kurtm Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 M.B.E. You are right about the carrier action initiating the unlock and eject sequence by compressing the carrier spring! Lets look at a few things though. First there is NO standard that I have EVER seen in this inertia spring, they varry widely both in length, coil width and coils per inch...so to speak. A long time ago I ordered an Italian boat load of them and selected the ones that were the closest to what I thought was about right. When I ran into a Benelli that "just wouldn't run" I would play with this spring and get them to work every time! AS LONG AS IT DIDN"T HAVE A PISTOL GRIP STOCK!! An entirely different problem. Next lets look at how hard it is to accelerate a mass with a given force. In this case lets use the given force to be a 1 1/8 ounce or 32 gram payload being accelerated to 1200 feet per second as that particular mass mover. Now the hevier the mass the SLOWER it reacts to the the given force, as that force is VERY limited in durration. The lighter mass will react faster to the given force, compressing the inertia spring faster, if not as much as the heavier mass, and I believe it is still about the same compression as we are actually over "forcing" the system anyway. This is just like using a "speed hammer" in an AR with a light hammer spring. When using a standard weight hammer you will get light hits, if you use a lightened hammer you get really great primer hits, because the mass can accelerate faster for the given force Now this is where the lighter carrier becomes a GOOD thing. Once the spring compresses and forces the carrier to rear there is less moving mass to stop on the back of the receiver hence less felt recoil. Now the STANDARD recoil return spring/ main spring. can accelerate that lighter mass back forward faster, better cycle time. As for the bolt handle, I cut down the stock one so it is just the barest minimum to manually actuate to remove yet MORE mass from the system. Not use a heavy one! I have been told time and again that a Benelli won't function if the but is placed on a wall or phone pole. once ballanced and with a good recoil pad, even the stock Benelli pad will do they will run all day on a pole or cement block wall, but there is a bit to ballancing the system with inertia spring and carrier weight if the gun was finicky to start with. KURTM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3GunF1Guy Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 AS LONG AS IT DIDN"T HAVE A PISTOL GRIP STOCK!! An entirely different problem. kurtm, Don't you shoot a pistol grip Benneli? And how in the he!! do you get one to run? I have one as a backup and even with the bolt lightened by 1oz and the recoil spring replaced with a standard spring, I still can still make it jam "on command" Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Shot Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 KurtM - so what are the magic parameters for the inertia spring (or are you keeping that a secret)? Should I be calling Brownell's and ordering a bunch of them? Thanks, 5Shot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 I have NEVER run a pistol grip on ANY Benelli that I own!!! I know I have posted a whole bunch of info on how to make them run, so I hate to say it but do a search, I just don't feel like typing it all again. I forget the parameters for the inertia spring, but will spec one latter and post the dimentions I felt were right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Payne Posted February 27, 2006 Share Posted February 27, 2006 I would also like to know why the pistol grip would cause more problems. I have the pistol grip and when at a shoot over the weekend I had several malfunctions. The shell would not be all the way out of the mag. tube and the lifter was trying to take it to the chamber causing the gun to jam up. It is the Tactical version with the heavy recoil spring. When the gun jammed it was shooting 1 1/8th oz. shot over 3 1/4 dram loads. (not real light stuff). When I shot full power slugs it worked great. When I got home I changed the follower from the aftermarket metal one that came with the extended tube, back to the orange plastic factory Benelli one. Went back out to the range and shot 1oz. over 3 dram loads and they worked perfectly. Even loaded 10 into the gun and fired as fast as I could and I couldn't make it burp. Is the problem the pistol grip, the magazine spring (brand new), the heavy tactical recoil spring (standard one enroute from Benny Hill), or maybe just holding on too tight? Or could it be the inertia spring? I still haven't gotten 100 rounds through it yet either, that might help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyBoyElroy Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Kurt, your experience and time spent explaining are greatly appreciated. I have one other question if you please: How does Benelli's "Light Load Recoil Spring Kit" fit into using a lightened carrier? Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny hill Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 The pistol grip stock has more drop at the heel.If the star's are alinged right, it will run lite loads. Main cause is when you tighten the nut that holds the stock to the mainspring tube it will flex the tube slightly & cause the spring & plunger tube to rub & presto a jam. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Would loosening it up help at all? How much do you guy lighten the carrier and can you buy a lightened carrier so you can just swap them out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 The light recoil spring will work, but you will occationally get a failure to feed due to the nose of the shell being slightly off center of the rear of the chamber as it doesn't have quite enough power to "squash" the shell past this point. ( really hoggin out the rear of the chamber will allieviate this, but why do it just to run a spring? The other thing you will run into is failures to eject as the carrier speed is now quite fast and occasionally the shell will bounce past the ejecter. ALL of these problems ARE present in the stock configuration we just never hear from our water fouling friends, who happen to be unlucky enough to get one from the factory with the light spring already in it. Benelli has NEVER been consistent as to which spring goes into which shotgun. My trusty M1 Super 90 Field came with a "light" recoil spring, with a 28" barrel intended for Water Fowling. I once worked on a M1 Tactical Model that ALSO had a light spring...from the factory! Bennys got it pegged when it comes to the pistol grip stock, and loose doesn't help!! Matter of fact Scott, I bet when it goes bang you are unconsiously pulling on the pistol grip which will stop them on a dime!! KURT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Thanks Kurt. I've been shooting it with my thumb in front of the pistol grip a bit and it doens't jam that way, but it is just awkward, so I'm on the look out for a straight stock that isn't too expensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyBoyElroy Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Benny and Kurt, do either of you guys lighten bolt carriers for other people? Like moi? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry White Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 (edited) Benny and Kurt, do either of you guys lighten bolt carriers for other people? Like moi? Benny will do your bolt, call him at 361-241-1091(Triangle Shooting Sport). All you have to send is the bolt but he has a package deal for these guns that really makes them work. He will be at SMM3G.------Larry Edited March 1, 2006 by lkytx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyBoyElroy Posted February 28, 2006 Share Posted February 28, 2006 Will do. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 Length = 1.060 + - .030, coil width .135 + - .002 I woundn't buy any unless the one I had was messing up, as I have never seen one go bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mike_pinto Posted March 1, 2006 Share Posted March 1, 2006 But Kurt, the Benelli guys said it themselves.. We Americans shoot them too much!! I say we all switch to H&R Single Shot .410's and call it good!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5Shot Posted March 10, 2006 Share Posted March 10, 2006 Length = 1.060 + - .030, coil width .135 + - .002 I woundn't buy any unless the one I had was messing up, as I have never seen one go bad. Thanks for the info Kurt. 5Shot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
homeinvader Posted March 20, 2006 Share Posted March 20, 2006 (edited) I have to say how much I love threads like this. The technical info from Kurt and Benny is first rate and I just drink it up. Truly fascinating guys, thanks! Edited March 20, 2006 by homeinvader Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny hill Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 Next time you see myself & kurt at a match, bring beer, & we'll drink that right up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted March 21, 2006 Share Posted March 21, 2006 Benny's may be bigger, but I can hold more in volume The darker the beer the better! KURTM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnfphd Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 The pistol grip stock has more drop at the heel.If the star's are alinged right, it will run lite loads. Main cause is when you tighten the nut that holds the stock to the mainspring tube it will flex the tube slightly & cause the spring & plunger tube to rub & presto a jam. Will this problem (tube flex) occur if you use the shim in the comfortech stock to increase the drop at heel? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rr4406pak Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 Benny, what about shooting 3" duck loads in a lightened-bolt M1? Good or bad idea? I use mine for both and don't want to tear anything up. I'd be interested in the answer to this one... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
benny hill Posted December 8, 2008 Share Posted December 8, 2008 No big deal, shoot away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
walangkatapat Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 I will lighten your bolt & return to you in about 4 days for $80.00 includeing shipping. I have done most of the top shooters guns & know how much is enough & not to much. That's more than reasonable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
00bullitt Posted December 9, 2008 Share Posted December 9, 2008 I will lighten your bolt & return to you in about 4 days for $80.00 includeing shipping. I have done most of the top shooters guns & know how much is enough & not to much. That's more than reasonable! That was also in 2005. I think hes up to $110 now and it still makes it back to you in a 7 day turn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rtr Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Two questions. How much weight is removed from the bolt? Can anyone quantify how much felt recoil is reduced? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now