Apex 5" confusion

[RobfromME]

Good morning, 

 

 

I'm considering an Apex 5" barrel for my M&P 9mm.  Folks here on the forum seem to like the gunsmith fit barrel best, but it appears only the conversion barrel and one of the threaded barrels are gunsmith fit, the remainder are semi fit.

Was there once a 5" barrel that was gunsmith fit, or when I see gunsmith fit mentioned it's referring to the semi fit barrel?

 

Thank you in advance for any help!

 

All my best, 

Rob

Edited July 17, 2019 by RobfromME
Typos fixed.

[saab]

I don’t know what kind of accuracy you are looking for but my semi fit for the pro shoots 1-1.5” at 25yds all day...

[MemphisMechanic]

When they first came out you had the Semi-drop in (SDI) and the gunsmith barrels.

 

SDI barrels work in the vast majority of guns. I fit one to mine and it tightened groups from 8” to 2.5” without any load development to optimize ammo to barrel.

 

Sometimes one is very, very far out and needs the gunsmith fit barrel. This one has a great deal more material on the pads that need trimmed to fit, and is intended to be fitted with a milling machine.

 

The SDI is much closer to dropping in and can be fit with files and patience by hand.

[RobfromME]

Good morning, guys!

 

Thanks!!  Saab,  I would be thrilled with groups twice that size!  (Which I can't shoot anyway! )  I wasn't sure which barrel was the one folks were using that they were happy with, but it sounds like the currently made semi-gunsmith fit will be perfect once it is available.

 

MemphisMechanic, thanks for the info!  I was wondering if that was the case, since I did notice Brownells showed a gunsmith fit barrel that was 5" and not threaded, but it said discontinued.  Hopefully mine is one of the not too far out ones....but then again, if I didn't have bad luck, I wouldn't have any luck at all!  Once they are available again, I'll order one up.  I've fitted a few 1911 barrels, and this seems to be a bit easier except for the muzzle end where I'd have to remove material only in two spots.  The 1911 is easier for a guy like me because I can just measure my barrel and order a bushing of the right ID., and turn the outside down.  We'll see how it goes!

 

Thanks so much for the info and taking the time to share it, guys.  Very much appreciated.

 

All my best,

Rob

[mpom]

With latest version I did not need to remove any material from muzzle end of barrel, only trim the part contacting breech face and the pad contacting locking block. 

After fitting 1911 barrels, thisbwill be a walk in the park for you, just watch the videos by Apex. They recommend a hard fit, where initially you need a few lbs of pressure on rear of slide to complete return to battery. Slide closes fine during live fire.

[steveac1]

On 7/17/2019 at 11:00 AM, mpom said:

With latest version I did not need to remove any material from muzzle end of barrel, only trim the part contacting breech face and the pad contacting locking block. 

After fitting 1911 barrels, thisbwill be a walk in the park for you, just watch the videos by Apex. They recommend a hard fit, where initially you need a few lbs of pressure on rear of slide to complete return to battery. Slide closes fine during live fire.

This is exactly how my gunsmith fit barrel was set up.  (2016 ish 5" 9mm Apex Gunsmith fit barrel) It's tight and needs a bit of a push on the rear of the slide to get into battery.  She shoots clover leaves if I do my part.

[M1A4ME]

I seems the M&P's are pretty variable in fit/tolerances.  Work necessary to fit a barrel on one won't be required on the next pistol right beside it on the shelf.

 

For mine, I only had to remove metal from the rear where the two tabs contact the slide.  Slow/steady with lots of wiping/checking before I finished up.

 

Made a big difference in the groups.  It seems to especially like the Winchester 124 grian FMJ Nato ammo.

 

For what it's worth, on my 5" 2.0 FDE the Apex barrel made a much bigger improvement in the group size than the Apex trigger set up.  I like the trigger a lot, super nice, but the barrel had a bigger effect on shrinking the groups, for me.

[anachronism]

On 7/17/2019 at 9:34 AM, RobfromME said:

 I was wondering if that was the case, since I did notice Brownells showed a gunsmith fit barrel that was 5" and not threaded, but it said discontinued. 

 

Check out the barrels manufacturer. Just because Brownells discontinued it doesn't mean that the manufacturer did too. Or the mfg may have a couple of them left.

[RobfromME]

Thanks, everyone!  Much appreciated. 

 

Anachronism, that's a good suggestion...thanks!  I did just check but it seems only a conversion barrel and a threaded barrel are gunsmith fit.

 

Based on the comments and help here, the semi-drop in will be great!

 

Thanks, everyone.   I appreciate the input and the time you took to help me!

 

All my best,

Rob

[pwsmkaz]

I have the gunsmith fit 5" apex barrel it was quiet and improvement over the stock barrel grouping wise. It cost me a lot more to get it fitted locally. I'm not sure there was much advantage over a semi drop in. 

[RobfromME]

Good morning,

 

I purchased the Apex Semi drop in, and was quite pleased that I didn't have to mess with the front of the barrel.  Only had to fit the hood and as you state, mpom, it was a walk in the park.

 

It certainly shoots much better now.  I suspect that had the pad needed a bit of filing, it would have been even better, but I'm extremely happy with the results.  Now, off to get a new front sight!

 

Thanks to everyone for the input.  I'm glad I kept it and put the barrel in rather than buying a 5" bbl M2.0.

[K-Tex]

I have the Apex 5" for v1 core on a 4.25" slide semi fit I did myself (I'm not a gunsmith).   Yes it is a threaded barrel 1/10 twist.   Use a fine file and/or some emery cloth and a marker for contact knowing where too remove metal.   It runs great and never had an issue.   Shoot it regularly out too 100 yards and mag dump on a silhouette size 500 ar steel.

[Drillbit]

Well, I just installed an M1 Apex Grade "Semi Drop In Barrel" and at this point, I'm not seeing any or no improvement.  

I purchased the jig for the fitting process, and the outcome was as described in their video.

I shot 10 rds of my hand loads of 115gr fmj bullets from Extreme in the stock barrel, and 15 rounds of factory Federal 115 fmj aluminum case.  I shot the same rounds in the Apex barrel with no real improvement.

Now I'm wondering if the 1in10 twist rate my like a heavier bullet.

Ideas?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited October 26, 2021 by Drillbit

[mpom]

What were the group sizes and at what distance? Were you shooting offhand or from a rest? Have you shot other pistols and obtained great accuracy?

Not being critical, but makes sense to get a baseline of your shooting ability before passing judgement on the accuracy of the barrel, since the shooter is part of the equation, along w the ammo.

 

Mark

[K-Tex]

6 hours ago, Drillbit said:

Well, I just installed an M1 Apex Grade "Semi Drop In Barrel" and at this point, I'm not seeing any or no improvement.  

I purchased the jig for the fitting process, and the outcome was as described in their video.

I shot 10 rds of my hand loads of 115gr fmj bullets from Extreme in the stock barrel, and 15 rounds of factory Federal 115 fmj aluminum case.  I shot the same rounds in the Apex barrel with no real improvement.

Now I'm wondering if the 1in10 twist rate my like a heavier bullet.

Ideas?

 

 

 

 

 

 

Let me know, because I have 1 like it.   I haven't shot any thing heavier than 124gr or in rested when testing for accuracy.  I'll try too post for inquiring minds when I have some time?   It does stay locked longer than the factory barrel.

[Drillbit]

17 hours ago, mpom said:

What were the group sizes and at what distance? Were you shooting offhand or from a rest? Have you shot other pistols and obtained great accuracy?

Not being critical, but makes sense to get a baseline of your shooting ability before passing judgement on the accuracy of the barrel, since the shooter is part of the equation, along w the ammo.

 

Mark

I shot from a rest with a red dot sight at 20 yds. Group size was about 2 1/4", same as the stock barrel.  As far as my abilities, I suppose some of the group size could have been me.  But if you have ever shot a handgun from a rest with a red dot, well, it's like cheating.  So I'm going to say "no improvement."  

Edited October 27, 2021 by Drillbit

[Drillbit]

12 hours ago, K-Tex said:

Let me know, because I have 1 like it.   I haven't shot any thing heavier than 124gr or in rested when testing for accuracy.  I'll try too post for inquiring minds when I have some time?   It does stay locked longer than the factory barrel.

I did not notice a longer lock time.  I'm not sure how you could. 

[K-Tex]

7 hours ago, Drillbit said:

I did not notice a longer lock time.  I'm not sure how you could. 

If you install the factory barrel and slowly push back on the slide then note the distance it moves before the barrel starts too move.   With the apex installed the slide moved further rearward before the barrel moved.   Shooting there is no way for me too actually feel/know the difference.   That is my reference to actually seeing longer lock time.   When I have time I'll do some measuring, but will not be able too post pics as for I try to reduce size/pixels for small MB file.

[Drillbit]

17 hours ago, K-Tex said:

If you install the factory barrel and slowly push back on the slide then note the distance it moves before the barrel starts too move.   With the apex installed the slide moved further rearward before the barrel moved.   Shooting there is no way for me too actually feel/know the difference.   That is my reference to actually seeing longer lock time.   When I have time I'll do some measuring, but will not be able too post pics as for I try to reduce size/pixels for small MB file.

Interesting. I'm going to try that and see, thanks.

[mpom]

Apex claims their research, conducted years ago before there was a 2.0 series, showed that the relatively early dropping of the M&P barrel breech and slow rifling twist rate led to the poor accuracy people complained about. Their barrels have a longer bottom shelf that keeps breech level longer before dropping during slide movement to rear.

As far as accuracy, 2.25" at 20 yards is not bad for a factory barrel, in my limited experience, which includes M&Ps and Glocks. I would not have bought an Apex barrel if my 1.0 5" achieved that. Would not be surprised if you could do better w either high end ammo such as Gold Dot or hand loads tuned to the Apex barrel.

 

Mark

[NETim]

I tossed in Apex barrels mostly to comply with CO rules which forbid ported barrels.  I know my M&P's are very accurate shooters. 

 

I wish I was.    

[K-Tex]

20 minutes ago, NETim said:

I tossed in Apex barrels mostly to comply with CO rules which forbid ported barrels.  I know my M&P's are very accurate shooters. 

 

I wish I was.    

 

1 hour ago, mpom said:

Apex claims their research, conducted years ago before there was a 2.0 series, showed that the relatively early dropping of the M&P barrel breech and slow rifling twist rate led to the poor accuracy people complained about. Their barrels have a longer bottom shelf that keeps breech level longer before dropping during slide movement to rear.

As far as accuracy, 2.25" at 20 yards is not bad for a factory barrel, in my limited experience, which includes M&Ps and Glocks. I would not have bought an Apex barrel if my 1.0 5" achieved that. Would not be surprised if you could do better w either high end ammo such as Gold Dot or hand loads tuned to the Apex barrel.

 

Mark

I didn't notice anything on how the lock time was longer, only how apex said too check length of lock.   Glad for the posting of that info!

[Drillbit]

On 10/28/2021 at 4:51 PM, mpom said:

Apex claims their research, conducted years ago before there was a 2.0 series, showed that the relatively early dropping of the M&P barrel breech and slow rifling twist rate led to the poor accuracy people complained about. Their barrels have a longer bottom shelf that keeps breech level longer before dropping during slide movement to rear.

As far as accuracy, 2.25" at 20 yards is not bad for a factory barrel, in my limited experience, which includes M&Ps and Glocks. I would not have bought an Apex barrel if my 1.0 5" achieved that. Would not be surprised if you could do better w either high end ammo such as Gold Dot or hand loads tuned to the Apex barrel.

 

Mark

I was using hand loads. 'm going to try some different loadings to see if I can improve on it. 

 

[Drillbit]

 I got a pic of how far the slid moves before unlocking.  It starts lo unlock immediately after this point.... Very interesting.

I have also found the chamber to be very tight. New ammo drops right in, not much with reloads.

This is a bit disappointing, I can't afford to shoot new ammo.

 

 

[MemphisMechanic]

@Drillbit I always found the short chamber of the Apex match grade barrels surprising, since they’re aimed at competition shooters.

 

Needless to say, I’ve reamed a lot of them over the years for myself and other guys to be able to load ammo to 1.130-1.60” lengths.