USPSA limited handgun choice (40 S&W caliber)

[Sean_ht]

Hi guys, could you please guide me on picking a handgun to shoot at USPSA limited division (40 S&W caliber), among the following options:

1- CZ TS orange, 2- EAA (Tanfoglio) Limited Custom Xtreme, 3- RIA pro Match with HCG package, and 4- Atlas Titan.

 

I am not looking for buy a handgun now, and building my skills on it, and then upgrade and spend some extra time&money to adjust to the new platform.  Saying that, I don't want to pay extra money for something that has virtually no additional positive effect on accuracy, recoil management, trigger control, ... I should add, look really does not matter.

 

In the end, thanks in advance for your guide, and if you have any other suggestion beyond the four handgun I mentioned, I do appreciate if you share your thought.

 

[B_RAD]

It depends on how much you want to spend. Since you've listed options that start around $1700 and go up to $3800. 

 

Also, mags are going to be another factor as they also start lower and go up in price. Not to mention, some will require maintenance and others will require tuning. 

 

Saying that, personally I would exclude the RIA from the start. I've never actually shot one but I've never heard much good about them and I don't think I've ever heard anyone running one successfully. I'm sure someone will chime in and say I'm worng. Maybe I am?  

 

The 2011 from a well know builder would be my choice if I wasn't thinking with my pocket book. I've had two Titans. The first one was one of the best handguns I've ever owned. The second one was sub par IMO. 

 

I've shot the TSO and the Tanfo Limited. They're not bad but I prefer the heavy 2011 setup. 

 

You might try to shoot each before you decide. I know that can be a pain but it might save you some money. 

 

Though, since you're not wanting to buy a cheaper option now then upgrade later, I would recommend the Titan! Nobody regrets buying one of those over a TSO/Tanfo from a performance standpoint. 

 

 

[Brooke]

I agree with the above. Take the RIA off that list. As an owner of Atlas's I can suggest you go with Titan or Nemesis but the CZ TS orange is a good choice also. I have not run the TS but my Shadow 2's are great guns. Atlas has been great to me both in initial gun performance and in customer service when needed. I hear good stuff about other custom makers also but be careful. Some big names are not so hot. 

 

For me its Atlas because they treat me like I want to be treated. Lets hope they stay that way.

[Sean_ht]

@Brooke and @B_RAD, thanks for the inputs. I basically want to know if the difference in price can be justified by the better design/built. While design of a handgun plays an important role in generating recoil and accuracy, I don't want to waste money on some exaggerated benefits. 

 

 

[B_RAD]

I'm gonna be straight up. A 2011 that's built like the Titan will be the shitt! Mags are going to be at least double the price and are going to require at least double the attention to get/keep running.

 

Saying that, I would choose the heavy style 2011 everyday compared to a TSO based solely on the gun. 

 

Is it worth the extra $2k?  Only you can answer that question. 

 

Now, if you were chosing between a cheaper, plastic grip 2011, I'd say the gap would be closer. I'd still probably want the 2011 though. 

 

 

 

[aandabooks]

I'd say that if you have the money to spend go ahead and get the Atlas.  They are very nice guns that are built well for the money.  Just be aware that there will be some magazine prices that run higher and maintenance to be taken care of.  Now if you are going to be going to majors and spending the money to travel and shoot then you'll need to figure out the backup gun situation.  Once you go for the Atlas, a plastic 2011 is not going to be nearly as good or feel the same.

 

The TSO is a phenomenal firearm and I don't see a problem with ever finding that you would be limited by the gun.  For the price you can get setup with 2 of them for what you would spend on one Atlas.  Now you have your backup/training gun and a match gun.  Magazines are much less finicky and they run out of the box.    

 

 

[HCH]

1 hour ago, aandabooks said:

I'd say that if you have the money to spend go ahead and get the Atlas.  They are very nice guns that are built well for the money.  Just be aware that there will be some magazine prices that run higher and maintenance to be taken care of.  Now if you are going to be going to majors and spending the money to travel and shoot then you'll need to figure out the backup gun situation.  Once you go for the Atlas, a plastic 2011 is not going to be nearly as good or feel the same.

 

The TSO is a phenomenal firearm and I don't see a problem with ever finding that you would be limited by the gun.  For the price you can get setup with 2 of them for what you would spend on one Atlas.  Now you have your backup/training gun and a match gun.  Magazines are much less finicky and they run out of the box.    

 

 

 

I second this. If you have the money, go with the Atlas, or whichever custom 2011 is the must-have next month. 

 

As a side note, I will never understand the cost/performance ratio of 2011 mags. At over $100 each, they should run non-stop straight out of the box. 

[Hi-Power Jack]

On 8/8/2019 at 11:49 AM, Sean_ht said:

  guide me on a handgun limited 

1- CZ TS orange, 2- EAA (Tanfoglio) Limited Custom Xtreme, 3- RIA pro Match with HCG package, and 4- Atlas Titan.

 if you have any other suggestion beyond the four handgun I mentioned, I  appreciate your thoughts.

 

 

You don't mention what platform you are used to shooting ?

 

What gun(s) do you have lying around, now ?

 

I always suggest starting with what you have, if it is at all practical.

 

If you have shot Glocks all your life, I'd suggest a Glock.

 

If you have shot 1911's all your life, I'd suggest a 2011.

 

If you have shot CZ's, I'd stick with the CZ / EAA's.

[IHAVEGAS]

My choice was the TSO. I've owned 4 2011's and shot friends SV 2011's and for me the TSO was just a better gun. Ready to shoot out of the box (although you will want to Dremel the mag opening) accurate enough for 20 yard head box alphas with the first ammo I threw at it, fit my grip better than a 2011 (that is a personal thing - no idea which would fit you) and was 100% reliable. 

 

You need to find what works for you but as far as performance goes I don't think the TSO is beatable at any price point (after you dremel the mag opening). The base model TS looks like butt in my opinion but if you have big hands and want to save $'s it is another budget gun that is good enough to win world championships. 

[Sean_ht]

I've shot 1911 at the SS division. I shoot EAA (stock III Xtreme) at production and CZ (Czechmate) at the open divisions.  While I really like G34, I found the weight balance of EAA is in my advantage when I reacquire the target.

 

I checked a STI before, but did not shoot with it. While it is a well made handgun (obviously), the grip is a bit too big (or at least it was my first expression).

 

I added the 2011 platform to my list because I wonder when shooting major, the design provides extra advantages. To the extend that it compensates the price difference. I guess Atlas titan with the optional small trigger, could potentially solve my issue with the grip size of 2011.

 

Thank you guys for the feedback. I've decided to buy a TSO 40. 

 

[zzt]

I have a CZ TS 40 and a couple of 2011 40s.  I decided to shoot Limited several years ago and didn't have time to build a custom 2011.  Several friends at the club owned TS in 9 and 40.  I shot the IPSC (predecessor to the TS) and several TS guns.  All of them ran 100%.  So I bought one, a fourth mag and four CZC extended base pads.  For about $1500 I had a ready to go setup for USPSA and I didn't have to do a thing to it.

 

There are advantages to the TS/TSO over a 2011.  The slide is lower so your sight radius is closer to the bore axis.  The bore axis is lower in your hand so the recoil is more straight back and the front sight does not rise as much.  You can load to 1.126" OAL and use less powder.  My major load was 3.7gr e3 under a 180 plated for 172PF.  You can drop the mags on stone or gravel and you won't hurt them.  After three+ years of dropping mags on all kinds of surfaces, I've only had to tweak the feed lips on one mag once.  Unless you are spending $130+ on a 2011 mag, you cannot say that.

 

The disadvantages of the TS/TSO are the limited number of customization options.  You basically have four firms to go to.  That being said, I ran mine stock for 2.5 years without a hiccup.  I only decided to customize it because I felt like it.  Replacement parts are readily available.

 

Disadvantages of a 2011 are the opposite of the advantages of the TS/TSO.  The slide is larger, heavier and higher.  Muzzle flip and recoil is greater with the same load.  You have a bajillion choices of parts and customization with a 2011.

 

In my opinion, the TSO upgraded to 20 round mags is the better Limited gun, but not by enough that I'd say no to a good 2011.  I'm not trying to talk you into either.  I have both and none of them are going anywhere.  I can say that if my eyes were still good enough to shoot Limited again, I'd be using my customized TS; not one of the 2011s.

 

Now, to throw more confusion into the picture.  If you decide you no longer want to shoot Limited, because of eyes or other reasons, and want to move to Open, a 2011 is your choice.  Yes the TSO can be converted to an Open gun.  I've done that and decided the compromises were not for me.  One of my Open guns is a converted 2011 40sw Limited gun.  You really only need a barrel swap, comp and a little slide work to convert.  Since I own both, I can tell you that 40sw Open is way easier to load to major and a lot softer shooting than 9mm major.

 

I think you should go to a range and see if you can handle and shoot both.  Then make your decision.

[tdp88]

I don't think there is a huge advantage to the 2011 over a limited Tanfo or CZ but I would get the Atlas if money isn't a consideration. If you're price sensitive at all then Tanfo Limited is the way to go. The only disadvantage of the 2011 is tuning and maintaining mags. There really isn't a downside to a Tanfo Limited but I prefer the 2011 platform. 

[Brooke]

I have not found mag tuning to be an issue with Atlas 2011's. I worried about that because the mags are expensive and the endless internet chatter about tuning is scary. Atlas sells mags that are tuned to your gun. The price is the same as buying the same mag elsewhere with out tuning.

 

You can find numerous posts on this forum and others from users who have been using the same mags literally for years without any issues whatsoever. I can't claim years of use but I can say that I have never an issue with a mag that worked when received. I think the mag tuning issue is a lot of BS. 

 

I have owned and used extensively more than 10 CZ 75 Shadows and Shadow 2's. Every one was a good gun. I like them and still use them some. I often wondered if the 1911/2011 hype was real or just some figment of certain people's imagination. 

 

I got the bug to try 2011's for myself. I bought 3 Atlas Nemesis's in a short time, one in 9mm and 2 in 40. I sold the 9 because I found no use for it although I understand that in 3 Gun it may be the best choice. I have nothing against my CZ's but I would never go back to using them as my primary platform. I found the 2011 hype to be real. The guns are a mechanical pleasure to shoot and their weight aids in minimizing flip. The triggers are something you can't get in any pivoting trigger no matter how good. 

 

Everyone should do what they wish and what their budget allows. But unless you don't want to get locked into 1911/2011 platforms don't shoot one. The darn things are addictive. 

Edited August 15, 2019 by Brooke

[IHAVEGAS]

5 hours ago, Brooke said:

I think the mag tuning issue is a lot of BS. 

 

My 9mm STI Eagle was terrible about FTF's before I bought Dawson's mag tuning kit & fixed the mag problems. A buddy had exactly the same luck. 

 

My 40's (Eagle, Edge, Bennie Hill) would start to get flaky toward the end of a shooting season after mags saw a good bit of hard use & probably being stepped on once or twice, using the mag tuning kit annually seemed to make that concern invalid as well.

 

A lot of what you get with the mag tuning kit is knowledge (lip spread in back, lip taper to front, where and what to file, mag body dimensions, etc). 

 

 

Edited August 15, 2019 by IHAVEGAS

[zzt]

I think when you bought your Gen1 STI mags may have a lot to do with how well they stay tuned.  I've owned five STI mags in 126, 140.  None of them would survive dropping several times without an adjustment.  My four SVI Gen1 mags got adjusted once and stayed that way.  My MBX mags needed no adjustment, even after two seasons of getting dropped on all kinds of surfaces.

[IHAVEGAS]

4 hours ago, zzt said:

I think when you bought your Gen1 STI mags may have a lot to do with how well they stay tuned. 

 

Seems reasonable.