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Advice at getting started in these difficult times!


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Thanks for the replies

 

SJBriggs, thanks for advice One Shot will be here Monday

Stick, Dillon press is ordered and I got shipping notification so hope to have it early next week.  I was happy I could find a 9mm press available somewhere!

amada8, Hundo is on order and should ship next week. 

 

I also picked up some MTM ammo storage containers, a primer flip tray, inline LED light since I am old and blind, a bullet puller and some extra arco bins blue of course lol.

 

A quick calculation of my equipment costs is going to be roughly $1900 and that's counting everything.  To load my first 1k rounds of 9mm I am going to have .065 cents per primer, .067 per bullet, .05 per case and .02 for powder for a little over 20 cents/round.  With the going rate of .65 cents a round right now I will be saving $450 on that first 1k rounds.  At that rate it is not going to take me long to recover my investment!!

 

Even if I buy small pistol primers on GB which I can get for $640 for 5k.  That would be .13/primer and I'm still only at .33 cent/round which is way cheaper than you can currently buy it if you can even find it. 

 

But most importantly I will have ammo and can keep shooting!

 

 

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10 hours ago, ML123 said:

Thanks for the replies

 

SJBriggs, thanks for advice One Shot will be here Monday

Stick, Dillon press is ordered and I got shipping notification so hope to have it early next week.  I was happy I could find a 9mm press available somewhere!

amada8, Hundo is on order and should ship next week. 

 

I also picked up some MTM ammo storage containers, a primer flip tray, inline LED light since I am old and blind, a bullet puller and some extra arco bins blue of course lol.

 

A quick calculation of my equipment costs is going to be roughly $1900 and that's counting everything.  To load my first 1k rounds of 9mm I am going to have .065 cents per primer, .067 per bullet, .05 per case and .02 for powder for a little over 20 cents/round.  With the going rate of .65 cents a round right now I will be saving $450 on that first 1k rounds.  At that rate it is not going to take me long to recover my investment!!

 

Even if I buy small pistol primers on GB which I can get for $640 for 5k.  That would be .13/primer and I'm still only at .33 cent/round which is way cheaper than you can currently buy it if you can even find it. 

 

But most importantly I will have ammo and can keep shooting!

 

 

When you get a chance, look at the vibra-prime.  It will save you time in loading primers.

 

As for the press, You will now be able to save money by making your own ammo versus buying store bought.  The press will pay for itself!  The best part of loading your own ammo is that you can now cater the load to your gun.  Congrats on the acquisition!

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I don't use small ammo cases anymore (they're good for matches) but the Dillon boxes match up with the hundo perfectly. Now I buy plastic 50 cal. ammo cans and dump everything in them.

 

 

P50-9M-24 MTM Ammo Box
Edited by 4n2t0
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58 minutes ago, 4n2t0 said:

I don't use small ammo cases anymore (they're good for matches) but the Dillon boxes match up with the hundo perfectly. Now I buy plastic 50 cal. ammo cans and dump everything in them.

 

 

I'm always afraid the plastic ammo can will fall apart when it's full of ammo.  I never thought they were designed to be filled with 9mm rounds.  Which brand are you using?

 

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Thanks that Vibra-prime is a must have

 

I have been using the MTM 30 cal ammo cans and they hold around 4-500 rounds of 9mm or 223 with no issues and seem pretty durable.

 

From what I can tell the 50cal ammo can will hold 10 P-100 ammo cases which should also work with the Hundo case gauge.  MTM sells the ACC9 as a combo kit https://www.mtmcase-gard.com/products/shooting/ammo-can-combo.php

 

I just ordered one from Midway.

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23 hours ago, Cuz said:

 

I'm always afraid the plastic ammo can will fall apart when it's full of ammo.  I never thought they were designed to be filled with 9mm rounds.  Which brand are you using?

 

 

I use the MTM crates I pictured in my last post, .50 cal for storage within the plastic crate which I stack on top of one another and .30 cal for transport/range trips.

Edited by 4n2t0
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On 9/14/2020 at 8:17 AM, 4n2t0 said:

 

I use the MTM crates I pictured in my last post, .50 cal for storage within the plastic crate which I stack on top of one another and .30 cal for transport/range trips.

Thanks, those looked a little big for my needs so I just ordered the 4 pak of 30 cal bins with plastic crate.

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Well I keep watching youtube and reading the forums and coming up with more questions lol!

 

Everything should be here this week, I do have all the materials and my 750 should be here today according to UPS.  I still have to set everything up and decide where I want to put it all.

 

I am trying to decide on a loading recipe to start with so determining OAL seems like the right place to start.  I found this posted and has some pretty good information in it from Wobbly the moderator over there.

https://czfirearms.us/index.php?topic=34225.0

 

 

I followed the directions to determine MAX chamber length in my S2 with the BBI 147g bullets I bought and come up with 1.092-1.101 with the 3-4 times I tested it.  I also plunk tested two factory rounds I have used extensively in the gun 115g Blazer and 135g Fedsyntech.  Both fit the chamber with no issues and measured 1.15 for 115g Blazer and 1.12 for the Syntech.  I am guessing the flat nose of the 147g is the reason for the shorter 1.09 length I am getting with pushing the bullet into the case to get a max measurement?

 

So if my max chamber length with the BBI bullet is 1.10 that would give me a max loading OAL of 1.085 or lets say 1.080 to be safe?

 

So using Titegroup with Hogdgon load data they give 1.10 COL with 147g Hornady XTP and 3.2grains as low side and 3.6 as high side.  But what do I go by for 1.080 with a BBI bullet?

 

That seems tight, should I have the chamber reamed to allow for a 1.10 OAL with this bullet when a 1.15 115g FMJ fits with zero issues?

 

 

0916201434.jpg

0916201432_HDR.jpg

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Bullet profile affects the OAL. Measuring a factory round is useless because you aren't loading those components. Under a coated 147gr bullet 3.0gr-3.2gr of Titegroup should make minor. Load to the max determined OAL.

 

 

918905465_CZOAL.jpeg.719ee2ad41b71207c51e8ed8120a4a05.jpeg

 

480081102_DetermineOAL.gif.01bc87f4932444d17d20f576fc5d598f.gif

Edited by 4n2t0
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3 hours ago, 4n2t0 said:

Bullet profile affects the OAL. Measuring a factory round is useless because you aren't loading those components. Under a coated 147gr bullet 3.0gr-3.2gr of Titegroup should make minor. Load to the max determined OAL.

 

 

918905465_CZOAL.jpeg.719ee2ad41b71207c51e8ed8120a4a05.jpeg

 

480081102_DetermineOAL.gif.01bc87f4932444d17d20f576fc5d598f.gif

 

The bullet and casing I have in the pic with the calipers is the bullet I plan to load in an already fired case that I fit to the chamber of the barrel in my S2 using the method that Wobbly described in the CZ thread I posted a link to.  I just measured factory rounds to see what they measured for comparison.

 

I checked it again and 1.092-.097 seems to be what I am getting the majority of times.  So back that off .015 for clearance and would be 1.080 to be safe place to start?  Using 1.080 with 3.2grains of titegroup should be a good starting point for me then or should I start with 3.0 grains with that short of a OAL?

 

Thanks

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On 9/16/2020 at 10:09 PM, ML123 said:

I checked it again and 1.092-.097 seems to be what I am getting the majority of times.  So back that off .015 for clearance and would be 1.080 to be safe place to start?  Using 1.080 with 3.2grains of titegroup should be a good starting point for me then or should I start with 3.0 grains with that short of a OAL?

Do you have a chrono to verify the difference in PF/velocity between 3.2 and 3.0gr?  Aside from using a chrono to get a somewhat accurate measurement, I cannot comment on TG as I use a different powder.

 

1.08 is not unreasonable for a CZ.  My TSO requires an OAL of 1.08-1.09 for some 9mm bullet profiles to plunk/spin.

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Thanks Muncie21, I do plan to chrono the rounds but I dont have one currently.  I have a 3gun match tomorrow and was hoping to have a few rounds done to take with me to test and chrono since they will have one there but my schedule isnt going to allow that to happen today. 

 

I did get my presses mounted and the Dillon mostly set up on a bench in my garage/shop.  I may build a dedicated reloading room in my basement this winter.

 

I have to install the dies and adjust them.  I am using Lee dies since the Dillon ones have been on BO for awhile now.  I just read somewhere that the Lee dies can be a little short for the Dillon 650 but there is a work around with mounting it, I think it is mostly the bullet seating die that can be an issue.

 

My plan is to run 100 rounds at 1.08 OAL 3.2g TG and 147g Coated BBI.  I am going to measure, weigh and run them all through the Hundo case gauge then go and shoot them.  Hopefully it all goes well.

0917202039.jpg

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On 9/16/2020 at 6:33 PM, 4n2t0 said:

Bullet profile affects the OAL. Measuring a factory round is useless because you aren't loading those components. Under a coated 147gr bullet 3.0gr-3.2gr of Titegroup should make minor. Load to the max determined OAL.

 

 

918905465_CZOAL.jpeg.719ee2ad41b71207c51e8ed8120a4a05.jpeg

 

480081102_DetermineOAL.gif.01bc87f4932444d17d20f576fc5d598f.gif

I printed this out and it hangs above my presses!! This is an excellent visual example to make sure your reload fits the barrel of the gun you intend to use it with. Just had gotten a new bullet in (DG coated) and used it the same way as my PD FMJ or ACME coated, but the reload did not work in my HK, but they were fine with my 1911. So, I checked, and the reload sticks just a tad out, like in picture D top. So, I adjusted the col and now it fits perfect. The original PD and ACME were 1.27, but the DG needed 1.22 - quite a difference. Lesson learned and I will always check in the future that the reload fits the chamber of the gun it will be used with. Or, make your reloads so they will fit all your guns.

Great visual material, and everyone should keep a copy.

Edited by RudyVey
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I got 15 rounds loaded last night and took them to the indoor range today and fired 10 of them.  All 10 fired and cycled without issue and are a lot easier to shoot than the factory Fed Syntech 135g.  I did not get to chrono them at an indoor range and they had a CCW class there with all other lanes booked, fortunately a nice gentleman and the RO let me squeeze in to shoot the 10 rds so I was in and out fast.

 

And of course I now have more questions lol! 

 

My current set up: BBI 47g coated bullets, mixed once fired range brass, 3.2g Titegroup, CCI small pistol primers, 1.08x OAL, 3.75 crimp.

 

1. I might be beveling the case mouth to much I am seeing brass shavings when seating the bullet?  I have it set up to bevel at about 3.87 and I my crimp set at 3.75 to 3.76.  I did put together a bunch of dummy rounds when setting it up and I pulled the bullets to check the crimp and reuse them.  I am leaving a slight indentation on the bullet but not cutting into the coating or exposing the lead.

 

2. OAL, I measured all of the rounds and they range from 1.079 all the way to 1.090 with most being in the 1.080-1.084 range.  The one round I had at 1.090 would not plunk in my CZ chamber, it also did not gauge in the Hundo case gauge either and may have just been a bad round.  I had one round at 1.087 that did plunk just fine and fired with no issues.  Is this normal to have such a spread on OAL?  Should I dial the seating die back some to accommodate for this or am I doing something wrong?  I have Lee Deluxe die set and using a separate seating and crimp dies.

 

3. I had two rounds hang up in the Hundo case gauge the 1.090 round I mentioned above and one that was 1.082 that did seat in the case gauge but was tight.  Both had a 3.75 crimp.  I am trying to understand why I had two rounds to hang up in the case gauge and not plunk in my CZ barrel?  While the 1.090 round could have been to long it also failed the case gauge and I could not measure why with the calipers?  BTW the two rounds that would not plunk in my CZ barrel fit just fine in a Glock 17 barrel but I get the feeling just about anything will plunk in a Glock barrel. 

 

I picked up a few of the casing I fired to inspect the primers, if anyone with experience can take a look and give me some feedback they look fine to me?

 

Thanks everyone for taking time to respond to this thread, the info provided along with info I found in prior threads and searching on this site has been invaluable.   The Dillon manual leaves a lot to be desired, the videos are a little better but they dont show in detail for a newb some of the steps they are going through on the setup.

 

0924201827.jpg

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  • 2 weeks later...

Well as a update.  I loaded 200rds and fired them all without incident last weekend.  I did chamber check everyone before hand.  They actually shoot really nice noticeably flatter than the 135g Fed Syntech I was using.

 

I was chasing some other issues with wide variations in OAL which I mentioned above.  It appears I am having issues with keeping the die locking rings tightened and the sizing die came loose and was likely the culprit.   I was also having issues with brass shaving and switched to a Dillon seating die which does seem to work better.  I also ordered a MBF powder funnel for case expansion.

 

I am close, a few more tweaks and upgrades and I hope to crank out some rounds with consistency this weekend.  I want to use them for an upcoming match on the 25th.  I am waiting on the new powder funnel and a decapping pin for the Lee sizing die from Midway which should be here before the weekend.   I read a few threads about lose dies and it seems its not an uncommon issue with Dillon and their die rings especially if you use there wrenches. 

 

I have the o-ringed Lee die rings and may add one underneath the tool head for the dies that have enough thread top and bottom.  If not I will tighten them with a proper tool and maybe add teflon tape to the threads on the die in the tool head.

 

All I can remember when tightening them with that chessey wrench is Gary saying it not a SBC and you dont need to Tq it to 90lb/ft lol! 

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