slide jams with 9mm reloads

[boatdoc173]

I am a  newer reloader with an issue with ONE gun.

 

here is the situation:

 

y ONLY issue with 9mm came from ONE pistol that JAMS about 4/5 of the way during chambering of a round on the range. Doe s not matter whether it is a commercial round like S+B or blazer brass or my hand loads. Some rounds will not completely chamber.

I had to try each round--one at a time to be sure they loaded properly into the gun and pack only those rounds which fit. My crimp matches the rounds that work( about 0.3765". I reduced my COAL to 1.149" commercial rounds listed have a COAL of 1.15_" and a crimp of 0.376 or 0.377 0r 8"

Spent HOURS on sunday trying to resolve this. adjusted the depriming /case straightening die(station #1) further down but not touching the primer insertion piece. added a little better opening to the case topside to accept my 124 gr fmj bullets easier. spent hours making,measuring and finally testing EACH round. It is the chamber of that gun that is off I am sur e of it

I eventually took all of my work on Sunday ( 200 rounds) set aside the ones that fit into the problem child first then and loaded each one( o f those not selected already ) into a Sig P226 first. my sigs and Cz guns eat anything--USUALLY). It they did not feed properly( due to the changes I was making as I tried to get rounds that consistently fit into the problem child while I was loading ( small adjustments made on the fly), I tried them in a 1911. ALL 200 rounds fit easily into the 1911s I used to test them . The ones that jammed the Sig will be used in 1911s only until gone.

I think I have the final #s on the crimp and COAL down so ALL of my guns work with them . Range time tomorrow will tell.

The company that made the gun has been contacted as I want them to open the chamber up a bit to accept all ammo.commercial and handloads.

.45 acp was much easier. 1.1155" COAL( 185 gr fmj round tip and semi wad cutting style) ZERO issue s with any guns feeding or firing them

I use a dillion 55c press and dillion dies.

I am thinking of getting redding titanium pro series dies in the future.

 

any ideas on a fix?  

 

My idea is to get the chamber end of the problem child gun opened up to accept all ammo--reloads and commercial. So far no  response from t he maker.  Thinking of having aocal gunsmith do it otherwise

[George16]

Do a plunk test on that particular barrel and reduce your OAL u til is passes the plunk test. Different bullets have different profiles and determines its OAL on a particular gun or barrel. 
 

Factory rounds that chamber without any problems doesn’t mean anything if they have different bullet profiles. You have to tailor your reloads OAL to the specific barrel you’re loading for. If you have multiple guns/barrels, then the best thing is to ,ale sure your reloads/ammo will chamber on the problematic gun so they’ll all work on the other guns.

 

By the way, what gun is giving you problems? The barrel probably have a short leade or throat and/or the bullet profile is blunt preventing it from chambering properly or passing the plunk test.

[Cuz]

Forget about your reloads for now, you have a gun problem if it won't feed commercial ammo reliably.  Solve that problem first.

 

[4n2t0]

That's a scatterbrained post if I ever saw one. It's hard to tell what the actual problem is because you're all over the place. It's likely a gun problem since factory ammo is an issue but lets straighten out a few things...

 

1) Listen to George, plunk to determine OAL. Copying a factory round is useless.

 

2) Listen to Cuz, you probably have a gun problem. What gun? No one knows because you didn't tell us.

 

3) Improper crimp rarely affects function. Crimp for a 9mm round should measure approximately .377-.379 at the case mouth.

 

4) I'm not sure what adjustments you made to the sizing die but there's only one way to set it up properly. It must make contact with the shell plate, do not back off the die.

 

5) Getting new dies won't fix your problem.

 

More info...

 

https://forums.brianenos.com/topic/287936-advice-at-getting-started-in-these-difficult-times/page/2/?tab=comments#comment-3212023

 

Edited October 6, 2020 by 4n2t0

[boatdoc173]

 

Thanks George  and Cuz. I ,now  understand that the bullet  shapes may cause issue s  .  Comparing commercial ammo that actually works in this  gun seemed like a good way to start to resolve the problems  I am having  with it 

 

As I stated, I am new to this so pointers about bullet sizes and shapes are a big help s,Obviously, i wa s  looking at  ammo shapes, sizes, tapers...not just  the bullet length  size ,taper...

 

I did plunk test them  before I  tried to see if they would  jam the gun. mOST OF   THEM  were just fine and fit inside the barrel as they should  and as the commercial ammo did.

 

I hate dto just name a  company as I did not want to bad mouth them. I love  their  guns  . However since thathave vanished regarding this problem i am having,  this CZ custom A 01 SD.

 

FWIW, I once  had a custom 1911  in 9mm do this. the gunsmith took the  gun back and opened up the chamber end of the barrel a bit. Now it feed ANYTHING

 

 thanks for the ideas and help.  Much appreciated

 

keep them coming  folks

 

 

[boatdoc173]

Onc e  option I considered before George and Cuz posted  was trying to find some brand new 9mm brass ad I felt that   the base of the   cases were the cause of the problem.  I will try your suggestions and examine the Xtreme 124 gr fmj round nosed bullets anbd back off the C O AL as suggested. Re plunk the new ammo and hope that it feeds properly.

 

of course, if CZ custom would address this issue, I would be just fine shooting all of my ammo. commercial and my reloads

 

again thanks for your KINDNESS

[boatdoc173]

after I  try out your suggestions , I will get back on the thread to  let you know how it worked out

[George16]

Make different OAL dummy rounds (resized case, no powder  and primer) and use them to plunk test for the OAL that’ll work with your gun reliably. If it doesn’t work at say, 1.149”, reduced its OAL by .010 and check again. Keep doing this until you get a reading that passes the plunk test with the barrel. Then subtract .015” from this max OAL and it’ll be your final OAL.

 

For example:

max OAL is 1.150. Subtract .015” from it and 1.135” will be your OAL that’ll feed reliably. Of course, different headstamp will give you  more variation compared to same headstamp cases.

 

Or you can have your barrel reamed/throated so you won’t have any problems loading long. I had my Czechmate barrels reamed by forum member @MemphisMechanic and I can load up to 1.175” OAL now.

 

Good luck.

[boatdoc173]

 

Thanks for  all of your help George. The last thing  I  did Sunday, was to do just what you just posted. MY test dummy rounds fit fine,plunked as they should have  and did not jam the gum at all.

 

Being a new reloader, I posted this to find out the why. Your answer is OAL and involves bullet shape as well. makes  sense to me.

 

The gun is "tight  chambered" per CZC and they will not touch  it. Your solution is the best  way to get  rounds to work in this  gun.   Since it is the problem  child  of my  collection,if the  rounds fit this gun, they will fit in  t he other  guns I shoot.

Edited October 7, 2020 by boatdoc173
mis spell

[Chutist]

13 hours ago, boatdoc173 said:

ONLY issue with 9mm came from ONE pistol that JAMS about 4/5 of the way during chambering of a round on the range. Doe s not matter whether it is a commercial round like S+B or blazer brass or my hand loads. Some rounds will not completely chamber.

As others have said, this is a gun issue, not a reload issue.  Fix THAT.

Having said that...when you go back to reloading - One thing that solved almost all the feeding problems in any of my guns was roll sizing. . Now I just buy roll sized brass to start with... 

[boatdoc173]

chutist-- as I posted  CZC refuses to help or even reply to my emails.

 

The gun did accept the dummies that I amde up late Sunday

 

OAL= 1.149"

 

crimp 0.3765"

 

and they loaded into the  gun  as  well as  plunked  just fine. I am hoping that the 5 live rounds that I mad eup this  AM( which also plunked and loaded  into the gun work out

 

( xtrme 124 gr fmj round nose over 4 gr of bullseye)  they closely resemble and closely measure the Speer lawman 124 gr fmj I compared them to this AM.

 

thanks for the reply

[HesedTech]

Rare but even  “commercial “ rounds can be too long in some guns.

 

For a CZ 1.08 is probably the longest OAL. 1.149 is very long for that gun.

 

Do a search of this forum and you’ll see what other have used in the past. Longer than  1.10 is really hard unless the Bullet profile is really tapered. Additionally the magazine’s probably can’t feed properly much past 1.14.

[9x45]

CZ's are sensitive to case length also. They don't like much over .745" And OAL is whatever it takes to case gage and plunk test in the barrel of your gun. Could be anywhere from 1.165" to 1.060" depending on the bullet shape.

[boatdoc173]

@HesedTech you  have a point there. turns out some of  the commercial ammo was too long. George was right about it being a OAL issue.

 

MY loads from today with the listed OAL, gr  of bullseye used with xtreme 124  gr  fmj bullets shot great. all loaded and ejected perfectly. I can get some sleep tonight 

 

thanks for much to those who responded

 

and especially to George. Much appreciated.

 

[boatdoc173]

9x45-thanks for the additional info. I will watch  out for abnormal ly sized cases too

[blueorison]

22 minutes ago, boatdoc173 said:

@HesedTech you  have a point there. turns out some of  the commercial ammo was too long. George was right about it being a OAL issue.

 

MY loads from today with the listed OAL, gr  of bullseye used with xtreme 124  gr  fmj bullets shot great. all loaded and ejected perfectly. I can get some sleep tonight 

 

thanks for much to those who responded

 

and especially to George. Much appreciated.

 

 

Awesome! I also load to 1.08 for the CZ. It does shoot long 115gr very well (1.150), but can get into issues with reliable ejection. 

 

I wonder if there is an extractor/more aggressive upgrade, somewhere.

[lll Otto lll]

20 hours ago, boatdoc173 said:

I am a  newer reloader with an issue with ONE gun.

 

here is the situation:

 

y ONLY issue with 9mm came from ONE pistol that JAMS about 4/5 of the way during chambering of a round on the range. Doe s not matter whether it is a commercial round like S+B or blazer brass or my hand loads. Some rounds will not completely chamber.
 

Interesting tha t  Sellier and Bellot ammo (made in Czech Republic) won't CHAMBER in a CZ that's also mad e in the Czech Repub lic. 


 

Edited October 7, 2020 by lll Otto lll

[George16]

1 minute ago, lll Otto lll said:

Interesting tha t  Sellier and Bellot ammo (made in Czech Republic) won't CHAMBER in a CZ that's also mad e in the Czech Repub lic. 


 

It’s an AO1 LD made by cz custom in Arizona iirc.

[George16]

53 minutes ago, boatdoc173 said:

@HesedTech you  have a point there. turns out some of  the commercial ammo was too long. George was right about it being a OAL issue.

 

MY loads from today with the listed OAL, gr  of bullseye used with xtreme 124  gr  fmj bullets shot great. all loaded and ejected perfectly. I can get some sleep tonight 

 

thanks for much to those who responded

 

and especially to George. Much appreciated.

 

I’m glad you got it all sorted out. Have fun shooting.

[9x45]

CZ chambers do not conform to SAAMI dimensions. They use some sort of Euro standard.

[boatdoc173]

III otto III--not all of the S+B caused issues. some shot well, another batch had some jams.

 

Now I  will plunk test any  commercial ammo  (when I buy more) before  hitting the range

 

 

[boatdoc173]

cannot  thank you enough George for your help and thoughtful suggestions 

 

Best part of my day was shooting that A01 SD and having zero  issues while doing it--it was the first time since I bought  it

[blueorison]

1 minute ago, boatdoc173 said:

cannot  thank you enough George for your help and thoughtful suggestions 

 

Best part of my day was shooting that A01 SD and having zero  issues while doing it--it was the first time since I bought  it

 

That's awesome. Glad you didn't have to use it as your boat anchor... though it certainly would be heavy enough to do the job

[HesedTech]

4 hours ago, blueorison said:

I wonder if there is an extractor/more aggressive upgrade, somewhere.

Actually I found the magazine is the restriction, anything longer than 1.15 can start to drag and cause the round to not push up properly. This is probably what causes the brass to not eject properly. Can't guarantee that though.

 

For parts these guys are one of the best:

https://cajungunworks.com/shop/?s=extractor&post_type=product&filter_descriptions=extractors&query_type_descriptions=or

 

[boatdoc173]

blueorison-- thanks I am thrilled too. The gun is special as far as a cz Custom build.

 

and yeah it has some real steel in it. makes follow up shots too easy