23+1 wont run

[Racinready300ex]

48 minutes ago, Jerome said:

I just added Grams springs and followers to my mags with TTI base pads. One holds 23 comfortably and one is a bit tight.

 

Today I live fire tested starting and reloading 23 +1 a couple of times and they ran fine. I do use the heavier recoil spring ( 14,15lb?) and 130pf ammo.

 

I will do more testing before considering using in a match. However, More important is

Lowsc3 bringing up that it may "easily bend the ejector". Yes, that's a hugh concern I didn't consider.

 

That is pretty unlikely United you're doing slide lock reloads

[OPENB]

I get 23 in mine with stock springs/followers and TTI bases. I load with a LULA, and don’t have any feeding or  reloading problems. I use the 12# spring. 8 mags set up this way. I’ll count myself lucky I guess. 

[Jerome]

I might have been able to get 23 but 22 was tight with the stock spring and followers. I always ran 21 at matches.

 

Out of curiosity, have you gauged your mags? To fit the gauge, I had to do a bit of filing on the ones with TTI bases and the one I have with a Springer Base.

[motosapiens]

18 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

No such thing as a reload that doesn't take actual time. 

 

It doesn't bother me if you believe that, but i have tested it in live fire numerous times, in numerous scenarios. Sure, you can contrive a stage where you never actually have to stop shooting, if you are comfortable shooting on the move, but some folks will still put up fast times by doing more shooting while stopped, and if you use those 2 steps to reload to get closer to the targets, you can shoot faster once you get there.

 

And there's no question that you can shoot faster and more confidently if you're not having to keep track of how many makeup rounds you have left. There's also no question that even if you can execute 9 out of 10 times without having a problem, that one time you do run dry at the wrong time is going to cost FAR more than a planned and well-executed reload.

[Racinready300ex]

1 hour ago, motosapiens said:

 

It doesn't bother me if you believe that, but i have tested it in live fire numerous times, in numerous scenarios. Sure, you can contrive a stage where you never actually have to stop shooting, if you are comfortable shooting on the move, but some folks will still put up fast times by doing more shooting while stopped, and if you use those 2 steps to reload to get closer to the targets, you can shoot faster once you get there.

 

And there's no question that you can shoot faster and more confidently if you're not having to keep track of how many makeup rounds you have left. There's also no question that even if you can execute 9 out of 10 times without having a problem, that one time you do run dry at the wrong time is going to cost FAR more than a planned and well-executed reload.

 

I'm not contriving up some stage, I just mentioned a stage I shot last week and will likely shoot again later this month. I guess I should hope to get to your level someday. I can't drop my gun nail a reload in two steps faster then I can just transition the gun straight over to the next target while taking two steps. Certainly not 10 out of 10 times like you can. 

 

I'm sure there will be 4-500 CO shooters in that match, I still bet that the stage winner wont reload. You can take the spare and play it safe, I'll take my chances. Not gonna win playing it safe in a 5 stage match.

 

 

 

[zhunter]

1 hour ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

I'm not contriving up some stage, I just mentioned a stage I shot last week and will likely shoot again later this month. I guess I should hope to get to your level someday. I can't drop my gun nail a reload in two steps faster then I can just transition the gun straight over to the next target while taking two steps. Certainly not 10 out of 10 times like you can. 

 

I'm sure there will be 4-500 CO shooters in that match, I still bet that the stage winner wont reload. You can take the spare and play it safe, I'll take my chances. Not gonna win playing it safe in a 5 stage match.

 

 

 

What is the likely HF for this stage?  Sounds like a potentially high HF stage, but a low points stage.  What are the likely stage points differences between the two plans?  Is your gamble worth a possible 3-6 stage points if your perfect run scenario played out?

 

WWBD?  
What Would Ben Do? (For those that don’t do acronyms) 

[Racinready300ex]

46 minutes ago, zhunter said:

What is the likely HF for this stage?  Sounds like a potentially high HF stage, but a low points stage.  What are the likely stage points differences between the two plans?  Is your gamble worth a possible 3-6 stage points if your perfect run scenario played out?

 

WWBD?  
What Would Ben Do? (For those that don’t do acronyms) 

 

105 point stage Current HHF for CO is 9.6 that shooters time was 10.09 only about 45 shooters have shot it so far. For reference the top Open and PCC shooters where .5 seconds faster and we know they didn't reload. Top limited shooter (local GM) was 11.48, bet he reloaded.

 

My guess, Ben wouldn't reload with 23 or 24 in the gun. But I'm not Ben.

[zhunter]

9 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

105 point stage Current HHF for CO is 9.6 that shooters time was 10.09 only about 45 shooters have shot it so far. For reference the top Open and PCC shooters where .5 seconds faster and we know they didn't reload. Top limited shooter (local GM) was 11.48, bet he reloaded.

 

My guess, Ben wouldn't reload with 23 or 24 in the gun. But I'm not Ben.

Are you a GM that has a chance to match or closely match the HHF?  If not you should  just man up and reload 

Edited March 12, 2020 by zhunter

[Racinready300ex]

12 minutes ago, zhunter said:

Are you a GM that has a chance to match or closely match the HHF?  If not you should  just man up and reload 

 

I am G in a couple divisions but i'm still U in CO.

[zhunter]

Then you are likely to be 8-15% below HHF at best

 

You are in the 96.6- 89.25 Stage points range in a best case scenario all the while gambling 

 

Decisions Decisions 

[Racinready300ex]

29 minutes ago, zhunter said:

Then you are likely to be 8-15% below HHF at best

 

You are in the 96.6- 89.25 Stage points range in a best case scenario all the while gambling 

 

Decisions Decisions 

 

If you need more then 3 make up shots you lost anyway. Swing away. 

 

[motosapiens]

6 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

I guess I should hope to get to your level someday. I can't drop my gun nail a reload in two steps faster then I can just transition the gun straight over to the next target while taking two steps.

 

 

Sounds to me like you have identified some low-hanging fruit to train on.

[motosapiens]

2 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

If you need more then 3 make up shots you lost anyway. Swing away. 

 

 

this is true-ish, in the context of a single-stage, but you can easily take 3 makup shots on a hoser stage and have it cost you in the neighborhood of just over half a second. Not really a big deal in the context of a match. OTOH, an unplanned dry reload on a such a stage could be 2-3 seconds or more, potentially a disaster on a high hitfactor stage. Are you trying to win stages? or matches?

 

Of course you know your own shooting, and whether you tend to take alot of makeup shots or not, and whether knowing your shots are limited affects your speed and aggression, so I would advise just doing what you believe will work. For me personally, I've found that worrying about getting an extra round in (even in limited where it makes a bigger difference) does not yield enough benefit to be worth the bandwidth.

[Racinready300ex]

I think I found the problem.

[Racinready300ex]

It's amazing how on Enos a simple equipment question turns into a debate about how many rounds you need and if you should reload or not. Plenty of armchair GM's around to tell you, you'll never need a extra round in your gun and what you need to improve at, maybe suggest you man up and learn to reload. The OP's skill level and experience must to be brought into question clearly. All with little to no input related to the original question.

 

Thank you to those who stayed on point. If anyone finds this thread and is interested in the outcome. One of my mags is starting to work, but it's still to tight for my taste. The mags I bought where labeled as a "23 round kit" I thought I read it included the grams springs. Looking at my followers and comparing to others these are factory. Rereading the product description it doesn't say grams parts are included. So I just failed to read, probably just assumed having been told grams are needed for 23 to work. A set of grams internals will likely give me that tiny bit of room I need to run 100%. Not really a big deal.

[Heliarclee]

You could try inserting and dropping the mag a few times at make ready to see if it settles the rounds in there a little more.  I heard one of the guys on the “make ready podcast” saying they do this and it helps when running a mag thats stuffed full +1 at the start.  

[Racinready300ex]

33 minutes ago, Heliarclee said:

You could try inserting and dropping the mag a few times at make ready to see if it settles the rounds in there a little more.  I heard one of the guys on the “make ready podcast” saying they do this and it helps when running a mag thats stuffed full +1 at the start.  

 

I heard that too, and it makes sense. I also never think of it lol. Certainly something I could easily add to my make read.

[Racinready300ex]

41 minutes ago, Heliarclee said:

You could try inserting and dropping the mag a few times at make ready to see if it settles the rounds in there a little more.  I heard one of the guys on the “make ready podcast” saying they do this and it helps when running a mag thats stuffed full +1 at the start.  

 

Something else I do. When you load up and before I put the last round in I'll compress the rounds with the uplulu several times. I think this probably accomplishes the same thing.

[obsessiveshooter]

Smacking a mag down on its base plate usually makes it easier to get the last round in for me. I'd rather do that than jam it in the pistol several times. Also, I can't help but wonder if it would make a difference to polish the surface on that long rib on the bottom of the slide that drags on the top round.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk

[Racinready300ex]

3 minutes ago, obsessiveshooter said:

Smacking a mag down on its base plate usually makes it easier to get the last round in for me. I'd rather do that than jam it in the pistol several times. Also, I can't help but wonder if it would make a difference to polish the surface on that long rib on the bottom of the slide that drags on the top round.

Sent from my SM-N960U using Tapatalk
 

 

Considered the same thing. Certainly wouldn't hurt anything.

[motosapiens]

10 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:

One of my mags is starting to work, but it's still to tight for my taste. The mags I bought where labeled as a "23 round kit" I thought I read it included the grams springs. Looking at my followers and comparing to others these are factory. Rereading the product description it doesn't say grams parts are included. So I just failed to read, probably just assumed having been told grams are needed for 23 to work. A set of grams internals will likely give me that tiny bit of room I need to run 100%. Not really a big deal.

 

all's well that ends well. fwiw, i found that the grams follower hung up on the slide-lock on my xdm when dropping the mag. I probably could have trimmed it, (follower, or slide-lock)but i didn't feel like screwing with it. It worked in a cz without any issues, so obviously not all slide-locks are the same.

 

If you can get it to work 105%, then it makes sense to do it.

Edited March 13, 2020 by motosapiens

[Racinready300ex]

16 hours ago, motosapiens said:

 

all's well that ends well. fwiw, i found that the grams follower hung up on the slide-lock on my xdm when dropping the mag. I probably could have trimmed it, (follower, or slide-lock)but i didn't feel like screwing with it. It worked in a cz without any issues, so obviously not all slide-locks are the same.

 

If you can get it to work 105%, then it makes sense to do it.

 

For sure if it doesn't work every time I'm not doing it. To many people out up with 90% reliability. That's just not acceptable IMO

 

[Lowsc3]

On 3/13/2020 at 8:25 AM, Racinready300ex said:

It's amazing how on Enos a simple equipment question turns into a debate about how many rounds you need and if you should reload or not. Plenty of armchair GM's around to tell you, you'll never need a extra round in your gun and what you need to improve at, maybe suggest you man up and learn to reload. The OP's skill level and experience must to be brought into question clearly. All with little to no input related to the original question.

 

Thank you to those who stayed on point. If anyone finds this thread and is interested in the outcome. One of my mags is starting to work, but it's still to tight for my taste. The mags I bought where labeled as a "23 round kit" I thought I read it included the grams springs. Looking at my followers and comparing to others these are factory. Rereading the product description it doesn't say grams parts are included. So I just failed to read, probably just assumed having been told grams are needed for 23 to work. A set of grams internals will likely give me that tiny bit of room I need to run 100%. Not really a big deal.

Yea and gotta let it wear in a bit first. When i first did put them together the 23rd was rock solid no movement in the mag, after some use it gave some more wiggle room. 

[zhunter]

Just checked all mine in the gauge, and.....

 

 

It was a perfect fit for all 5