40cal open

[AverageJoeShooting]

3 hours ago, Explosiveo said:

"Doesn’t 38 SC allow you to run coated bullets"

No, 38sc has nothing to do with being able to run coated bullets. People don't run coated bullets in open because of two things.

1. The bullets are pushed at a high velocity and coated bullets will sometimes break apart at those speeds.

2. Coated bullets tend to lead up the compensator which can be a nightmare to clean and can also be dangerous if not cleaned for extended periods of time.

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 I run coated lead bullets shooting 38sc and have no issues at all

 

throw the comp and barrel into the ultrasonic every 5 matches or so and it never leads up.

 

Chris Tilley also runs coated bullets.  

[falconew]

I know a lot of guys that run the coated bullets at local matches.  Like you guys said clean the comp. 

[Explosiveo]

Well you could do the same in 9 major then. Not something I would do.

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[zzt]

There is some misinformation in this thread.  So I will attempt to correct it.

 

First off, 40 major is perfectly safe and you will not blow out brass unless you do something incredibly stupid.  I shot 40 major for years.  Case capacity is such that you can use any of the slower powders you want and still stay under SAAMI pressure limits.  My main gun had two 3/16" poppels and a 4-chamber, 5- port comp.  10.1gr SWMP under a 155 made 172 PF and was the flattest and softest major load I've ever shot.  I started in 40 because I had been shooting Limited, and all my buddies were complaining about loading 9mm to major.  Disadvantages are bullets cost one cent more.  You do fit three fewer rounds in the mag, but I never felt that was a disadvantage.  26+1 was fine for all the medium courses.  For the long courses you have to reload even starting with 29+1, so no big deal.  In the past four years I can remember only one stage where reloading would cost you time.  On everything else there are always spots where you can reload on the move without costing time.

 

I shoot 9mm now.  Even starting with a big stick, I still plan on reloading.  It lets me shoot faster and make make-ups if needed without worrying about running dry.  I did the same with 40 major.

 

As I just posted in a different thread, 9mm major is case capacity limited.  You can get it to run flat or soft, but not both at the same time without compromise.  I now shoot 9mm major and minor.  I have no reloading difficulties with with either.

 

38S/SC has more case capacity than 9mm so you have more powder choices.  Plus you are loading longer, so you need more powder to make PF.  More powder means more gas, which means flatter and softer.  I agonized over 9mm vs. 38SC when I built my current Open gun.  All of my matches are essentially lost brass, so the 15 cents vs. 5 cents for brass decide me on 9mm.   Yes, I give up some flexibility, but the $1000 I save per year is twice as much as I spend on once-fired, same head stamp, fully processed 9mm brass. 

 

Some additional advice.  Shoot JHPs or thick plated and you will never have to clean your comp.  After 10,000 rounds I could still see the machining marks on the bottom of my comp ports.

[Boomstick303]

I know various knowledgeable people using coated bullets with 38 SC.

 

 

Edited July 13, 2020 by Boomstick303

[ChuckS]

The thread is about "40 Cal open". Lets not rehash your theology on coated bullets.

[Boomstick303]

Off topic deleted post.

 

Edited July 13, 2020 by Boomstick303

[BLUTO]

30 minutes ago, zzt said:

There is some misinformation in this thread.  So I will attempt to correct it.

 

First off, 40 major is perfectly safe and you will not blow out brass unless you do something incredibly stupid.  I shot 40 major for years.  Case capacity is such that you can use any of the slower powders you want and still stay under SAAMI pressure limits.  My main gun had two 3/16" poppels and a 4-chamber, 5- port comp.  10.1gr SWMP under a 155 made 172 PF and was the flattest and softest major load I've ever shot.  I started in 40 because I had been shooting Limited, and all my buddies were complaining about loading 9mm to major.  Disadvantages are bullets cost one cent more.  You do fit three fewer rounds in the mag, but I never felt that was a disadvantage.  26+1 was fine for all the medium courses.  For the long courses you have to reload even starting with 29+1, so no big deal.  In the past four years I can remember only one stage where reloading would cost you time.  On everything else there are always spots where you can reload on the move without costing time.

 

I shoot 9mm now.  Even starting with a big stick, I still plan on reloading.  It lets me shoot faster and make make-ups if needed without worrying about running dry.  I did the same with 40 major.

 

As I just posted in a different thread, 9mm major is case capacity limited.  You can get it to run flat or soft, but not both at the same time without compromise.  I now shoot 9mm major and minor.  I have no reloading difficulties with with either.

 

38S/SC has more case capacity than 9mm so you have more powder choices.  Plus you are loading longer, so you need more powder to make PF.  More powder means more gas, which means flatter and softer.  I agonized over 9mm vs. 38SC when I built my current Open gun.  All of my matches are essentially lost brass, so the 15 cents vs. 5 cents for brass decide me on 9mm.   Yes, I give up some flexibility, but the $1000 I save per year is twice as much as I spend on once-fired, same head stamp, fully processed 9mm brass. 

 

Some additional advice.  Shoot JHPs or thick plated and you will never have to clean your comp.  After 10,000 rounds I could still see the machining marks on the bottom of my comp ports.

All true!  I was getting Glocked brass and didnt have a roll sizer so I did indeed have a couple KBOOM's - I learned!  I use Montana Gold and I have never cleaned a comp (brush it out and be done).  Anecdotally I heard form some of the older guys that the 40 recoil did a number on the frame so it wasnt long before I found a great deal on a pair of Brazos 38's and was done with it.  As I say I wish I'd have gone with 9 and just slowed down the Mark 7 to not spill like all the other major loaders

 

[zzt]

2 hours ago, BLUTO said:

As I say I wish I'd have gone with 9 and just slowed down the Mark 7 to not spill like all the other major loaders

 

Just switch to Shooters World Major Pistol powder (or AA7) and you won't get the spillage in 9mm.  Also, all you have to do is rebarrel and retune the extractor.

 

BTW, 40 major is easy on the frame.  My load required a 9 lb. recoil spring and there was zero frame battering.

Edited July 13, 2020 by zzt

[regor]

I've seen enough 25-28 round shoot on the move stages locally with HHFs >10 to make me think hard about whether the handicap of 26+1 is worth dealing with. This past weekend had two, one was 26 rounds and winning time was 9.9, the other was 27 rounds and winning time was 12.1. Sure, both of those are doable with 26+1 without a reload, but they were technical enough that I would not have wanted to shoot them without a couple makeup shots on deck. It wouldn't kill your match to have to toss a reload in, and if you aren't already on the faster end of the competition it will matter less, but it'd be enough to make me think twice about shooting .40 Open when 9 Major is so widely available. 

[zzt]

42 minutes ago, regor said:

I've seen enough 25-28 round shoot on the move stages locally with HHFs >10 to make me think hard about whether the handicap of 26+1 is worth dealing with. This past weekend had two, one was 26 rounds and winning time was 9.9, the other was 27 rounds and winning time was 12.1. Sure, both of those are doable with 26+1 without a reload, but they were technical enough that I would not have wanted to shoot them without a couple makeup shots on deck. It wouldn't kill your match to have to toss a reload in, and if you aren't already on the faster end of the competition it will matter less, but it'd be enough to make me think twice about shooting .40 Open when 9 Major is so widely available. 

 

The matches around me tend not to have those hoser stages.  Most can only host 5 or 6 stages, so they tend to make them long and technical.  If we had more stages such as you describe, I 'd go for capacity.  However, even with 29+1 on the 27 round stage, I'd plan on reloading if there was a spot to do so without costing time.