sfinney Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 Ok, you hear alot about Open Glocks in 9 major now, has anyone tried an Open Springfield XD - 4 or 5" ? With Canyon Creek's trigger job, a milled in Docter sight, good barrel and comp, seems like might work pretty well.... especialy for someone used to shooting a tuned XD in Prod or Lim-10. Big question though - I know they use basically Beretta mags with new mag release notches cut, what available mags would be the ticket for 140mm and especially "big stick" 170mm 9mm mags, springs, followers, etc? Does anyone make + basepads for the Xd tubes, or similar? Any pics of completed Open XD guns would be nice to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harmon Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 i think it would be neat to try, but would be plagued by the same thing the small framed P9s have, lower mag capacity...not sure it matters much, as long as you can get at least 22 rounds... and have a magwell.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcb Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 Hmmm... Given the dimensions of the magazine tubes for the XD family you would have to shoot minor or 9mm Major to have the possibility of competitive capacity. I'm not sure if the XD would hold up to the extra abuse of the 9mm Major but it probably would. I played with making some + capacity base pads for my XD-40 and while staying in the 140 mm magazine length I could get only 15 40S&W round in them. The magazines are really meant for 9mm cartridges and do not efficiently pack larger caliber rounds. When I loaded the magazine with 9mm I could 21 rounds in the magazine using the stock 40 S&W magazine tube spring and follower. Twenty-six rounds should be possible with 170mm maybe more with new springs and followers. There are two or three companies making magazine wells for the XD. The one compatible with the stock base pads are not great, made of plastic and not real sturdy. Barsto's aluminum one looks nice but it requires the use of their magazine base pads so it gets a bit expensive quickly if you have a lot of magazines and they don't add capacity. I have pretty much decided to just make my XD-40 a dedicated Limited-10 gun. I made my only extended (no added capacity) basepads and magazine well and changed the recoil spring and guild rod. I’m thinking about a trigger job this winter. mcb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kimberkid Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 I know a gunsmith that was going to attempt this, though I dont know if it ever came to much fruitition. I'll tell him bout this thread and see if he has any info for ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schutzenmeister Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 XD Open? I can't imagine for the life of me why one would want to. The XD appears to be an excellent Production and Limited gun ... but Open? ... Sounds like someone trying to prove it CAN be done. That's not a good enough reason for me to choose a platform. JMHO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinney Posted September 12, 2005 Author Share Posted September 12, 2005 Ok, master of the obvious , of course there are better guns to build for Open. I didn't intend this to be a "should I build an XD open gun thread", or compare it to other more viable platforms. Obviously its not the prefered platform for an open gun. But is it doable? A few years ago, most people didn't acknowledge a Glock could be a competitive Open gun. Its just for discussion sake, looking for ideas or experience anyone may have on this topic, whether or not it actually gets built is irrevelent to me at this point. Lets leave at that, please. (And in case you're wondering, I do have an SV open gun already, thank you.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 I think that you could make any gun an open gun. Whether it is competitive is about the only point, so I guess I'm missing something. I've seen enough open Glocks to know you can make a $500 pistol a $2000+ pistol. With as many used SVI/STI/Caspian open guns for sale you could pick up one that is more appropriate for the same cost Maybe I'm just missing the point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinney Posted September 12, 2005 Author Share Posted September 12, 2005 Ok, if you need a point..... What if you shoot an XD in Prod, and some Lim-10.... you really like the ergonomics of an XD. You don't really want to switch to a 1911 based gun, but you'd like to try Open, on a platform you're familiar with (maybe you even have a spare 9mm XD laying around). Ok, to try out open, and stay with the familiar, lets build an XD Open gun. Try to make it competitve as possible, and not necessarily on a shoe string budget. J-point or Docter, custom comp and barrel, nice trigger, textured/shaped grip, magwell, etc. Maybe if we were more open to building up more Glocks and guns like an XD into open guns, instead of saying "if its not an S_I, why bother?", we'd attract more Prod and Lim/Lim-10 shooters to Open. Back on topic, will an XD hold up to high volume shooting of Major 9? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 Got it. ... the dark side calleth... I guess my point was that by the time you build them up (Mods would most likely be one off's) they would cost about the same as guns that are made for the wear and tear of major, and for which you can buy parts. XD's are throw away guns in my opinion, especially since Springfield is refusing to sell parts for them (not second hand knowledge.) I have two of them and like them a lot, but making them into an open gun when you can't buy parts from them would be a huge drawback. I'm all for inovation, it would sure be neat, but parts break and if you can't have spares, well... I would love to see some tricked out ones! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Meek Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 Slight thread drift..... I have a Taurus 99 with a Bar-Sto Barrel and single chamber comp.... this was put together back in 1988. Didn't plan on shooting Major with it but at the time I was only starting into the game. I even modified the trigger bar so it was a single action only. I don't see any problem when somebody decides to step outside of the box to try something, hell we all might even learn a thing or two along the way, S_I fill the role of _______ (Insert your favorite Automotive Accesories Catalog). There are so many add-ons available that nobody thinks about other alternatives. Yes there are things that are tried and true, yet I remember when the local shooter that showed up with his Para-ordance gunsmith kit .45 was the novelty. And then there were that Para-Ordance .38 Supers that started showing up. Yet people were still shooting Single Stacks by the lopsided margin. So if anyone desires to build up any gun as an open gun I welcome their effort. Who knows what road they might take us down. Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 Don't see any reason why it wouldn't hold up...most will depend on the effectiveness of the compensation system and the design of the barrel lugs as it meets the frame/slidestop. the Springfield p9 and CZ are supposedly weak in design where the lower barrel lug meets the slidestop..yet I had a P9 hold up to two years of constant shooting at the 175PF shooting 115s There a few examples of Bruce Gray getting a P7M13 to shoot 9mm major and now several examples of Glocks..the only real issue is you need a smith that is willing to tread new ground and you need to be willing to be a test case..as this might be a one-off project.. sounds fun.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schutzenmeister Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 A few years ago, most people didn't acknowledge a Glock could be a competitive Open gun. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> No hostilities intended ... I just wasn't sure why anyone would want to go Open on an XD platform. By the way ... Unless I'm mistaken, Glock USA has been having problems getting their guns to run reliably in Open. Hence Julie Goloski continues to shoot Production and Limited. Unless I'm mistaken, she'd prefer to go back to Open, but as she works for Glock she kind of needs to have one that's reliable enough to use. (I may be misinformed on the Glock, I admit ... but that's my understanding.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HANDGUNNER Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 We have built 3 Different R&D XD Open guns, A 4in 9mm with a frame mounted optic (modified caver mount) and our R&D Comp, A 4in 9mm with a docter & Comp,and a 5in 40 with docter & 7 port EDM ported barrel. We have got the mags up to 20+1 in 9mm and 15 +1 in 40 capactity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zhunter Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 We have got the mags up to 20+1 in 9mm and 15 +1 in 40 capactity. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> But that is not competitive in Open Class Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Meek Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 Tom, Any Pics?? Thanks Alan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 photos would be great.... love experimentation... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 By the way ... Unless I'm mistaken, Glock USA has been having problems getting their guns to run reliably in Open. Hence Julie Goloski continues to shoot Production and Limited. Unless I'm mistaken, she'd prefer to go back to Open, but as she works for Glock she kind of needs to have one that's reliable enough to use. (I may be misinformed on the Glock, I admit ... but that's my understanding.) <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Julie shot a 9x21 Open Glock at the Steel Challenge last year and had a little trouble with it but I'm not sure that's the only reason.. Glock surely has the technical folks that could surely make it run were that a corporate priority. On the topic of non-1911 Open guns, I was favorably impressed with the new CZ open guns at the WS-- Steel frame, longish dust cover from I think, the SP01. Felt good, seemed to run well, so long as the mags worked, though I didn't get to shoot one. Smaller grip for the small-handed. Could be worth a look if any make it here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eerw Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 On the topic of non-1911 Open guns, I was favorably impressed with the new CZ open guns at the WS-- Steel frame, longish dust cover from I think, the SP01. Felt good, seemed to run well, so long as the mags worked, though I didn't get to shoot one. Smaller grip for the small-handed. Could be interesting if any show up here. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Shred..any photos of these guns...would love to figure where to get one or build one.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 On the topic of non-1911 Open guns, I was favorably impressed with the new CZ open guns at the WS-- Steel frame, longish dust cover from I think, the SP01. Felt good, seemed to run well, so long as the mags worked, though I didn't get to shoot one. Smaller grip for the small-handed. Could be interesting if any show up here. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Shred..any photos of these guns...would love to figure where to get one or build one.. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Well, there's this.. http://www.uspsa-photos.org/gallery/album1...Day5_037?full=1 Find the ugly guy in the middle, pan down and right. Other directions may lead to distraction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 http://www.uspsa-photos.org/gallery/album1...Day5_037?full=1[/url]Find the ugly guy in the middle, pan down and right. Other directions may lead to distraction. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I want one Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinney Posted September 12, 2005 Author Share Posted September 12, 2005 http://www.uspsa-photos.org/gallery/album1...Day5_037?full=1[/url]Find the ugly guy in the middle, pan down and right. Other directions may lead to distraction. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I want one <{POST_SNAPBACK}> oh, you mean a gun.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sfinney Posted September 12, 2005 Author Share Posted September 12, 2005 Tom, do you have any pics of the open guns? What base pads are you putting on the mags to get 20 rds..... and as has been pointed out, without a viable 23/24 round mag (or more), not really that competitive..... maybe some of those huge 30 round Beretta mags, shortened to 170mm and add a base pad? Or weld up 2 XD mags? Hmmm. Yup, this is more a creativity exercise, by the time you crunch the figures, better off buying a used Open gun off somebody. But it WOULD be fun to try one..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted September 12, 2005 Share Posted September 12, 2005 oh, you mean a gun.... <{POST_SNAPBACK}> ... the gun would be nice too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric nielsen Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 (edited) sfinney If the idea of building an Open XD sounds like fun to you, I can almost guarantee that actually building it & owning it will BE fun for you. If your only goal [and it's a good goal, extremely common] is to develop skills to the GM level and put these skills on display near 100% of what you can do, every match, then for sure, a used STI or SV or even Caspian or Para would be a better bet. The reason is the trigger. I've owned many types of semiauto and IMHO for Limited or Open class there's only 2 trigger systems to pick from and be "state-of-the-art" and those are the 1911 trigger and the TZ/CZ/Witness trigger. Others can be *close-but-no-cigar* and we should be happy about them - a few years ago NO ONE could get a Glock or XD or DA-CZ or Para LDA trigger to be nearly as good as the 1911. Now some great gunsmiths have closed the distance, but there's still a gap there. On the other hand... Some guys have hands and arms that don't conform very well to the widebody 1911s and need to make compromises in their stance or technique to grab the gun and point it at the target. It's not natural. Maybe our priorities can't always allow 14-21 hours a week of dryfire/livefire practice and a different gun [say, a Glock] will pop into our hand and feel natural & let us be more efficient with our limited practice. Maybe a different gun is lighter or balances different and that helps us. I dropped about $1600 total into a Glock & mags - it shoots fast, shoots 1/2" groups @25y, gets on target without a lot of effort or 'retraining' on my part. I don't regret it. If you really enjoy the XD and have money to spend I'd say have at it & have fun. PS - Don't be surprised if groups of strangers walk up to you & say, "We wanna see your Open XD." Kind of cool, really. Edited September 13, 2005 by eric nielsen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted September 13, 2005 Share Posted September 13, 2005 The reason is the trigger. I've owned many types of semiauto and IMHO for Limited or Open class there's only 2 trigger systems to pick from and be "state-of-the-art" and those are the 1911 trigger and the TZ/CZ/Witness trigger. Methinks you haven't seen a good xd trigger then XD clip One of the reasons I really like the XD is the trigger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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