

 

 

it is a jacketed bullet, I reduced my flare to .383 just now and the scraping sound was much less pronounced, I'm going to work on the hot rod now but when I get back I am going to reduce the flare a little more and see if it completely gets rid of the sound 

 

Thank you for the extra reassurance.

 

 

 

Thank you all, for sharing your knowledge, Im usually able to figure stuff on my own through trial and error but this is something Id rather be safe than sorry because errors with ammo can be bad as you all know

Like others have mentioned, the Lee factory crip die is what I have used for over 50k rounds.. I use redding seating die, I think any reputable seating die will work.. 

[Tunachaser]

I am not a fan of the Lee FCD with lead bullets. 

 

OP their are MANY threads on pros and cons of Lee FCD on this and other forums, I suggest if you are using or considering lead bullets to do a search. 

 

Good luck and be safe.

[ddc]

You will likely see some brass dust and specks no matter what your load process is. 

Some processes produce more than others.

[benassi124]

45 minutes ago, Tunachaser said:

I am not a fan of the Lee FCD with lead bullets. 

 

OP their are MANY threads on pros and cons of Lee FCD on this and other forums, I suggest if you are using or considering lead bullets to do a search. 

 

Good luck and be safe.

thank you! I don’t plan on using lead bullets for the time being. My workshop right now doesn’t have the ventilation I’d like it have before I even consider working with lead. So just jacketed for the mean time. I also have a lot more to learn about casting and how projectiles react before I consider that. Mean time I’m just loading basic loads with known components and making a new hobby out of it so I don’t drive the significant other insane because of my complaining about the price of ammo lol. But I have to say I’m hooked. 

 

3 hours ago, louu said:

A couple of more tips for ya

 

Check your crimp buy pulling a couple of rounds apart with an impact Puller hammer thingy. Make sure your not cutting the jacket with to much crimp. 

 

Fire a round, slowly rack out the next round in the chamber and measure it making sure it didn't get jammed deeper into the case from the impact of the feed ramp. This makes sure your crimp is tight enough. Do this a few times as well. 

 

Use the Lee factory crimp die, it's awesome and also has a chamber checker ring built in. 

 

The regular Lee seat die is good enough but when I use them I add a better locking ring like the Hornady one or something similar. 

thank you and good tip  I just tried that and no movement on the bullet back into the case, that’s called setback correct? Still learning all the terminology. I have a slight bulge on the case around the projectile that’s even around the whole case. I’ve read that’s not issue, correct? See attached pic 

[Dr. Phil]

Your dimensions sound the same as mine.

If you are not scratching the bullet on seating you are probably GTG.

FWIW I load the same crimp (.376) whether I am shooting .355, .356. .358 or my revo load with .3575 bullets. I shoot the same loads in auto and revo at several powder charges and they all function fine.

Pull a bullet and check for scratches. Won't hurt.

BTW I shoot almost exclusively powder coated lead. 

I have long thought that the "crimp and seat separately" thing is a holdover from the bench rest game.

 It is a solution in search of a problem.

IMHO.

[muncie21]

OP, you shouldn't hear/feel scraping when seating the bullet.  If so, the case is flared too much.  Adjust the dillon powder die a little bit at a time to correct this, it doesn't take much.

[benassi124]

21 hours ago, muncie21 said:

OP, you shouldn't hear/feel scraping when seating the bullet.  If so, the case is flared too much.  Adjust the dillon powder die a little bit at a time to correct this, it doesn't take much.

Here are some pictures of the flare and how the projectile sits prior to going into the seat/crimp die

[benassi124]

[rooster]

Not sure how a seat/crimp die works as I do that in 2 separate steps, but the way I set up my flair is to over flair a case, put it in the seat die without a bullet. Run the ram up then measure the flair. Mine usually comes out to .383, now set up your flair just a little larger than the measurement you get. I set mine to .385.  The purpose of this is that the wall of your die will now keep the case straight in the die body as your bullet is seated.

[4n2t0]

Seating/crimping in one step does not cause any issues whatsoever when setup correctly. Adjust your flare and check the inside of the die for galling.

Edited May 24, 2021 by 4n2t0